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UTC 21 : 10 23. Apr 2024
CEST 23 : 10 23. Apr 2024
PDT 14 : 10 23. Apr 2024
EDT 17 : 10 23. Apr 2024
Accumulate Marni's Realm-Time up to 3hrs (similar to Agris-Fever System)
04. Nov 2022, 11:45 (UTC)
4055 65
1 2 3 4 5 ... 7
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Nov 2022, 16:04 (UTC)
# 11
On: Nov 4, 2022, 15:53 (UTC), Written by Findubar

The number of people who kill on sight is very low. It's safe to assume that everybody in this game has better gear than you.  The new players have other bigger hurdles to overcome if they decide to keep playing the game or not. Without the player interactions in the open world this is just a subpar singleplayer game. 

Well even on 278K AP i get KoS often like 30% of the encounters. Especially on HP-Pot places, they just invade your roation, pk you and take the spot.  They even pk'ed my girl(weaker than me) running near mashaums right behind me and i was able to kill him right after.  Im here on EU servers.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Nov 2022, 16:28 (UTC)
# 12
On: Nov 4, 2022, 16:04 (UTC), Written by Steifan

Well even on 278K AP i get KoS often like 30% of the encounters. Especially on HP-Pot places, they just invade your roation, pk you and take the spot.  They even pk'ed my girl(weaker than me) running near mashaums right behind me and i was able to kill him right after.  Im here on EU servers.

Works as intended it seems. See, you have a cool story to tell now, of how they killed your girl and how you avenged her. Without these interactions there would just be "i ran in circles for 3 hours doing my mathematically corect grinding". New players and players in general have much bigger issues with this game than just "oh noes i've been pk'd". The same people who pk'd you, stand to gain even more from unintrerupted grinding. So go out there and cripple them to the best of your abbilities. Just as the game intended.   

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Nov 2022, 18:29 (UTC)
# 13
On: Nov 4, 2022, 16:28 (UTC), Written by Findubar

Works as intended it seems. See, you have a cool story to tell now, of how they killed your girl and how you avenged her. Without these interactions there would just be "i ran in circles for 3 hours doing my mathematically corect grinding". New players and players in general have much bigger issues with this game than just "oh noes i've been pk'd". The same people who pk'd you, stand to gain even more from unintrerupted grinding. So go out there and cripple them to the best of your abbilities. Just as the game intended.   

Besides ur effot of ignoring the suggestion you are saying max gear players constantly farming newbies with Naru or weak Tuvala gear in beginner spots is completely "intended"?

If there are high gear player preventing new players from playing the game, they get frustrated and eventually leave. If we want to attract new players we should avoid ruining their Game-Experience. 

I never said there is an issue with strong people having 3 hrs marni, it should accumulate for every player up to 3 hrs for people that cant play a day or two and dont miss out. 

If a players uses it every day, there is no benefit, as its already stated, similar to Agris. 

My personal experience was just an example of how aggressive KoS can be in this game (since u said it "rarely occurs")

Since u missinterpreted my explanation and experience as some kind of personal-hero story  i will TL;DR it again:  

Make Marni's Realm same mechanic as Agris Fever:

Agris works as following, you have a Max Amount u can Accumulate, you regen X Amount of Agris each day. If u dont play X days your Agris overflows and you waste Agris Fever Points. If we project the mechanics to Marni's Realm, if a Player uses his Marni's Realm every day there would be no change.

Only when a Player has to take care of something in reallife and thus cant play, he will lose todays Marni's Realm. 

The suggestion now is, to let Marni's Realm stack up to 3hrs or 2days of not playing without overfilling/wasting it. This serves any Player that was unable to grind due to any Reallife circumstances and will have accumulate it for up to 3 days to make up for it again. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Nov 2022, 18:46 (UTC)
# 14
On: Nov 4, 2022, 18:06 (UTC), Written by Steifan

Besides ur effot of ignoring the suggestion you are saying max gear players constantly farming newbies with Naru or weak Tuvala gear in beginner spots is completely "intended"?

If there are high gear player preventing new players from playing the game, they get frustrated and eventually leave. If we want to attract new players we should avoid ruining their Game-Experience. 

I never said there is an issue with strong people having 3 hrs marni, it should accumulate for every player up to 3 hrs for people that cant play a day or two and dont miss out. 

If a players uses it every day, there is no benefit, as its already stated, similar to Agris. 

My personal experience was just an example of how aggressive KoS can be in this game (since u said it "rarely occurs")

Since u missinterpreted my explanation and experience as some kind of personal-hero story  i will TL;DR it again:  

Make Marni's Realm same mechanic as Agris Fever:

Agris works as following, you have a Max Amount u can Accumulate, you regen X Amount of Agris each day. If u dont play X days your Agris overflows and you waste Agris Fever Points. If we project the mechanics to Marni's Realm, if a Player uses his Marni's Realm every day there would be no change.

Only when a Player has to take care of something in reallife and thus cant play, he will lose todays Marni's Realm. 

The suggestion now is, to let Marni's Realm stack up to 3hrs or 2days of not playing without overfilling/wasting it. This serves any Player that was unable to grind due to any Reallife circumstances and will have accumulate it for up to 3 days to make up for it again. 

Exactly. And at 278 ap you're not exactly geared either. It's no big deal if you miss a day in bdo. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Nov 2022, 19:00 (UTC)
# 15
On: Nov 4, 2022, 12:51 (UTC), Written by Steifan

Maybe we can convince the Dev's to focus on interconnecting game mechanics with players lifes and needs instead of forcing a 1 way rule.

 This shouldnt be a buff to Marni for everyone, but rather not punish ppl for not playing for a day or two. 
Also for new players this would be a welcome change, they can assign their time grinding way better and focus on other aspects of the game.

@devs

See, new players will get wiped out of every Monster Region there is, sometimes even just on sight. Many players will just pk any player that comes near their rotation and a new players not used to enhancing system wont have similar gear nor experience. 

If they can save up to 2 or 3hrs without loss it would benefit them big time until they get to know the game mechanics. 

You perfectly illustrated the main problem here : devs gave a fully protected 1-hour grind per day, which is a nice gift to every player.

But some players will see it as "being punished" if they can't use it every day.

... No dude, you're being guaranteed a minimal progress per day, not the other way around. Before that, you had no guarantee, no matter how you see it, even if personally you can't use it every day it is a benefit, never a punishment.

... And again, some other posters will rant with the same fairy tale about players being unable to quietly progress because they are always tracked down by some overgeared players roaming in beginner's areas.

No. Nobody will believe it. Don't bother. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Nov 2022, 19:55 (UTC)
# 16

So... PKers don't want people to have safe-time for grinding because they will run out of people to PK?... Why else would you fight a suggestion that doesn't negativly effect your grinding? In fact it helps everyone, doesn't it?

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Nov 2022, 20:15 (UTC)
# 17
On: Nov 4, 2022, 19:00 (UTC), Written by Sadalsuud

You perfectly illustrated the main problem here : devs gave a fully protected 1-hour grind per day, which is a nice gift to every player.

But some players will see it as "being punished" if they can't use it every day.

... No dude, you're being guaranteed a minimal progress per day, not the other way around. Before that, you had no guarantee, no matter how you see it, even if personally you can't use it every day it is a benefit, never a punishment.

... And again, some other posters will rant with the same fairy tale about players being unable to quietly progress because they are always tracked down by some overgeared players roaming in beginner's areas.

No. Nobody will believe it. Don't bother. 

We talk about the same Arguments for Agris Fever accumulation as for Marni's Realm, they already exist for Agris Fever for similar reasons, why is it such a big Problem for Marni's Realm? Both Systems could accumulate and be used whenever the Player has time, Gaming has changed over the years and QoL has been more important than ever. 

I appreciate theese Systems and i am not in Zones with Marni's Realm, but i have friends trying out the game, or other people that get killed in Low Gear places or read in Discord etc. 

And regarding your "Fairy tale":

Do you really think there are no tagged 280+AP alts farming Skillpoints in Pollys Forest or other low-ap zones?

Or Speed-Charackters Tagged(e.g Valk as example) and speed-farming lower zones because they can 1hit the mobs, lets say Blood Wolves for pot Pieces, they will 1 shot any new player?

This is not a Fairy Tale, but rather occuring to people, and since some early Grind-Zones are really contested, a noob could just find another solution and accumulate 3hrs and enjoy a 3hr gameplay on his grind spot in a week. 

Again, this may not be trivial, nor really affect people living in end-game, but it could hugely benefit the new Adventurers first grind sessions and people that cant play every day or rely on Marni's Realm. For daily grinders and active players this would have 0 effect. Its a QoL for new players and people that play more casually. 

I would really appreciate an objective conversation with facts or objective drawbacks or concerns. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Nov 2022, 22:50 (UTC)
# 18
On: Nov 4, 2022, 20:15 (UTC), Written by Steifan

I would really appreciate an objective conversation with facts or objective drawbacks or concerns. 

I'll try.  I am on the side of being against your proposition.  First let's establish some baseline premises and objective facts. 

BDO is -- at baseline -- an MMORPG.  An MMORPG is a game that features -- to varying degrees -- Interactions between players.

Open world engagements have been -- since day 1 -- a core and main way players interact with each other.

Interactions are either a) Friendly in nature, or b) Non-friendly in nature.  This point is not a "well, it's more A than B" claim, a simple statement of objective fact.  These interactions can result in things like Diplomacy, Conversation, Banter, mutual PVP, or non-mutual PVP (PK).

As for your plight that "high geared players PK low geared" -- This results in a hefty karma penalty for the PK-er.  In BDO, the bigger the gear-gap, the bigger the karma penalty.  A player that is constantly getting farmed with low gear will ALWAYS be on the upside since, the PK-er will eventually go Red and will face harsh penalties, such as inability to enter towns without being attacked by guards, being permanently flagged for PVP so anyone can kill them at any time (no safe zone for red players other than personal residences), dying while Red can result in Jail or Crystal Loss -- Crystal Loss also opening the door to Gear Degradation (imagine a PEN with high Caphra's levels degrading to a TET with low Caphra's).

My point in the above is to illustarate that while --yes, PK can be toxic -- There are systems in check to prevent / minimize this from happening.  Furthermore, players who are being PK'd and farmed in the Open world have the upper-hand in these scenarios because the attacker will be punished while the attacked loses absolutely nothing of significance.

Players who are being PK'd in the Open World have MANY avenues to avoid these situations these days.  And may I add that these situations are FAR AND FEW nowadays.  It's lesser and lesser that Open world enagements happen now and this is BAD for the game, as a whole.  I'll get to that in a minute.  There are MANY ways to avoid OWPVP in BDO nowadays.

- Channel Swap Cooldown reduced to 10 minutes.

- Home Channels allow zero cooldown channel swaps.

- Marni's Realm guarantees 1 hour of uninterrupted grind per day in the best rotations of the best spots.

- Level 49 prevents being PK'd, so lifeskillers can lifeskill in peace.

- Things like Arena of Solare remove PVPers from the OW.

- Season Servers are PVP-free.  And this is where players in Naru and Tuvala will be -- SERVERS WHERE PVP IS DISBALED

- I can probably think of more.

There are simply so many ways to avoid unwanted PVP in BDO now, so your complaint about being PK'd is 100% beyond me.  You stated a "high geared player PK-ing a player in Naru or Tuvala" and that made me go like "wait.....what? Aren't those newbies on Season Server?"

The reason that dampened OW engagements is BAD for this MMORPG is because it reduces the amount of player interaction between players, making the game feel like a solo player experience, reduces the "risk vs reward" aspect of OW grind zones (IE: The best spots/rotations will be contested), reduces the importance and significance of gear-gains and progress (don't need gear to defend yourself because no one is around), reduces players talking to each other, working out rotations, and using social skills, and makes the game feel "dead".  All these are objectively BAD for an MMORPG -- Remember, BDO is an MMO at it's core, not solo.

BDO is largely solo with the only player-to-player interactions being Node Wars, Guild Activities, and OW engagments -- be it via Friendly or Non-friendly means -- and this game seems to be more solo as time goes on.  I've been here for over 5 years and have seen the many changes.  BDO OW is almost lifeless these days as compared to before, and this is because there's so many ways players can avoid each other now. 

So many viable grind zones, for all gear levels, now --- I remember when there were only TWO viable grind zones.  Sausan's and Pirate's.  You wouldn't survive one week in that version of BDO.

Marni's Realm.  Home Channels.  Increased Karma Penalties.  So many more.  We need as much MEANINGFUL player interaction in the open world as we can get as this makes the game more alive, exciting, and impactful -- while, of course, giving options to avoid it if one so chooses.  We have that -- I've listed SO MANY ways to avoid OW interactions with others in this MMO.  This suggestion of yours would only DECREASE meaningful OW interactions, and I cannot support that.  "MEANING" is a tough word to decribe in an MMO, but to me, "MEANINGFUL-NESS" is so important to an MMO's success and longevity.  We sink so many hours into our characters, for many people, lots of IRL money too.  This gives a huge boost in meaning, but when you remove other people from the equation and make the game more solo, that meaning fades away quickly because we play an MMORPG and an MMORPG isn't an MMORPG without it being Massive, Multiplayer, Online, and Role-Playing.

Edited for spelling.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 05. Nov 2022, 01:45 (UTC)
# 19
On: Nov 4, 2022, 22:48 (UTC), Written by PeaceInChaos

I'll try.  I am on the side of being against your proposition.  First let's establish some baseline premises and objective facts. 

BDO is -- at baseline -- an MMORPG.  An MMORPG is a game that features -- to varying degrees -- Interactions between players.

Open world engagements have been -- since day 1 -- a core and main way players interact with each other.

Interactions are either a) Friendly in nature, or b) Non-friendly in nature.  This point is not a "well, it's more A than B" claim, a simple statement of objective fact.  These interactions can result in things like Diplomacy, Conversation, Banter, mutual PVP, or non-mutual PVP (PK).

As for your plight that "high geared players PK low geared" -- This results in a hefty karma penalty for the PK-er.  In BDO, the bigger the gear-gap, the bigger the karma penalty.  A player that is constantly getting farmed with low gear will ALWAYS be on the upside since, the PK-er will eventually go Red and will face harsh penalties, such as inability to enter towns without being attacked by guards, being permanently flagged for PVP so anyone can kill them at any time (no safe zone for red players other than personal residences), dying while Red can result in Jail or Crystal Loss -- Crystal Loss also opening the door to Gear Degradation (imagine a PEN with high Caphra's levels degrading to a TET with low Caphra's).

My point in the above is to illustarate that while --yes, PK can be toxic -- There are systems in check to prevent / minimize this from happening.  Furthermore, players who are being PK'd and farmed in the Open world have the upper-hand in these scenarios because the attacker will be punished while the attacked loses absolutely nothing of significance.

Players who are being PK'd in the Open World have MANY avenues to avoid these situations these days.  And may I add that these situations are FAR AND FEW nowadays.  It's lesser and lesser that Open world enagements happen now and this is BAD for the game, as a whole.  I'll get to that in a minute.  There are MANY ways to avoid OWPVP in BDO nowadays.

- Channel Swap Cooldown reduced to 10 minutes.

- Home Channels allow zero cooldown channel swaps.

- Marni's Realm guarantees 1 hour of uninterrupted grind per day in the best rotations of the best spots.

- Level 49 prevents being PK'd, so lifeskillers can lifeskill in peace.

- Things like Arena of Solare remove PVPers from the OW.

- Season Servers are PVP-free.  And this is where players in Naru and Tuvala will be -- SERVERS WHERE PVP IS DISBALED

- I can probably think of more.

There are simply so many ways to avoid unwanted PVP in BDO now, so your complaint about being PK'd is 100% beyond me.  You stated a "high geared player PK-ing a player in Naru or Tuvala" and that made me go like "wait.....what? Aren't those newbies on Season Server?"

The reason that dampened OW engagements is BAD for this MMORPG is because it reduces the amount of player interaction between players, making the game feel like a solo player experience, reduces the "risk vs reward" aspect of OW grind zones (IE: The best spots/rotations will be contested), reduces the importance and significance of gear-gains and progress (don't need gear to defend yourself because no one is around), reduces players talking to each other, working out rotations, and using social skills, and makes the game feel "dead".  All these are objectively BAD for an MMORPG -- Remember, BDO is an MMO at it's core, not solo.

BDO is largely solo with the only player-to-player interactions being Node Wars, Guild Activities, and OW engagments -- be it via Friendly or Non-friendly means -- and this game seems to be more solo as time goes on.  I've been here for over 5 years and have seen the many changes.  BDO OW is almost lifeless these days as compared to before, and this is because there's so many ways players can avoid each other now. 

So many viable grind zones, for all gear levels, now --- I remember when there were only TWO viable grind zones.  Sausan's and Pirate's.  You wouldn't survive one week in that version of BDO.

Marni's Realm.  Home Channels.  Increased Karma Penalties.  So many more.  We need as much MEANINGFUL player interaction in the open world as we can get as this makes the game more alive, exciting, and impactful -- while, of course, giving options to avoid it if one so chooses.  We have that -- I've listed SO MANY ways to avoid OW interactions with others in this MMO.  This suggestion of yours would only DECREASE meaningful OW interactions, and I cannot support that.  "MEANING" is a tough word to decribe in an MMO, but to me, "MEANINGFUL-NESS" is so important to an MMO's success and longevity.  We sink so many hours into our characters, for many people, lots of IRL money too.  This gives a huge boost in meaning, but when you remove other people from the equation and make the game more solo, that meaning fades away quickly because we play an MMORPG and an MMORPG isn't an MMORPG without it being Massive, Multiplayer, Online, and Role-Playing.

Edited for spelling.

Yes we need to force player interaction in a game that heavily punishes all forms of player interaction, even the simply aspect of trying to group with people and work together instead punishes you. Can't image why there zero player interaction in this game, and why people wish for zero player interaction. Most likely has nothing to due with how the game punishes every single form of player interaction that exist in this game.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 05. Nov 2022, 08:31 (UTC)
# 20
On: Nov 4, 2022, 15:28 (UTC), Written by Steifan

Best case scenario for new players is, not seeing a single adventurer the first 300 hours into the game or until they have close TET BS Gear. 

Epic sentence and how true. I will say more: vast majority of BDO players (about 75% according to a survey on the old Kakao forum) do not want to meet players at all when killing mobs.

BDO offers a lot of pvp content, and that's only where pvp should exist. Pvp players kill players who do not want to pvp, and the latter are also not going to let go, so then the former complain about "karmabombing".

The solar arena proved that not only 10ap / dp more gives a colossal advantage, but also what gigantic disproportions exist between classes. This is the main argument in favor of removing open pvp from the game. Maybe not completely, but at least 50% of the channels or just giving players unlimited marni for all zones.

PA should finally understand after all these years that you will never force us pve players to pvp. If I want pvp, I run Battlefield or CSGO where I have the same chances as any other player on the map and I do not lose anything after death.

Interactions between players? They exist: world bosses, fields bosses, whale / khalk hunting, dead horse racing (why dead? because not balanced and there is no reward for everyone).

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