Hey everyone, it's been a few days and there hasn't been any replies.

I would love to hear some more feedback about this system if you believe it could work or if it doesn't work please respond on why. Already we were able to refine the idea further as a group and only a few different people responded. But if a greater variety of people reply we could perhaps push this even further.

It may or may not be an idea that gets suggested to the devs but I think it's a good compromise for those who want a lifeskill server and those who don't want one.

ヽ(^o^)ρ┳┻┳°σ(^o^)ノ

Well to be honest I upvoted your post.

However it's not because of all the criterias you proposed, I don't believe much in them. I mostly supported the possibility of lifeskilling in peace.

BUT!

There's a parameter I often mention in similar threads, the fact that in Arsha, you have a boost for lifeskilling.

Also, on normal servers, you gain better (xp and money) out of safe zones.

It's the purpose of an open pvxvp game: if you take risks, you deserve to gain more!

And I can only agree with that.

I often say it too: I fish out of safe zone, sometimes actively, sometimes afk. I earn a lot that way and serisouly, even if I'm for creating a peaceful alternative for lifeskillers, I know I won't use it much, because the logic would make those servers earn less XP and less money as there's no risk. So the same rule would apply for a dedicated lifeskiller who can play in peace.

For exemple, why would we deserve to fish yellow fishes when the whole place is safe? It's like at Heidel: you don't deserve to earn more than green fishes if you are safe.

So, if you gain less xp (and money) as a lifeskiller, I'm not sure that alternative would interest many players.

OR - and I suggest that just for the sake of argument - characters who are dedicated to lifeskill should not have the right to swap to pvp at all, neither to get upgraded skills (the higher ones of Succession or Awakening), only the normal ones to gather on ressources mobs and do lifeskill quests.

I'm sorry, it's not at all your way. I'm a lifeskiller though, and I keep my upvote on ur post because I understand what you're trying to do and it's well intended, but only toward one part of lifeskillers.

Seriously, I think PA made a great system with the most deservable players taking risks. I enjoy taking it and if I die... well I die. It's the game.

There you go, you wanted an opinion. Maybe not the one you wanted.

^ That's fine and I agree. You should be rewarded whenever there is risk. The greater the risk, the greater the reward. There's no way I could debate that since I agree wholeheartedly.

I don't mind the idea of PvPvE in an open world where no place is safe. After all, I'm a prominent supporter of Star citizen (or at least what they aim to release eventually). The design mechanics behind preventing griefing at least being proposed by them is pretty sound in theory at least. Need to deliver cargo from one planet to another? Use a super fast ship for a small bit of cargo or use a slow ship for a lot of cargo. You'll make a lot more with the big ship but you put yourself out in the open for pirates. So what do you do? You hire NPCs or players to escort you. There's also a reputation system which will eventually be enhanced but you know, this is a forever being made game where soon is always 2 years away. Can't just speak on hypotheticals now can we? :P

BDO on the other hand does not have these systems in place, and while I would love nothing more than to propose features that would work in a smiliar manner, I can't see them putting the effort into it because it's so robust and complex. It would be very expensive and who knows if they could get it to work or if the idea would work as in theory. So we have to compromise since the game is what it is.

You do mention that you think that risk comes greater reward and perhaps that's what should happen. If you don't use PvP invulnerability, perhaps your lifeskill rate could yield better goods? There has to be an incentive to lifeskill out in the open but at the same time there is zero point in horse training in the open with an incentive. We all know random PKers are going to knock you off your horse so there's no point to incensitize that. Horse training at the very least should be free from PKing. #FreeTheCities!

Perhaps I'm looking at it the wrong way, maybe your school of thought could lead to better ideas? Something worth thinking over at least :)

PS. Fishing in safe zones are usually exhausted at least for the spots that yield the better "fish" so it kinda balances itself out at the moment.

Sort of thinking out loud about the having other players escort ships thing, and how that might translate here - maybe share loot/exp if an escort parties with a group doing life skills?  For those that enjoy the PvP side, they could watch for attackers.  Or maybe they could self-organize posses to watch over trainers etc.

The problem is that the folks who do lifeskill PKs will just not engage. That's ok for the lifeskillers, but boring for the posse.  Could posses be fomed from afk player characters somehow? Where such guard duty is managed by the game, and rewarded along the lines of training dummies?

Like I said, spitballin'.  A lot of holes in this, but the idea of player created solutions emerging from use of existing game mechanics is part of the BDO way, if such a thing could be said to exist.

^ I'll spitball with you lol

I know PA owns and maintains EVE Online but I have no experience with it. If anyone here has experience in it, it would be interesting to get some insight on how escort works there. I know in SC the viability is too low right now to exist but people have complained in the official forums that it would be too boring to take part outside of important guild related deliveries (like needing parts to build a base of operations etc). Would that be too boring of a mechanic for BDO? I mean bartering doesn't pay that well to begin with, and to share the bartering bounty with escorts seems kinda less motivating, particularly with few people out at sea. If you get attacked you just swap servers (as it is).

In the spirit of the PvPvE "dream", NPCs maybe could be hired as a escort? Then again, they might get stuck somewhere (in a rock?) and stop following you lol! As it stands, I have no faith in them fixing sea content if they can't resolve the latency related issues :( Presently there's a new bug that disconnects you as you're out at sea (random). I know this is straying a bit far from the original intent of the the thread but it's always important to consider how it could impact other mechanics of the game whether they exist today or tomorrow. Sea content needs a lot of attention, maybe they could look at pirate related mmo's for influence. Attacking barterers really has no benefit for the attacker, which means they're just griefing. If you could for instance attack and have a 70% chance that the loot can be obtained, then you know, it would give purpose and meaning to actual pirates. Unfortuantely the money you get from bartering is less than the cost of buying and upgrading your ship and would take a considerable amount of time to make up the difference. Many months even.

That's kind of where my thoughts led, is that PvP would need incentivizing to draw them in, so that escorting could be worth it.  As things stand, random griefing just doesn't fit with these 'solutions'.

Kind of a prisoner's dilemma sort of thing - raising the stakes could benefit everyone, if they cooperate.  But defections have a pretty big downside.  And I have my suspicions which approach would prevail.

I have to say, I think this subject of this thread has much merit.  We don't need people having lifeskill servers, as it divides the playerbase.  The Arsha lifeskill buff makes sense.  Risk = reward.  People are going to be jerks and kill lifeskillers in normal servers.  People are going to be jerks IRL and in games.  It's life.  So, giving players an option to be immune to jerk behavior is nice, as long as it has limits.  I would prefer PKers to target people armed and ready fight, aka grinders, and in fact, I'd prefer PKers not PK.  Challenge someone to a duel, if you want to fight human players.  If they refuse, hit them.  Give them a choice to flee or fight.  Now, I also think that AFKers need some sort of protection too, but still, risk = reward.

I hate getting PKed.  I hate coming home from work, or waking up and find that my AFKer was killed.  I hate getting sniped while gathering, or grinding.  I hate it.  However, it happens once a month, at least for me.  I can live with it.  I hate jerks.  I think PKing is jerkish.  But, perfection sometimes demands certain tolerance of evil, in this imperfect world of ours. 

Reminds me of America........

To summarize where this thread is

> Lifeskillers have no means to defend themselves so a system is needed to safeguard against random PvP griefers

> Lifeskillers should not be able to grief PvPvE players (probably above level 49 mobs?)

> The community shouldn't be divided between lifeskill/PvE and PvP (as in servers/shards) instead.........>>

> Incentives should be given to players who take the greater risks

> A system should be suggested to encourage greater risk taking, perhaps with community effort to help balance it ie: player escort missions or whatever (wouldn't bounties play a role in this?)

I edited the OP to denote the current topics being discussed.

I'd like to also make the suggestion that perhaps as part of the incentive system, since we now are allowed to use Agris Fever for lifeskilling then perhaps an easy incentive could be to disable agris as you are using the PvP protection while lifeskilling? You may ask wouldn't people just stay with their level 49 characters? Yes, they could but you need to be about level 54 to move about fast. So you lose out on speed and weight carry limit which equates to silver/hr. if you remain level 49. This idea is rough but just a random thought.

PS. We are severely lacking in lifeskillers. Like the market is flooded with pre-orders but no one wants to fulfill it. I hope that the system that we can pitch to PA could be a means to get more people invovled in lifeskilling. Even I, a lifeskiller in other MMOs get discouraged at even doing it in BDO. This system wouldn't just benefit lifeskillers but the people wanting their pre-orders fulfilled. Waiting a month for 10 logs to be ordered is pretty rough LOL Plus guilds don't even build drills because nobody wants to do lifeskilling since there's little benefit to it. So hopefully this suggestion could be implemented in some form so that my logs can finally be purchased. hahahaha

I don't personally like or support this idea.

I'm more inclined to give you guys one PvE server, the opposite of Arsha, that comes with it a -10% item drop buff. -10% lifeskill exp on that server is probably appropriate as well.

Thanks for your opinion! What don't you like with the idea? I don't mind people not liking the idea responding to the thread, it is helpful with better understanding how to refine the idea. Since you say "you guys" does this mean you don't care to lifeskill? If so, I assume you think this would negatively affect you in some way?