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UTC 13 : 42 10. Sep 2024
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[Feedback] Let's talk about Elephants
02. Aug 2024, 12:09 (UTC)
2013 12
1 2
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 02. Aug 2024, 12:13 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name:  Godslinger

Region (NA/EU):  NA

Suggestions/Comments: Elephants have been in the game for a long time now, but as of late they have become the most important class in the game because of the busted way they move. Elephants can CC from miles away, and because PA's servers cannot sustain all the quick movement or number of players in one area, sometimes Elephants just randomly pop in, not to mention the infinite CC's that they dish out. The health and uptime of an elephant on capped is insane, and you end up placing 10-20 elephant traps a game just to trap one and then the enemy alliance able to snap it back away to avoid being trapped. I think Elephants are whatever for sieges because you have 100 people and not a small group of 30, but this just needs to be changed at this point.
I'm suggesting the following solutions. Maybe one fits, or maybe its a combination of a few. I'm also interested in hearing some suggestions down below as well.
Overall (This goes with every suggestion) - Remove the ability to recall elephants while they are trapped. This is simply an abuse of the game.
1. Change "Charge" to be just an ability and not a movement skill as well. The Elephants can infinitely use charge to run over opponents without any draw backs. No strategy, no care, just run into the middle of everything. The elephant should be given a sprint ability like horses have, and the charge ability should have a cool down. That way the driver needs to be strategic about where and when he or she charges an enemy.
2. Remove Elephants from the game. Yes, this may be a little extreme, but the servers are not supportive of this mechanic or elephants right now when you have a large group of players at the same point since PA forced everyone to fight for a few different nodes in a crappy PVP game mode. Elephants blink in from out of render range mostly do to lag.
3. Remove Elephants from 30 & 50 Man Node Wars. The elephant devistates small groups of players especially in a game mode that forces you to have that small amount. The game mode even though has a crappy last hit on node mechanic should be more strategic rather than the ol "Wait for the elephant to hit the ball"
4. Cap the amount of times you can spawn an elephant during node wars. Alliances are not punished for losing an elephant because they can have the next one up in several minutes. Lengthen the amount of time it takes to spawn an elephant or limit it to two per node war. 
5. Lower the AOE of the charge ability. Is there a reason why people are being CC'd from a football field away. The elephant wouldnt even be near you and it CC's you for some reason. This has to be a bug of some sort.
This is simply another mechanic that makes players upset in an already dying node war scene. SOMETHING needs to be done because right now the elephant is way too overpowered and just lowers the strategic ability of a fight when you see a hundred elephants charging around in circles infront of you.
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 02. Aug 2024, 12:32 (UTC)
# 2

Elephants are exceptionally vulnerable even on T1. A single trap is generally sufficient to half health the elephant (as well as shutdown it's impact on that push). They are available every 5mins if the elephant nursery remains properly hidden/defended, both of which require resources. The CC is strong against classical hard engage characters, such as succ zerkers, but it is quite weak against the more skirmish style comps typically seen on T1. The elephant is mostly an advantage in defensive fights, where the presence of elephant traps can be guaranteed to be near-0. Under focussed efforts, the first or even second elephant on a T1 NW can easily be killed by a raid with low Res timers. 

Honestly... I'd expect much better from corrupt; you guys should have plenty of experience dealing with elephants. On EU, elephants are simply another NW objective. Especially with how T2/3 is dead now, I don't think removing even more complexity from the game and pushing more utility players to quit is the play.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 02. Aug 2024, 13:12 (UTC)
# 3
On: Aug 2, 2024, 12:32 (UTC), Written by Helegnes

Elephants are exceptionally vulnerable even on T1. A single trap is generally sufficient to half health the elephant (as well as shutdown it's impact on that push). They are available every 5mins if the elephant nursery remains properly hidden/defended, both of which require resources. The CC is strong against classical hard engage characters, such as succ zerkers, but it is quite weak against the more skirmish style comps typically seen on T1. The elephant is mostly an advantage in defensive fights, where the presence of elephant traps can be guaranteed to be near-0. Under focussed efforts, the first or even second elephant on a T1 NW can easily be killed by a raid with low Res timers. 

Honestly... I'd expect much better from corrupt; you guys should have plenty of experience dealing with elephants. On EU, elephants are simply another NW objective. Especially with how T2/3 is dead now, I don't think removing even more complexity from the game and pushing more utility players to quit is the play.

1. Elephants are vulnerable on every Tier, that doesn't make them overpowered how they are. 

2. A single trap to half health an elephant is your opinion, and not based off fact (See snapping elephants)

3. The CC is strong against *Every* class and comp. Elephants dont suddenly stop working against a musa. 

4.  Elephants being mostly given an advantage in defensive fights is fundimentally right AND wrong. The MAJORITY of guilds using an elephant waits for the elephant to engage first to follow up on it. But its also good defensively as well. Too good

5. This thread isnt about corrupt, nor does it reflect their opinion, nor do I care about your wrong opinion on guilds. This is about Elephants usage, and how to correct them. 

I do however appreciate your opinion that you think they are fine. I diagree which is why I made the thread.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 02. Aug 2024, 13:46 (UTC)
# 4

Elephant CC's are wayyy too OP. I get KD from them out of super armor and because desync also iframes. I've noticed the guilds that wipe the most in node war are the ones with elephants running through the enemy ball. CC's are a massive problem I'm BDO right now and elephants are probably one of if not the worst offenders for it

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 02. Aug 2024, 15:33 (UTC)
# 5
On: Aug 2, 2024, 13:09 (UTC), Written by GodSlinger

2. A single trap to half health an elephant is your opinion, and not based off fact (See snapping elephants)

Except it is based on fact; if an elephant is used the way you later describe (engaging), and eats a trap, it will take ~50% HP dmg before being whistled out, assuming the rider is forced to V. Even if the rider is somehow left alive without Ving the dismount animation, and without the guild engaging on the elephant, the ele will still lose 20~25% HP, and be out of that push. This is based off of my experience shotcalling for ~6 years, with the most recent samples exclusively off of t1 and t2 NWs since "rework".

3. The CC is strong against *Every* class and comp. Elephants dont suddenly stop working against a musa. 

Yet they do; if your raid consists of a scattered line of woosas, maegus, archers and rangers, with a tiny frontline/engage, you will notice very little of an elephant short of fighting in a choke which already massively disadvantages you. Elephants counter static classes which struggle to reposition after their initial engage. Succ zerks. Awa valks etc etc etc. Yes, you can run over individual rangers not paying attention, or even line them up nicely and hit 3~4 in a pass, but this is much less impactful than cancelling a succ zerk 200% spin.

4.  Elephants being mostly given an advantage in defensive fights is fundimentally right AND wrong. The MAJORITY of guilds using an elephant waits for the elephant to engage first to follow up on it. But its also good defensively as well. Too good

This is frankly a very bad way to use an elephant, unless fighting against inexperienced and clumped guilds, or after having suicide engaged flares.

I do however appreciate your opinion that you think they are fine. I diagree which is why I made the thread.

Cheers, I also understand your struggle with Eles. I play an awakening witch and 9/10 I'll end up tanking the ele to. But I do believe elephant traps with 5s placement times are a fine counter. Alternatively, I'd be interested in the return of the trina lock. But I have to stress that removing even more utility aspects from NW will not do the game any favours; how are guilds supposed to learn how to ele for say, siege, if they cant use them during NW? We already see this issue on EU, where even if guilds attended siege with their ~50 signups; they'd have hopelessly undermanned util teams.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 02. Aug 2024, 15:59 (UTC)
# 6

2 elephants 1 camel

49 1835
Lv 61
Adonaj
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 02. Aug 2024, 16:58 (UTC)
# 7

I think we should cancel NA server instead.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 02. Aug 2024, 19:05 (UTC)
# 8

I agree and disagree. They are very strong yes, but they are in my view they are more useful defensively in T1, offensively can be useful but against fort repeatedly you are bound to get trapped and killed, he is very strong but also very vulnerable.
Its also pretty good to counter zoom zoom classes.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Aug 2024, 09:06 (UTC)
# 9

I love my dumbo.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 09. Aug 2024, 02:03 (UTC)
# 10

Reviving this thread so the devs / cms can see that Elephants dont work when the servers are laggy as hell. You get a elephant teleporting all around. The servers cant even support 3 alliances on a 50 man which is honestly pathetic. 

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