Disclaimer!

I compiled this feedback originally in a document, with more complex formatting. It was also sent off to some sources, and handed over to a Console ambassador to rewrite with their Console GMs too.
This was written with the help of quite a few Tamers and if they'd like their Discord handle credited below just leave a comment! I've omitted it as such for now as the list of people involved is really long and I'm not sure about the character limit on the new Forums. The original platform I used was Discord to gather feedback.

You might notice this post is written 'like a patch note'; this was done initially to remove any emotional and implied tone that happens when I write in English, so that when it is translated it is kept as close to the original as possible in the translated language! Thus, everything sounds a little dramatic and blunt. But the aim of the document was clarity, not to discuss whether X skill can be used in X situation by X Player specifically but rather the overall feel and things I have read and recieved since the word 'reboot' was mentioned.

Finally, not everything typed here is what I agree with personally. That would be selfish of me; see it as a general feedback from many sources that I have happened to compile.

I would love to know how you feel about what is written, but please keep it mature. The forums are moderated heavily, and childish instigating won't get any of us anywhere. Be sure to read the entire post, as I've categorised some things at the end under 'Other' and some things under 'Heilang' etc.

Intro

There is a clear and obvious improvement overall with the Tamer reboot, the Tamer community is very thankful for the progress which is made and hopes that we can keep moving forward! ~

Tamer is in a good 1 versus 1 combat state. She struggles with more opponents, and is not enjoyable to play in large-scale PvP. Once the group is larger than 15 v 15, the kit does not perform well. This is due to few protected damage skills and patchy, short movement distance. It is said you can outrun a Tamer if you sheathe your weapon and run forward.

Most Adventurers would agree that there are some issues with Tamer that needed to be addressed, which the proposed rework has addressed a few of. This document was thus put together by many Tamer mains aiming to help mitigate the tough time Tamer has in the Large Scale PvP, as well as her shortcomings outside 1v1 and PvP. 

This is feedback on the Rework changes, as well as Additional points. We recommend navigating using the Headers.

Most of the changes in this Document are PvP focused, however that are comments made for PvE Quality of Life changes too.

Pre-Awakening; Shortsword

Evasive attack

The skill looks very nice. However the Knockback effect makes it hazardous to use for combo purposes, and the animation is not fluid. There is no damage (which is fine, adding damage would not be balanced), no protection and very little movement with the skill. Thus, the skill still feels useless and a waste of Skill Point.
Please remove the Knockback effect as it is too unbalanced. In its current state, a Tamer can Knockback enemies too often.
Please make it cover more distance laterally, preferably with Super Armor effect if levelled to Absolute. This means the Tamer can scout the ground better in Large Scale PvP. If there is a Super Armor effect, a short Cooldown will be needed as this would be a dramatic change.

Void Lightning

The skill is now swift and fluid to use, Thank you. It would be a much better improvement if the Heilang attack was faster upon using the skill to make up for Tamer’s pace to keep up with faster classes.

Air Lightning

The skill is now perfect, Thank you. 

Throatburn

The skill is interesting and Frontal Guard effect now opens up some Style choice in Preawakening stance. It would be preferred if the skill input was changed so that it does not clash with Allround Spinner for Awakening Tamers.

Flash tree

The skill Flash, Pole Thrust, Stance Shift; the skills have a good skill effect and are fine, but the Area of Effect is still small.

Sharpening Claws

Amazing improvement, Thank you.

Awakening; Bo Staff

Beast Rampage

The increased Area of Effect is a good step in the right direction. This skill has become the recent forefront of the Tamer Awakening kit, so an Area of Effect increase is welcomed greatly.

Cloud Stomping

The streamline of the Stomping and Riding skills is a welcome change, reducing Skill Point cost and Cooldown for the skill. However, the skill is very clunky and not fun to use in its current state. 

Please add back the Invincibility effect for the Cloud Ride portion of the Cloud Stomping skill, to match such movement of other classes (eg. Guardian, Corsair). This may sound like a dramatic change, however Tamer is a pure melee class unlike the aforementioned classes that lacks a solid disengage - making Large Scale PvP unplayable without such.

Flow: Full Moon

The accuracy buff on hit is a good change, and works well with Tamer’s focus on accurate skills. However, the skill can make it awkward to perform other skills such as Beast Rampage after Moonlight Strike. 

Please change the skill input from LMB to something else, or change the skill priority for the chain of skills ‘Moonlight Strike’ > ‘Beast Rampage’ to ignore Full Moon in this case only. This will make Tamer better at securing targets in Large Scale PvP without affecting her 1v1 at all.

Howling

The ability to bring Heilang back to you during this skill is a welcomed improvement, Thank you.

A shorter Cooldown would be preferred, but is not vital.

Celestial Slam

Please consider adding the Super Armor effect to the skill. This is a drastic ask, however the removal of Stiffness status effect can be considered to change the skill from an Engage type to a Combo skill. This is considering the Tamer can use Bon skills instead.

Please allow the Tamer to cancel the skill.

Allround Spinner

A slight increase in Damage for this skill would be welcomed, as Tamer does not have much protected trading Damage for Large Scale PvP. Allround Spinner does not have a CC, and has very little range - so a slight Damage increase would not be unbalanced. This would also benefit the PvE for Awakened Tamer.

Flow: Soaring Strike

Please consider moving the Down Smash effect from Flow: Full Moon to Flow: Soaring Strike, as Soaring Strike as it is does not provide much more than a slow protection. 

Alternatively, please make it so that when placed in the Hotkey, it can be used from Shortsword stance.

Legendary Beast Dance

The unification of effects for all dance types is good, Thank you. However some Tamers think the dances have lost the need to be special. Please add different skill ranges on the alternative dances, or flashier visual effect.

Heilang: Beserk

Many Adventurers feel that the Damage Reduction effect is not suitable to the accurate playstyle of Tamer. Please consider changing the effect to Attack Power and/or Accuracy Rate to match the Awakening Buff of other classes.

Rain Curtain

The +20 DP buff requires the Tamer to hold the Blocking status without being hit for 2 seconds. Please make it so that it applies instantly as the Tamer presses Q, like all other classes. This would benefit the Tamer to survive better in the Large Scale PvP, as there is usually no time to hold the Blocking status without being punished.

Succession; Prime Shortsword

Throat Burn

The Frontal Guard effect is perfect. The skill has added PvP damage to Succession making it more fun and fluid in group gameplay. This has also been a perfect change to PvE. This skill alone has made the Succession Tamer a valued choice to play, for all gear levels. 

The new animation is beautiful, however it is just a little clunky. Please let us cancel the animation earlier.

Surging Tide

The AoE change is welcomed. Thank you. 

Please add a longer Evasion Debuff timer to the skill, so that it can be better used for the PvE rotation up-time.

The Knockback effect is not preferred, and a Stun effect would be more fluid for the Tamer - but it is not vital.

Lightning of Earth 

Please add a longer Damage Reduction debuff timer to the skill, so that it can be better used for the PvE rotation up-time. Without it, the Succession Tamer will fall behind in PvE greatly.

Upward Claw 

The Area of Effect increase was not noticeable, and the skill is still not preferred. Please add a Super Armor effect to it’s second hit - this is a large ask, as Super Armor is a protection however it is needed for Tamer to perform in the Large Scale PvP mid-combo.

Heilang: Roaring

This change is really good. The effect of Stiffness on Cooldown was removed, and it is good. The damage increase makes the skill feel good and fluid. It feels impactful for the Tamer. 

Please extend the Frontal Guard effect so that the Tamer can better use the skill for PvE - it should be considered as the Roaring Cooldown is the longest.

Prime: Allround Spinner

Please consider reducing the Reduced PvP Damage effect for this skill by 15%, and speed up the animation.

This will allow a Succession Tamer to deal with more than 1 enemy in Large Scale PvP.

Heilang

Heilang is the Tamer’s companion. It is a key component to the class’ Identity, and makes the class so welcoming and unique to Adventurers.

Commands

The new commands are very good. Thank you, we can control the Heilang better.

The new skills work as intended outside of actual combat, however when the Tamer is hit, Heilang freezes in place and does not follow up with skill Effects; Heilang goes back to being idle.

This is a huge issue, but we assume it is just a bug that will be fixed in due time.

Mounted

The reworked mount combat for the Heilang is a great surprise. It is not exactly the most wanted change, but it is good and opens up some options for all types of Adventurer. 

The new skills are good and impactful, balanced and fluid. 

Please apply the Invincibility effect to Heilang’s Evasion to match the Tamer’s, so the Tamer does not fall off Heilang all the time.

Please consider making the Heilang mounting faster for the Tamer.

Please allow the Heilang to auto-navigate if the Tamer is mounting. This is the only change Tamers have been asking for Mounted Heilang since Tamer release. It would make the mounted Heilang more appealing, and not a waste of time.

Rabam/Skill Enhancements

Resonance

Please increase the Area of Effect this skill, so the Tamer can cope with the many enemies in Large Scale. The damage and animation is already very fluid.

Horror Slam

Please add a little more PvE damage to this skill - it is unprotected so it is not chosen by many Tamers at all.

Legendary Beast’s Claw

The clunky skill cannot be cancelled, and has partial protection. Please either make the skill full Super Armor effect, or allow the skill to be cancelled better. The skill is not chosen by any Tamer right now, so the skill is considered mostly useless.

Please consider a faster/smoother starting animation - the skill is not fluid.

Jolt Stab

This skill is fine as it is. Thank you!

Lightning Burn

Please allow the Tamer to cancel the animation.

Breath Spike

This skill is fine as it is. Thank you!

Other/Passive

This section is more to do with what can be done next.

Tamer struggles to keep up with faster classes, even with a movement rotation using Legendary Beast’s Power.

> Please add a 5% Movement Speed self buff for 5 seconds to make the skills that follow after more agile and fluid.

The Evasion skill is only protected when moving forwards.

> Please make rank III of Evasion have the same Invincibility effect in all directions when the Tamer chooses the Succession.

The Evasion skill can make the Tamer slow if hit by Debuff effects.

> Please make the skill unaffected by reduced Movement Speed debuff effect, much like Valkyrie sidestepping motion.

The ‘Fortune’s Blessing’ is dated, and not a good passive. 

> Please add 10% Movement speed to the passive.

The Tamer is able to jump around using Leap, Scratch, and old Throat Burn.
> Please replace Flurry of Kicks, a useless skill, with the old version of Throat Burn so that the Tamer can continue to leap.
We suggest ‘Pheonix Slice’ as the new skill name to match the Tamer’s flexible appearance. 

Overall the Skill tree streamline is very useful, and reduces Tamer Skill Point usage a little

> Please consider reducing the Skill Point cost for Rank I - Absolute Roaring so that new Awakening Adventurers can invest earlier on.

Edit for the 2nd wave of changes:

Firstly, I'd like to express my gratitude on the support this post has got, as well as the sensible and mature discussions around the Community here and within the Official Tamer Discord. You all provide such passion and hope for the class, and having the ability to be unified in our opinions means there is a greater chance we are going to see changes that will strengthen the class in current BDO state.
However I'd also like to express my disappointment that pretty much none of the vocalised feedback was taken into account at all. However, it is still early days. Lets stay hopeful!

New 'Resonating Echo Pierce'

No one really asked for this but it surely is interesting and welcomed.

However, the Resonating Buffs are very shortly lived. It would greatly improve the quality of the skill if the chosen Resonance buff remained for longer, such as 30s, or remained indefinitely unless changed by choosing a different Resonance.

New Howling

This is an absolutely brilliant improvement! Not only does this reduce the Skill point count for newer Tamers but it provides a better tool for large scale. Seeing this change keeps me hopeful that we are indeed being listened to.

I do not think this can be improved further without becoming unbalanced. Thank you for this change!

Going forward

A few more ideas were discussed within the Community. Although we are still firm in what we would like to see from the above, two points were prominent:
- Swap the Crowd Control effect from Beast Rampage with it's Core: Forward Guard effect; This means the skill can be used as a greater damage skill so that Tamers can then choose their Core more flexibly. This would also make the new Resonating Echo Pierce more valuable, as options and variety open up for all Tamers.

- Fortune's Blessing would benefit from a Movement Speed % increase effect; The reworks are seeing other classes becoming faster, the Tamer still has problems with keeping up. A small change such as this would impact both Succession and Awakening.

An unpopular point, but with the new Commands system we will also lose our sitting Heilang. The new commands are too good to replace.

Perhaps this can be added back into the kit as a fifth (5th) command and better HP regen; 3hp/3s > 250hp/5s ? The call to sit could also be our old flute animation. This will be an ode to the Original Tamer Identity, without obstructing the actual combatant kit.

If you would like to join in with the discussion and the good vibes, please click <here> to join the Officially recognised Tamer Discord!

I agree with pretty much everything stated above. Very well written compilation of most of Tamer's issue. Although I would like to put more emphasize on Tamer's AoE-size, especially of her awakened kit. It feels quite awful to use in PvE when compared to most other classes and needs a more significant increase in it's AoE-size across the board.

Great compilation Nano, I can agree with pretty much everything here and really shows off why the reboot falls short and what could be done to fix it.

Some of these that really stand out to me are Cloud Stomping (the cd reduction is great but iframe is so so needed), our passive and ebuff (the passive is just laughable and the ebuff hardly provides any defense and still can't stack with absorb), and the dire need of increased AoE and protected damage options.

I would love to see Allround Spinner receive an AoE increase as well as more damage on the attack itself not just the Heilang followup, as it would give a reason to go into the new flow Soaring Strike as well as help out a lot in PvE. Moving the downsmash from Fullmoon to Soaring Strike is a great idea for the same reason, I currently don't see Soaring Strike providing any use in PvP without something of that sort and I don't think Fullmoon needs that downsmash. I would also love to see Resonance receive a damage increase since it used to be one of our only protected damage options (and is just about our only AoE option) but fell off when it was left out of the class v class damage modifier update. That and/or give Horror Slam a protection because it's so stylish it's a shame it's not worth using.

Those alone would make me a very happy tamer, but like this post lays out there are still lots of areas where tamer could use some more love.

Yoshiya88, crushak:

Absolutely, I think an AoE increase for Awakening would be an complete game changer. 
Yoshiya88:

I agree, all damage increases for Pre-awakening are welcome to bring that stance back into the kit! Resonance and Horror Slam having a presence again would diversify combos and help our PvE for both Awakening and Succession.

Thank you both for the kind words and encouragement, too :D

Nano, Thanks for all your hard work putting these comments together! This is an excellent and reasonable list of suggestions for the developers.

I'd like to reiterate my support of these ideas/suggestions (as others have above), and also reinforce the need for a greatly improved AoE capacity to the kit. The addition of a single large-AoE ability would revolutionize this old class and bring it close to the level of new classes. I'm crossing my fingers something like this will be released this week on Glabs.

-Poncho

Seedz, I'm glad you liked my post! 

Absolutely, more range entirely on our kit would be great. We are such a pure melee class, so at least we can be raised up to be on par with the likes of the other Shortsword classes.

Big fan of your post, good job and thanks a lot!

About the rework, I'd be happy with 2 changes :

- protected evasion in all directions for succession, as you mentioned

- the removal of any collision from tree climb ; it could be a really useful tool for disengagement and traps. It should go also back to its previous speed in succession. I even thought of a new name (Oblivion kick) and a lore explanation (tamer is briefly going to Heilang's realm and disappear from this realm) to justify the Iframe, if needed. XD

Thanks for the hard work, nen.

I support everything in the document to varying degrees.  Some things before others, but all of it wouldn't be too ridiculous in the long run.

Better grinding is a big thing.  There's absolutely no reason each class can't be equal in different ways for PvE other than AoE and Damage not being adjusted for it.

Grimm, Sadalsuud - Thanks for your support! <3

Sadalsuud;

I love that idea, the realm of Heilang sounds so badass! Tamer's lore is so open ended, this would be very cool to add to it.

Grimm;

Heres hoping our cries for better AoEs are heard - Tamer being so close ranged feels dated and is starting to feel out of place in the current modern BDO world.