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So after rework, removed accuracy, adding evasion- what to do now? ö.Ö [Kunoichi]
Feb 19, 2022, 08:10 (UTC)
4244 11
1 2
Last Edit : Feb 19, 2022, 08:49 (UTC)
# 1

Hi everyone.

As the title said, after rework they changed all passive skills again...


I remember passives where giving accuracy at all.
Now they completely removed it and adding evasion...

Before I had Leeburs and Muskans and I indeed noticed it was slightly working on monster territories like Ahibs and else, even if not caphras T10 and additional eva accuracy. It was better than damage reduction, because Kuno was utterly weak for every hit she was receiving even on high DR.

After rework I totally noticed the lack of accuracy if having leeburs just one Viper Jin and usual accu crystal in mainhand...
Now I totally want to go back to Bhegs and adding a second viper Jin and even Elcarr (since it's pretty cheap at the moment). Automatically means you have to go Uru again otherwise you loose dp.
Having Tet Bhegs (compared to Pen Leeburs) since you could exchange for Tuvala and adding another Viper Jin the difference is crystal clear.

-> But this class totally is working against the logic by that.
I also noticed in some lower territories like Elvia fogan ( at least for the the nowadays spot, not the earlier 270ap ones) it's still enough to evade dmg completely sometimes per hit. (Probably rng, but still not bad)
It's somehow always either *damage output* OR *mess around with the enemy, but don't kill them easily*...

Now what shall I clearly do??....
PA is really messing this up everytime.

15 88
Lv Private
Kukirin
Last Edit : Feb 19, 2022, 16:06 (UTC)
# 2

Same thing other classes are doing, get accuracy accessories and crystals, maybe even an offhand. Double or at least Single Pen Dawn should always be end game. Accuracy has always been essential in end game, prior to reworks. Most just got around it b/c they could combo, and Kuno's combo has some pretty good accuracy in it. Whilst having Accuracy as a passive works for DR Kunos, everyone got hit in some way or form they don't like...so you have to account for it.

Last Edit : Feb 20, 2022, 05:34 (UTC)
# 3
On: Feb 19, 2022, 16:03 (UTC), Written by Jenisiz

Same thing other classes are doing, get accuracy accessories and crystals, maybe even an offhand. Double or at least Single Pen Dawn should always be end game. Accuracy has always been essential in end game, prior to reworks. Most just got around it b/c they could combo, and Kuno's combo has some pretty good accuracy in it. Whilst having Accuracy as a passive works for DR Kunos, everyone got hit in some way or form they don't like...so you have to account for it.

But you can't just collate every class that simple.

You're mixing something up. The accuracy was completely removed on passives. So there are no accu passives anymore.
Also accu accessories would totally kill my bracket. She is no overpowered guardian... Alpha damage output per skill would lack by that.
(And no, many people telling a Kuno skill is very powerful actually, but know because it's just a single skill, not like Mystik or Lahn where you keeping pushing down one button and she is doing a 5-10 hit combo. All compensates that. You have to consider it on such classes. Rather compare a sage with a Kuno on skillpower)
Though they were adding +1ap on every second passive. Would be a total of +10 ap. But compared to other classes before she was always underpowert, not equal. So the additional AP is now compremising to be equal to other/new classes.

That said, I cannot effort to switch accessories from ap for accu- except maybe for distortion, but which decreasing even more DR and DR. So it's a 2 bladed sword if going back to DR. Already having Turo belt for that.
On Kuno you have to compensate the DPS by doing skills as fast as you can next to one another (I bet that's why PA made this class so fast anyway..)

Thing is as I said, DR was much less usefull on this class than eva before. You get hit 3 times and you was dead already- like a Witch (you should know since you're playing one) or a sorc- well just the sorc is much more protected with all those trillion I-frames compared to kuno...
So it's not that simply to just account for getting hit sometimes.

I'm currently pening my Bhegs. It may even change after hitting the DR bracked further. I dunno, yet. have to test tons if it again just by that, well not gonna say "bad", yet, but let's say weird decision PA made again...


15 88
Lv Private
Kukirin
Last Edit : Feb 20, 2022, 21:30 (UTC)
# 4
On: Feb 20, 2022, 05:33 (UTC), Written by Veoh

But you can't just collate every class that simple.

You're mixing something up. The accuracy was completely removed on passives. So there are no accu passives anymore.
Also accu accessories would totally kill my bracket. She is no overpowered guardian... Alpha damage output per skill would lack by that.
(And no, many people telling a Kuno skill is very powerful actually, but know because it's just a single skill, not like Mystik or Lahn where you keeping pushing down one button and she is doing a 5-10 hit combo. All compensates that. You have to consider it on such classes. Rather compare a sage with a Kuno on skillpower)
Though they were adding +1ap on every second passive. Would be a total of +10 ap. But compared to other classes before she was always underpowert, not equal. So the additional AP is now compremising to be equal to other/new classes.

That said, I cannot effort to switch accessories from ap for accu- except maybe for distortion, but which decreasing even more DR and DR. So it's a 2 bladed sword if going back to DR. Already having Turo belt for that.
On Kuno you have to compensate the DPS by doing skills as fast as you can next to one another (I bet that's why PA made this class so fast anyway..)

Thing is as I said, DR was much less usefull on this class than eva before. You get hit 3 times and you was dead already- like a Witch (you should know since you're playing one) or a sorc- well just the sorc is much more protected with all those trillion I-frames compared to kuno...
So it's not that simply to just account for getting hit sometimes.

I'm currently pening my Bhegs. It may even change after hitting the DR bracked further. I dunno, yet. have to test tons if it again just by that, well not gonna say "bad", yet, but let's say weird decision PA made again...


Most classes got hit pretty hard to balance them out, wasn't ONLY Kuno. Hash is worse off for Accuracy then any other class, lost his. Sage lost his too. Several classes had to be balanced out, Kuno wasn't the only one. As part of balancing and broadening them out. Accuracy accessories should always be end game, you shouldn't be relying on Passives to achieve. All Sage had, was high accuracy. So much so they lost iframe for it. Now they don't have iframe OR such a high passive. In exchange, Kuno got a fuck ton of damage and ability to gain runes w/o needing to hit targets. That's a pretty fair change, especially seeing how low her CD's are ONTOP of flashing allowing stam regen. It was a balance thing, can't have it all. I was a Kuno, now play Succ Sage. I was a Sorc Main on Launch, for 2 years. Then moved to Ninja/Kuno. So I'm very well aware of the builds, and the buffs were such that succ kuno is arguably the strongest succ kit in game now. Only fair.

Last Edit : Feb 22, 2022, 14:38 (UTC)
# 5
Am 20. Feb 2022, 21:28 (UTC), von Jenisiz

Most classes got hit pretty hard to balance them out, wasn't ONLY Kuno. Hash is worse off for Accuracy then any other class, lost his. Sage lost his too. Several classes had to be balanced out, Kuno wasn't the only one. As part of balancing and broadening them out. Accuracy accessories should always be end game, you shouldn't be relying on Passives to achieve. All Sage had, was high accuracy. So much so they lost iframe for it. Now they don't have iframe OR such a high passive. In exchange, Kuno got a fuck ton of damage and ability to gain runes w/o needing to hit targets. That's a pretty fair change, especially seeing how low her CD's are ONTOP of flashing allowing stam regen. It was a balance thing, can't have it all. I was a Kuno, now play Succ Sage. I was a Sorc Main on Launch, for 2 years. Then moved to Ninja/Kuno. So I'm very well aware of the builds, and the buffs were such that succ kuno is arguably the strongest succ kit in game now. Only fair.

I already heard hash is even worse- even if PA actually stated the new classes won't be touched... (Though hash had probably the most eva base stats ever)
But honestly all new classes were ridicolous overpowered anyway, and some (Guardian, Corsair) still are.

And it's totally NOT justified to state the reduced cooldown now is powerful, since classes like Sage for example had less cooldown for much more powerful spells.
The CD of Ninja/Kuno was simply exaggerated long in generell. (just Ninja always had more burst dmg)

Still the combination doesn't work... Adding evasion, but lacking accuracy in the end- where you can't compremise it by gear, because you have to go DR, or accuracy acce, because you have to suffer too much ap for bracket.
I think it's partly the fault for the gear itself because it's the exact same gear for different classes.
As I said, it's either hitting and dealing dmg, or troll the enemy but hardly can't kill either.

As for other classes it's much more simple... Warrior for example.
_____________________
I'll test some another things soon. Having some accuracy skilladdons actually works pretty well already.
Still would be nice if someone already know about something by testing in the nowadays- no offense, but not just stating "do it like everyone on every class" because it's the meta or what ever.  

15 88
Lv Private
Kukirin
Last Edit : Feb 22, 2022, 21:04 (UTC)
# 6
On: Feb 22, 2022, 14:37 (UTC), Written by Veoh

I already heard hash is even worse- even if PA actually stated the new classes won't be touched... (Though hash had probably the most eva base stats ever)
But honestly all new classes were ridicolous overpowered anyway, and some (Guardian, Corsair) still are.

And it's totally NOT justified to state the reduced cooldown now is powerful, since classes like Sage for example had less cooldown for much more powerful spells.
The CD of Ninja/Kuno was simply exaggerated long in generell. (just Ninja always had more burst dmg)

Still the combination doesn't work... Adding evasion, but lacking accuracy in the end- where you can't compremise it by gear, because you have to go DR, or accuracy acce, because you have to suffer too much ap for bracket.
I think it's partly the fault for the gear itself because it's the exact same gear for different classes.
As I said, it's either hitting and dealing dmg, or troll the enemy but hardly can't kill either.

As for other classes it's much more simple... Warrior for example.
_____________________
I'll test some another things soon. Having some accuracy skilladdons actually works pretty well already.
Still would be nice if someone already know about something by testing in the nowadays- no offense, but not just stating "do it like everyone on every class" because it's the meta or what ever.  

Think you need to check your stats, Sage is the amoungest the weakest class in Game currently."And it's totally NOT justified to state the reduced cooldown now is powerful, since es like Sage for example had less cooldown for much more powerful spells. " I've no idea how you can even come to this conclusion...shorter cooldowns for more powerful skill? What skill are you even refering to? Sage doesn't have a SINGLE SKILL in the kit that has better damage then Kuno. Not 1. Kunos best skills are very low cooldowns, even less then half of Sages. Lightening Prision, 15 seconds, Upsurge is 10 Seconds and has a VERY SMALL AOE same with 9 sec Riftstorm, which is about 1/10th the aoe of Tendon, less damage, and no CC. or are you refering to Finishing Touch...17 sec cool down and still less damage then Kuno's Average, non-rune cast skills? There's no other high damage skills in that kit...so completely confused in your logic. Kuno's cooldowns are not only lower, but deal more damage and come out in burst.

Succ Kuno is in Top 5 for most damage overall, only outshined by Striker, Musa, Mae and Guardian(By a miniscule amount). This is required due to her rune damage, which is amoungst the hardest hitting abilites in game currently. W/o, she's still in top 5. On tag kuno, I can clear RBF Val with upwards of 30 kills.  It's completely justified to have to take away from a kit so loaded. Sages kit WAS amoungest the hardest hitting classes prior to rework, but now, is amoungst the lowest. For context, Kunos middle of the pack skills deal considerably more damage then Sages hardest hitting skills. Same with Corsair, Kunos average Modifer's are not only higer but PVP reductions are considerably lower...especially given the fact that almost every single Kuno skill is Burst...meaning she doesn't take 3-4 seconds to get them off, and neither have a 1 second cd full reactable iframe either. Infact, not a single New class has a full reactable fast iframe....if iframe at all. She's also the fastest protected "blink" class in game coupled with a lot of skills that function as utility...a major issue newer classes lack. For example, imagine tendon cutter or flash ONLY working with a target and ONLY taking you directly to it, unprotected and costing you 200+ stamina to do it. Most of Sages dps skills, that you're refering too are locked between 3-4 second animations, and believe it or not, are actually weaker then Kunos and less protected. Riftstom for example, has a smaller AOE then Prime Shadow Stomp, doesn't CC and takes 3 seconds to cast with less damage too. LP also deals CONSIDERABLY less damage then Tendon, similar AOE and has no CC either. Nothing else in Sage's kit can even compare to just those 2 skills...and those are his HARDEST hitting skills Excluding Upsurge...which is only ever Last Hit cast b/c the entire animation takes 3 seconds to cast and still deals less then half the damage of Tendon w/ a 1/10th the AOE Size. This trend is EXACTLY the same on Corsair. You will see Kuno's rework not only matches new classes, but takes not an extra step, but a mile further.

Asking for Accuracy when you're in top 5 damage, coupled with a kit that's not 1/3rd stamina draining, shorter cd's and the ability to not only straight up go invisible, but disappear and reappear at will...is just greedy. Why no one else has approved your message. It's already busted op as it is. Sage's 2 second SA -> Iframe -> SA was entirely removed b/c it had the issue of disappearing and reappearing...now it's full SA...and still on a 2 second CD and has a visable animation subject to massive hit stutter. If he wants to bolt again, something Kuno's 1 sec cd would allow, he has to cast a dps skill, often unprotected, and give up 250 stamina for 1 more SA trackable dash. That's 2 1/2x more then Kuno's 100 stam iframe. Divine/Judgement, is similar to Flash, but on a 17 second CD and deals laughable damage to a very small area...and doesn't alot stamina regen, instead costing 200. Kuno's kit is overloaded as it stands, and she's not only faster but can hit harder then ninja too. Can't have it all.

In fact, she's so strong, most don't even consider adding her to polls - Which is overall weakest(pvp wise) (google.com)

Having to slap on Accuracy Accessories in exchange for how overloaded her kit currently is, is 100% fair. Some would heavily argue it's not enough...you're the first and only person I've seen not find the rework, justification enough.

Last Edit : Mar 1, 2022, 08:30 (UTC)
# 7
On: Feb 22, 2022, 17:58 (UTC), Written by Jenisiz

Think you need to check your stats, Sage is the amoungest the weakest class in Game currently."And it's totally NOT justified to state the reduced cooldown now is powerful, since es like Sage for example had less cooldown for much more powerful spells. " I've no idea how you can even come to this conclusion...shorter cooldowns for more powerful skill? What skill are you even refering to? Sage doesn't have a SINGLE SKILL in the kit that has better damage then Kuno. Not 1. Kunos best skills are very low cooldowns, even less then half of Sages. Lightening Prision, 15 seconds, Upsurge is 10 Seconds and has a VERY SMALL AOE same with 9 sec Riftstorm, which is about 1/10th the aoe of Tendon, less damage, and no CC. or are you refering to Finishing Touch...17 sec cool down and still less damage then Kuno's Average, non-rune cast skills? There's no other high damage skills in that kit...so completely confused in your logic. Kuno's cooldowns are not only lower, but deal more damage and come out in burst.

Succ Kuno is in Top 5 for most damage overall, only outshined by Striker, Musa, Mae and Guardian(By a miniscule amount). This is required due to her rune damage, which is amoungst the hardest hitting abilites in game currently. W/o, she's still in top 5. On tag kuno, I can clear RBF Val with upwards of 30 kills.  It's completely justified to have to take away from a kit so loaded. Sages kit WAS amoungest the hardest hitting classes prior to rework, but now, is amoungst the lowest. For context, Kunos middle of the pack skills deal considerably more damage then Sages hardest hitting skills. Same with Corsair, Kunos average Modifer's are not only higer but PVP reductions are considerably lower...especially given the fact that almost every single Kuno skill is Burst...meaning she doesn't take 3-4 seconds to get them off, and neither have a 1 second cd full reactable iframe either. Infact, not a single New class has a full reactable fast iframe....if iframe at all. She's also the fastest protected "blink" class in game coupled with a lot of skills that function as utility...a major issue newer classes lack. For example, imagine tendon cutter or flash ONLY working with a target and ONLY taking you directly to it, unprotected and costing you 200+ stamina to do it. Most of Sages dps skills, that you're refering too are locked between 3-4 second animations, and believe it or not, are actually weaker then Kunos and less protected. Riftstom for example, has a smaller AOE then Prime Shadow Stomp, doesn't CC and takes 3 seconds to cast with less damage too. LP also deals CONSIDERABLY less damage then Tendon, similar AOE and has no CC either. Nothing else in Sage's kit can even compare to just those 2 skills...and those are his HARDEST hitting skills Excluding Upsurge...which is only ever Last Hit cast b/c the entire animation takes 3 seconds to cast and still deals less then half the damage of Tendon w/ a 1/10th the AOE Size. This trend is EXACTLY the same on Corsair. You will see Kuno's rework not only matches new classes, but takes not an extra step, but a mile further.

Asking for Accuracy when you're in top 5 damage, coupled with a kit that's not 1/3rd stamina draining, shorter cd's and the ability to not only straight up go invisible, but disappear and reappear at will...is just greedy. Why no one else has approved your message. It's already busted op as it is. Sage's 2 second SA -> Iframe -> SA was entirely removed b/c it had the issue of disappearing and reappearing...now it's full SA...and still on a 2 second CD and has a visable animation subject to massive hit stutter. If he wants to bolt again, something Kuno's 1 sec cd would allow, he has to cast a dps skill, often unprotected, and give up 250 stamina for 1 more SA trackable dash. That's 2 1/2x more then Kuno's 100 stam iframe. Divine/Judgement, is similar to Flash, but on a 17 second CD and deals laughable damage to a very small area...and doesn't alot stamina regen, instead costing 200. Kuno's kit is overloaded as it stands, and she's not only faster but can hit harder then ninja too. Can't have it all.

In fact, she's so strong, most don't even consider adding her to polls - Which is overall weakest(pvp wise) (google.com)

Having to slap on Accuracy Accessories in exchange for how overloaded her kit currently is, is 100% fair. Some would heavily argue it's not enough...you're the first and only person I've seen not find the rework, justification enough.

If you read it properly you wouldve noticed it was awaken kuno, not succ... , Either way ones a broken a variant an ones just in the top middle i guess

Last Edit : Mar 3, 2022, 18:02 (UTC)
# 8
On: Feb 19, 2022, 08:10 (UTC), Written by Veoh

Hi everyone.

As the title said, after rework they changed all passive skills again...


I remember passives where giving accuracy at all.
Now they completely removed it and adding evasion...

Before I had Leeburs and Muskans and I indeed noticed it was slightly working on monster territories like Ahibs and else, even if not caphras T10 and additional eva accuracy. It was better than damage reduction, because Kuno was utterly weak for every hit she was receiving even on high DR.

After rework I totally noticed the lack of accuracy if having leeburs just one Viper Jin and usual accu crystal in mainhand...
Now I totally want to go back to Bhegs and adding a second viper Jin and even Elcarr (since it's pretty cheap at the moment). Automatically means you have to go Uru again otherwise you loose dp.
Having Tet Bhegs (compared to Pen Leeburs) since you could exchange for Tuvala and adding another Viper Jin the difference is crystal clear.

-> But this class totally is working against the logic by that.
I also noticed in some lower territories like Elvia fogan ( at least for the the nowadays spot, not the earlier 270ap ones) it's still enough to evade dmg completely sometimes per hit. (Probably rng, but still not bad)
It's somehow always either *damage output* OR *mess around with the enemy, but don't kill them easily*...

Now what shall I clearly do??....
PA is really messing this up everytime.

On: Mar 1, 2022, 08:25 (UTC), Written by Kenshin210

If you read it properly you wouldve noticed it was awaken kuno, not succ... , Either way ones a broken a variant an ones just in the top middle i guess

Where do you suggest Awakening? And regardless, her Absolutes and Awakening skills still apply lol. Her Absolutes still outdamage most of the reworks Awa Damage on classes like Sage and Corsair. But with more iframe and better teleport.

Last Edit : Mar 4, 2022, 01:37 (UTC)
# 9
On: Mar 3, 2022, 18:02 (UTC), Written by Jenisiz

Where do you suggest Awakening? And regardless, her Absolutes and Awakening skills still apply lol. Her Absolutes still outdamage most of the reworks Awa Damage on classes like Sage and Corsair. But with more iframe and better teleport.

Awaken kuno is nothing like succ kuno. her preawaken works completely different succs versions especially for stamina consumption on absolutes.For corsair and sage i dont know if your trying to say their succesion counter parts or awaken if you said which maybe i can see where your comming from . Considering awaken kuno needs alot more key combonations to learn im pretty sure you have no idea how awaken kuno works if your comparing them with with these two classes. Both sage and corsair are significantly easier on inputs to learn an play. Absolutes dont do as much damage as your trying to potray.Considering the amount of stamina they require. Short animations with high amount of inputs vs  classes with long animations with low amount inputs needed. None of them have a remotely simlar playstyles either.Just seems like your trying nit pick over nothing as you dont have a understandment of how classes work.

Also her accuracy isnt as good as people make it out to be.

Last Edit : Mar 4, 2022, 02:11 (UTC)
# 10
On: Feb 20, 2022, 21:28 (UTC), Written by Jenisiz

Most classes got hit pretty hard to balance them out, wasn't ONLY Kuno. Hash is worse off for Accuracy then any other class, lost his. Sage lost his too. Several classes had to be balanced out, Kuno wasn't the only one. As part of balancing and broadening them out. Accuracy accessories should always be end game, you shouldn't be relying on Passives to achieve. All Sage had, was high accuracy. So much so they lost iframe for it. Now they don't have iframe OR such a high passive. In exchange, Kuno got a fuck ton of damage and ability to gain runes w/o needing to hit targets. That's a pretty fair change, especially seeing how low her CD's are ONTOP of flashing allowing stam regen. It was a balance thing, can't have it all. I was a Kuno, now play Succ Sage. I was a Sorc Main on Launch, for 2 years. Then moved to Ninja/Kuno. So I'm very well aware of the builds, and the buffs were such that succ kuno is arguably the strongest succ kit in game now. Only fair.

since you put here about kunos low cds, you saying awaken kuno isnt much better heres some awaken skill cds since obviously you didnt play kuno for very long( i suspect you only played the Succ variant. For the comment : "Kunos best skills are very low cooldowns, even less then half of Sages"
Think you need to look at the following skills :
Chain crash - 12 seconds ( A best PvE Skill also not protected)
Lunatic Discus - 11 seconds (FG before hits )
NInjitsu  Black Moonlight - 12 seconds
Block Jump - 18 seconds(A best skill supposedly)
Absolute Shadow Explosion- 12 seconds (A best skill)

Brace -13 seconds
Smokescren-14 seconds( a best skill)
Ninjistu-Concealment - 20 seconds
Absolute Flash Slash- 15 seconds (a best skill)
Absolute Heart Aimming- 20 Seconds
All decent rabams are 20 seconds + , Ankle Splitter imo is bad. which is still 15 seconds.
also spin is a 8 second cd , with a flow ( which does most of the damage tbf) is 11 seconds

wheel of wrath 7 seconds ( no protection on awakening), flow 12 seconds (not protected).
so if kunos are half your telling me all your cds are 24 seconds +


sage cds:
Spear Bolt 7 seconds flow 7 seconds
Rift Storm 9 seconds ( looks in line with kunos)}
Executioner -17 seconds (flow seems to have no cd )
Lightening Prison -15 seconds flow 9 seconds
Upsurge-10 seconds
englightening bolt - 8 seconds
Sieze - 20 seconds just like kunos grab
Bolt ( your movement same amount as kunos w+f ) -2 seconds
Lightening Surge - 5 seconds
pre-awaken most skills are around the 8 seconds to 10 second mark. litterally 1 Skill thats 40 seconds
seems you may need to revisit awaken kunos skills cds+ damage. No we do not do as much damage as Succession Kuno not even remotely.
But by no means are we in a bad spot. This cd thing you tried bringing into the convo seems like they are inline with awaken kuno. For accuracy you should think why kunos still run bhegs most of the time, imo its balanced but obviously some evasion memes want a adjustment.By the way absolutes do not work the same as succesion variants on kuno otherwise we wouldnt need the awakening kit.

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