i mean, tbh, pvp buff u got for that pve nerf is actually quite juicy. 100% more buff duration and 50% more potent HoT is no small thing by any measure.

yeah thats okay groups stuff i agree (that split timer was a pain!)... but its not that simple when it come to shai. She dosn't have to have Overly OP Pve, but she best be at the top of all classed in PVE, when the dust settles. PA are trying to bring all classes into the same braket of pve (about time), but that's not a fair deal for shai given her position.

Addition (General address)

I would rather shai lack of protection on damage dealers and all around non pvp design was counterbalance by higher PvE outcomes rather than buffing shai’s PvP capabilities so she can defend and take spots on equal terms.

* But she support right? Can group right?

Yeah! Then she boots the group, so do we off set that boosted group PvE per none shai, against shais pve? (cus they just boosted her Group effect this patch as some sort of ‘balance’)

We adjust all classes to need a shai in group to force more group play? To balance out that issues?

So making all classed equal in pve (all including shai) but only when they have shai boofs?(Because we are saying she needs a group, so that’s the scope of balance). Get a bit silly and aint that the same as, or equal to making sure shai is top in Pve to begin with?

If shai become defined as a group only class when balancing, then her effect need to be applied to other classed balancing, when balancing shai against all other classes. Haven’t got a shai, tuff.. and we are back where we were, either putting shai higher up or leaving her at an unfair disadvantages because of how it looks, and ignoring facts.

Saying she is group only means - she is a part of other classes (dependent), we would be saying, shai can only be equal in a group, but all other classes can be equal without here?… that math doesn’t work :P You cannot achive that outcome of Pve equality in that scope… really, think about that one, there is no constant baseline to balance around.

So if we are not putting her at top of PVE and say she need a group to be on par…How would we counterbalance that?

Life skills .. kek. Think the math’s turned out that here passives work out at like 0.45% (not the 5% it looks like) advantage at loggia base gear. She was given them passive before loggia.

It’s so messy, so complicated and PA will not get it right, so just have shai at to of PVE… at least PA can get that right yeah?

Shais, you starting to see why this is not okay? even if you thought Shai OP pve was OP? (that why i got it wrong at first, and said it was okay too.. yeah i was wrong at first) .. it need to be OP, else you are getting f-fed

dont get me wrong, its not like i hate shais, but knowing PA u coulda got just pve nerf to those few skills without any buffs to compensate.

most people that play pvp content would be really happy with the trade, since shai does have its really good grind spots regardless of that pve nerf.

(and, if they were mandatory before these pvp buffs, they are now totally irreplaceable and team that doesnt run shai (1 per every other 9 people) in group pvp is most likely in multiple tens worth of GS equivalent handicap)

I gotta keep an eye on PA and this one because they don’t seem to be playing it fair. I hear shai is good in areas but each time I go look, there is another class as good or near that.

I would say she is good at maire cave (low to mid spot) then I take my DK there and see it’s justs as fast if not faster (can one skill kill and not even move)

Then I take my shai to jade forest and she does well where my dk does not (but I don’t know my DK’s skills well , so know knows), but then you see a lahn making better progress because of burst damage and mobility.

So the more I looks (And pve int my thing so catching up on first hand experiences) the more I see that the stories are not as we've been told (that's I was wrong to say it was fine back when I did, and accepted PA reasoing at the time).

It looks like it’s based on maybe 2 zones where we hear about shai shining (end-game or group, ignore low to mind ranges where casuals live for a long time –so PA should have …well went over that already, but PA took a shortcut)

The worry is, PA is working to bring all classed into the same Pve range, each change to shai is a small step toward this. If she is finally brought down to the same level say in high end areas... well what happens to mid and low? What happens outside of groups, where is the counterbalance?

Shai should be top pve after adjustments, is it fair on other classes? Maybe not, but shai is a strange class that PA added, none pvp focused and it should retain that benefit, the players that pick shai should not pay for PAs mistakes, and the community should not be okay with players beeing screwed over (independent of class)..GG and all that

To be on the same terms in PvP, i have to tag a pvp class, I have to make a new awakening weapon and caphra it. Shai players have been told to do this and be okay with it.. okay, we where (mainly) but the other way around?

If a pvp class wants the same pve as shai, well they can tag a shai in the same way i gotta tag a pvp class... option is there, there is no mechanical issues only a personal one. Be willing to give up the ability to defend and take spots, so higher risk and be rewarded with higher Pve rewards. (But we only see the trash number and clips of shai when it all goes well.. False image of shai)

They don’t wanna do that, they wanna tag 2 pvp classes (I wanna tag 2 shai AP /DP and I still have to make a second SOL,ffs), and what happened if I git good on my DK and they are now on a shai for the extra pve.. Wow they learn how difficult it is to keep a spot on shai and reality kicks in. They don’t wanna have to do that, they wanna pve at the same rate as shai, and still tell shai player to tag a pvp class.. Not reasonable. People are not beeing honest about thier motives

So many excuse have been thrown out there, each time they are destroyed but people keep putting them forward and giving the impression that things are okay or, that shai pve is unfair, The reality is very different, just the voice hasn’t been there to talk about it.

As for a voice and how the community treat shai.. do I have it wrong?

Well let’s look at the lasts community effort to have the game looked at reddit (I know :P) Long post on all classes and the issues, state of such classes. Every classes had detailed conversations on mechanics and gave reasoning’s (reasoning give arguments power)

Shai? A few lines saying something was laughable. Nothing of any value, no reasoning(no power to the argument, empty gesuture from that part of the community).

The group that had created that document put something in about shai so they could not be called out on it, what they have put int? a snippet  from a stream rant basically, they haven’t asked anyone.

15 shais (16 but one was a timepice), so I have run though the early game to level 61-62 many time over many changes. I have mixed with many parts of the Shai community, from pvp to pve to musical and life skilling, have tried all these aspects myself (yes I have made music). I have been a NW shai EVA (Necrotic) and AP (OkiDoki) , and soon to try DR (Roleplay) in NW, I have been a AP eva dr rbf and BA shai. (yeah moved around the guilds too, out of choice)

I haz a channel and I causes a stink on the forums, If anyone was actually looking ,  I could not be missed. But I’ve never hear of these groups that keep producing Commutiy feedback and on my behalf for shai.. strange that!

Even visited NA a few times (to talk to some of you that give me a hard time here, not one wanted to talk..maybe you dont play, thats okay), sat in their BA, played their RBF, joined a guild for a short time as a shai

Do i have to win a PVP torni to talk about a non pvp classed blance PA? cus i ever manage that, im gonna records me putting the skin and the rewards in the trash (Dont know if othere shai have the balls to do that) and i think that may get some attation outside of BDO :P

Let me process this information.

PA made support class. Support class starts supporting people. PA realizes that support class is doing its job so they nerf support class.

OK...

@Snoods,

Level 65 shai when?

No. Shai is a goofball waste of time larp meme class with zero endgame. It makes no sense that all classes are tagged. This discussion benefits no one. Thread has been up for months, is a brainlet shitshow, has no interaction in it from PA and no sign of going anywhere besides off the rails. Zero people are confused about this except off-meds animu-loli foreveralones. Now, fall in line and confirm your state of denial by downvoting below.

Snoods, you're the master of Shai lol I'll leave the Shai-pertise to you. You know her more than most probably. I main Shai myself but I can hardly remember what the labels for her skills are but I can at least fight to some degree. They may be little angri arms and legs danging in a fit of rage but they are somewhat powerful.

If she becomes more of a support class I wouldn't mind it so much but she needs to at least hold her own like more DP/HP and defensive skills ie: block and the abilty to resume buffing after she gets hit while in talent mode. As far as I know you have to swap out, move around/hit air or an enemy then press C again to resume buffs. I couldn't figure out how to resume buffs and can't find search results on this. I can't defeat the final stage of Kzarka because I run out of time, she's too weak for him I think and I have 271 AP excluding buffs. (I haven't tried since they made changes to that fight several weeks ago so it might be easier now I don't know)

It would be nice if they gave her new attacks and perhaps some lifeskill related skills since she's supposed to be a lifeskill / support class and I know it's a selfish request and it wouldn't be fair to other classes but one can dream lol

the kzarka thing; i had the same ap when i did it, was also running rosar. had to use every little thing i could and finaly did it .. so many fails with 3% hp left on the boss, then finaly did it with a few seconds to spare.

I used all the PVE foods and draughts perfumes i could. I pre charge my rage, i got the critical boof from hidel + church boofs.. i didnt have a tent at the time (but if you do use it )

I tried diffrent Pve skill addons (speed on main attack, Monster damage on main attack, Critical on eat this, the rest, de boofs)

Sadly i was'nt making videos back then so i cant show, but it was not easy and i failed a lot :(

i cant be sure,but you may be able to have guildmates there boofing you without a group. i didnt try this, but it may be an option. also remeber artifacts... use damage ones, defence is not gonna help you kill it.. sure you may die, i did :P but time to use some of the resuraction tears we keep getting :)

Learn when the killer moves are, use your playdead, use your V.

oh forgot, i also did it before they buffed her PvE after the tornis, so now what PA are nerfing it back, may be posable still. depend how hard they hit us, and what gear you have 

edit; cant remeber of the top of my head, but if your in tallent mode and get hit out of a buff... i think holding 'f' and mashing a,s,w will cast an avalabe buff thats not on cooldown, therfor resuming. 

do you know how much of a lazy shai i am?... not gonna happen :P