The recent Shai nerf on Global Labs (which is not even testable on global labs) is beyond extreme.

TL;DR:
Shai is completely balanced around a single debuff, and its cooldown is getting multiplied by 6x. To put it another way (Sage trigger warning): unlike a certain i-frame, this actually renders the whole class unplayable in combat. Unlike every other class in the game, Shai also can't easily tag or reroll, due to her Talent weapon limitations. A different fix is needed, maybe by capping -DR values for -%DP skills.

The whole rant (pop a tent & settle in):
Among other changes, the 06/03 Global Labs patch changes the cooldown of the skill Misty Haze from 30 seconds to 3 minutes. Misty Haze is the most powerful debuff in the game, reducing DR & Evasion Rate by 25% each, if you have a PEN Sol. Getting a PEN Sol is another problem entirely.

I hear a bunch of you already muttering "So just reroll 4head!". See...Shais actually can't. Misty Haze scales with Shai's Artina Sol, so a PEN Sol is needed for the full 25%. However, Artina Sol can't be bought, sold, caphrased, guaranteed PEN'd, couponed, or tagged (even to another Shai). You have to enhance one yourself, then you're stuck with it forever. So instead, let's take a look at the actual problem: percentage DP debuffs.

In the past, PA has considered percentage heals broken and has already replaced them on all but a few classes (eg Valk/Drakania). Likewise, percentage DP debuffs can indeed be broken for ultra-high DRs, and high DRs are currently being used to balance new, high-end content like Calpheon Elvia.

I agree that a fix is needed for ALL percent DP debuffs. Obviously, Shai's Misty Haze immediately looks like the biggest problem. However, Shai is literally balanced around the debuff from Misty Haze in both PvE and PvP. Even with a 30s Misty Haze cooldown, Shai is not the best class (or even close to it) in any combat activity. Misty Haze is equivalent to ~25% damage from the DR debuff alone (or even more if you add in the 25% evasion rate debuff).

Nerfing the cooldown of Misty Haze from 30 seconds to 3 minutes effectively removes Misty Haze from normal gameplay. It would be like relying entirely on an E-Buff or a 200% BSR skill just to grind or PvP at all. A cooldown reduction also doesn't remove the issue of -%DP becoming too strong. It just can't be used as often and will become a problem again later.

To make things worse, Shai is also losing all percent DP debuffs from other skills. If percent DP skills need to be reworked, please:
(1) Remove all percent DP debuffs (Shai is currently the only class with this feature)
(2) Grant proper compensation for the resulting damage reductions (eg ~30% if implemented as-is)

The current compensation is 6% accuracy, earlier Super Armor on Misty Haze (which still loses SA entirely in a special mode laughably called "We're gonna win"), and improved mob tagging in parties. This is woefully insufficient. Even a global 25% buff to all skills would leave Shai weaker then before this nerf, and remember, she's not even close to the best class in PvE or PvP. Shai is being nerfed to avoid problems with future content.

As for actual fixes, a general damage buff is one option, but obviously players won't like seeing 'buffed all Shai skills by 30%', even if we're weaker than ever. Instead, why not just cap the DP that can be reduced by -%DP skills? As an example, -25% DR on 500 DR might cap at -80 or -100 DR instead of the full -125. This is still not an ideal fix, but it would at least allow the game to scale at high-end spots without immediately destroying a class to do it.

Unfortunately, this patch isn't even testable on Global Labs. It will be released straight to live servers. This obviously doesn't instill much confidence that Pearl Abyss plans to listen to feedback.

So if you're a Shai main, it's probably time to buy a Dande or just quit the game entirely. There's no copium strong enough for this one.

I'm opting to quit the game. I still have over $110 left in unspent pearls on my account and my SO has even more. I really wish there were laws to protect us as consumers from this shit so we can get refunds when devs do a 180 and screws us. Mind you I have almost all Shai outfits both rare and common ones. I have some on my non-main shai still, and have a couple of costumes I never touched because I capped on pearl item slots. I'm not a whale, and this was the first game I ever allowed buying premium items to support something I liked. But every month they kept making the game worse and worse. Just quitting seems to be the reasonable thing and to pop by at least once a year to make sure they don't delete my account because they say they will after a year of inactivity.

Voting with your money is fine but you also have to collectively take a stand. This is my resolution and hope they change their mind about this stupid decision.

they did. shai was the only one that had it.

this isnt a post about me liking shai nerfs, just pointing this fact out.

You're totally correct. I raised this post before I actually went through every single class's full kit to check.

I was hoping that some other class had 1 skill with -%DP. They do not. Shai is the only one.

I still believe -%DP needs to be removed from the game, but (2) becomes that much more important now: give Shais appropriate compensation. Other classes would be infuriated to see '+30% damage to all skills' to anyone, especially Shais, but that's honestly what we're losing. I'd rather see Misty Haze properly reworked and for Shai to finally get a Blackstar/God-Eye Sol, giving us a monster AP option that could help compensate with like 10-15% buffs.

Part of my current project now is to gather silver/hr numbers on Global Labs (hard cap gear) for all Calpheon Elvia spots and a few others (both low & high-end spots), so I can compare with the numbers after the nerf to push for better compensation. 6% accuracy is a joke when Kzarka/Bhegs/Viper builds already hit 100% at Gyfin without Misty Haze and without Accuracy accessories.

If this nerf goes live as-is, I'll probably be quitting live servers until we get a fix. I'll still keep testing on Global Labs though, hoping for a solution. Like Tooshaitopost, I also have ~100 USD tied up in pearls that I can't get a refund for, but that's life. Shame on me for supporting PA after the rework, I guess.

The problem with changing the % DP or even giving it to another class is that Shai's talent weapon revolves entirely around increasing her buffs and debuffs by a %. Since they are nuking Misty Haze they pretty much are destroying her talent weapon. Think about it. Pen sol only gives an extra 5% attack speed/movement speed than what witch offers baseline. Sol tet peforms equal and under Tet is worse than witch baseline skills yet Shai's are forced to enchant it.

They might as well scrap then entire talent weapon now and make her a normal character like everyone else.

Yes, that's largely where we're at now. I'd be grateful to have people stop saying that they need a Shai at so many spots. On release, KR even asserted that Atoraxxion was impossible without a Shai, and PA made the entire dungeon easier to compensate. Shai should always be useful in a group and never be required.

Capping the -DR% is a stopgap, an emergency fix until a full solution can be implemented. The devs need to pick the highest-end spot where they're actually okay with Shai's current behavior (obviously Oluns was okay until now), and set the DR cap similar to the current behavior there. Continuing the example, suppose an Oluns Golem had ~1000 DR. A -250 DR cap would potentially be reasonable, to match the current behavior. Yes, these are huge numbers, but we've already been playing with them for years! The problem at new spots, eg Calpheon Trolls, would at least be immediately fixed, and the fix is one conditional check (usually ~2 lines in the code) plus a tooltip change.

Ideally, Misty Haze itself needs a full rework, taking in the suggestions of the Shai community from all regions. The best suggestion I've heard so far, after talking with a few (but not nearly enough) other Shai mains would be:

* Remove -%DP Florang skills as planned, replacing it with static -DP

* Leave Misty Haze at 30s cooldown, but entirely remove the -%DP debuff

* Make Misty Haze 'mark' mobs, much like Kuno's 'Shadow Brand'

* When a marked mob is killed, the player killing it should receive a temporary +Monster AP buff that scales with that player's AP (eg +10% stats window 'AP')

  - I would further suggest that AP bracket bonuses get omitted from the value used in this calculation.

An approach like this keeps the bonus AP tightly bounded instead of scaling wildly with ultra-high monster DRs. It prevents low-gear players and/or the Shai themself from relying on Shai's debuff, since players must be geared to get a better buff. Shai's debuff (and subsequent buff) power could still scale with Sol, if desired, just changing the +Monster AP bonus. The bonus would not affect PvP, but -Evasion Rate would still work every 30s for PvP.

The amount of 'Monster AP' should be scaled around the amount of AP given by a Blackstar Awakening weapon. At high player AP, the buff should probably cap out around +30-40 monster AP. Misty Haze's new effect would effectively become Shai's 'Blackstar' (though I'd still like to see a proper Blackstar Sol someday).

As an awakened wiz and chairman of the "Center for Neutered and Weak Classes", I welcome all you Shai's with open arms.
Join us as we continue to complain on forums, point to confirmed data, and receive virtually no feedback or changes as a result.
./hugs

pen sol even with misty haze increased CD is a must have due to shais speed buff that stacks on top of every other similar buff in the game. 

Thank you for your warm welcome. There's a lot of people in this group of misfits and neutered classes. Eventually we'll all be equally crap and it'll be balanced? LOL