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UTC 16 : 9 Mar 28, 2023
CEST 18 : 9 Mar 28, 2023
PDT 9 : 9 Mar 28, 2023
EDT 12 : 9 Mar 28, 2023
My Take on the Shai "Problem" as a Day1 Shai
Jun 23, 2022, 22:00 (UTC)
497 8
Last Edit : Jun 23, 2022, 22:01 (UTC)
# 1

Most of the class discussion lives on Discord or other platforms, but I wanted to air out some long term thoughts in a coherent way.
I've written feedback threads, monsterous documents of changes, etc... but I want to keep this a little more to the point of the issue that is Shai.

Core Issue:
What we as players want Shai to be, doesn't seems to line up with whoever at PA makes the descisions... This needs to change. ASAP.

Either start listening and take Shai players seriously or refund every single Shai player for any character specific purchases.
PA has not delivered on the promise for the class. Full Stop. Shai has been done dirty way too many times and we're quite literally incapable of participating in certain content without jumping thru hoops or being overly exceptional at the class.

What we want and expect is a solid Support Class in the vein of Bard classes in the greater MMO/RPG space. 
That is a Jack-of-All-Trades, half magic, half melee, music playing support that can swing the tides of group combat. While being respectable solo (when played well).

Shai as she stands today is generally regarded as a meme or a joke in most cirmumstances and not in a nice/fun way. Shai players are insulted, meme'd on, or abused on almost a daily basis. This is not ok.
The response to a Shai shouldn't be "oh great, a Shai" or "focus the Shai first, it dies instantly", or "ignore the Shai, its useless", or "run another striker instead"

As far as direct feedback, Shai as a whole suffers from absolutely excessive CDs on most of her support kit. As well as just lacking much that is exceptional compared to other classes. 
The 2 core pillars of Shai since her release have been our speed buff (sun, moon, stars) and our DR/eva shred (Misty Haze, which is now nerfed into almost uselessness)
Nothing else about Shai's kit really makes her worth taking over another class in group content and what little solo pvp viablity we could manage is now basically gone.
Every other cool bonus we offered has either been directly or indirectly nerfed into worthlessness (resist buff!?)

Breaking down what we do have:
25% speed buff (win) - basically need this at rank3 to function as a class. the whole rank system needs to be reworked.
700hp buff (meh, rank3 is solid but cant really take over speed 3)
BSR regen (meh)
20% All Resist (now meh in pvp, not noticeable in pve without rank3)

Delusive is solid, but the 30 sec CD is too long and its barely better than similar effects from Nova or Guardian that have next to no CD and do damage. almost no class has 30 sec CDs on anything for a reason. this game is too fast paced for long CDs. 
Misty was solid, the 30 sec CD was already too long... nerfing it to 3 min just sucks. I think we would have rather it be nerfed to 15% and the CD LOWERED.... like we've been asking for going on 3 years now... Or possibly changed to be a flat (high) -dp amount, or make it stack up to 25% over longer. Stop taking away what little music/support skills we have as is

Fury is only a 20% slow, doesnt stack. damage is terrible still...... there are a dozen specs with 25-30% slows (that also do more damage) or even the 50% mages have. WHY!? at least buff it to 30-35%. The support class should have the best slow in the game or at least close. If were gonna be handicapped by cast times, etc... we should have the ability to bring people down to our level. 
Tremble sucks, CD is long for a very low damage average skill. 
Echo was great in the full DP zone control era, thats over tho. Damage is terrible, youre a sitting duck sitting in it without full DP gear. add DR%, speed it up, buff the damage, something. 

Were Gonna Win - the limitations on this skill just do not make any sense. We can barely get in range to even buff/debuff in PvP with it on without getting clipped by random enourmous AoE CCs from other classes.
Just give us the Melee aura and the Ranged shot + the protections by default. Rework WgW into something else entirely.

E buff is barely worth casting, the animation+swap eats up almost 5 seconds of the 30 sec buff, its only 30ap on top of that.... 

Tuning isnt even a legit skill...

Shai is left with almost no music in her kit now. 
Flute are just mantainance buffs in the current state. PA has gone out of their way to make them take as little time as possible to use (which is fine), but theyre basically all just 1 skill at this point.
Lute... Delusive is barely worth using on its own. Haze has a 3 min cd. I miss even seeing my lute. 
Bongos in general are barely used at all in PvE or even PvP at this point.
The state of Talent is genuinely really sad. I don't any other awakening class uses the awakened kit as little as we do. 

There is nothing left in our Talent kit that makes you go "damn, i need (or even want) a shai in my group!"

Our Pre kit is much the same. 
Get well has an insane 1.5min cd for 2.1k heal... I have almost 10k HP, most people I play with have 6-7k hp... you almost dont even see the HP added to their bar, especially halved in Solare. CD should be 45sec TOPS and % based.
Come Out, Come Out is a 2 min CD... its a SA mobility Skill. Its the longest CD mobility skill by a factor of 10. Should be no more than 15sec, if not 10-12.
Bubble is a 5 min CD, Nova's is 2min.....
Play dead is 5 min CD, Nightmare and Nocturne are sub 15 sec
etc.... down the list
Our rabams are mostly all broken, good thing we were left out of the rabam patch a couple weeks ago...

Anyways... I only point that out to show an issue and to now show some examples of what Bards can do in other games by comparison.
Lost Ark:
Bards get (multiple) -30% attack power debuffs, slows up to -80%, -damage effects up to -80%, Speeds boosts, massive % ap buffs, multiple multi-second duration CCS,  huge % HP heals every ~30 seconds, CC block, and multiple shields. WITH NOTHING HAVING LONGER THAN A 30 SECOND COOLDOWN
Minstrels get much the same, also persistent healing.
bards get all that plus group invis, charm, and more 
bards get similar, plus healing from damage

I could list off half a dozen other games with bard classes, they all have pretty similar kits and effects.

So, what I would like to see is 
1. Shai CDs lowered almost across the board down to a more average level. Nothing but E buff and bubble should have longer than a 1 min CD
2. Effects increased to at LEAST match what is offered by other classes already. slows to 30%, heals buffed, etc...
3. Talent skills need to be buffed where each one feels like its worth a button press and where I want to keep them on CD basically at all times.
4. At least 2 more Talent Skills (replacing Tuning can be 1)
5. Flute skills need to have their current Rank3 versions baseline
6. class needs major animation cleanup all over the kit, stuff is very slow compared to other classes. I need to be able to land my stuff reliably
6.1. Long Casts are fine, but they need to be worth hitting and protected. 
6.2. Songs shouldnt take 5 second to replay, they need to pulse every second or 2. 
7. I need to be able to use skills/move when focused and not be completely useless
9. Nothing should function as a 1-off use skill if its a buff or debuff, ESPECIALLY if it has a moderate-long CD [ie longer than 20 sec] (people i frame or FG  heals, buffs, debuffs constantly) 

Some ideas on concepts:
Guardian DR field/Drak cleanse field could be reworked as Shai Skills
(A) Persistent Song Auras or zones
Stacking based buffs and debuffs (1 song tick up to 3)
More over-time based healing/mp regen/damage
long duration CC like Nova Freeze
Damage Reflect
HP on Hit
Bonus damage on Hit
High intensity/ Low duration effects added on [-50% acc for 6 seconds, - 200ap for 6 seconds, etc...]
Buff that increases other healing effects
Stealth Aura
Group SA buff like Valk
Group I frame disengage

This needs to have happened 2 years ago. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

Last Edit : Jun 23, 2022, 22:17 (UTC)
# 2

Honestly, very accurate. This is nothing new and it isn't just shameful that we've suffered through these issues, it is downright repulsive. How the Shai class has been treated is repulsive. We support players who could play any game but chose to play BDO and are being let down by the class design efforts of PA. If this continues then we will undoubtedly choose to play something else, I'm doing my best to prevent that event but even the older players like myself have come up to the point of no longer wanting to play this game. It's not because we don't enjoy BDO, it is because Shai is constantly being treated as an inferior class choice. That unacceptable treatment is abusive and we cannot in good conscious stand for it anymore. Changes need to come, and we the shai community will see them in BDO's class design or in our game selection.

Last Edit : Jun 24, 2022, 15:59 (UTC)
# 3

Also will add as a side note. 

Shai Sol still has not been addressed. We're 30+ total AP behind in Talent compared to other classes, on top of our talent dps being lackluster. 
Still no guarenteed Pen,
Still not taggable,
Still not swappable,
No Godr-ayed or Blackstar option.

Its been almost/over a year since Blackstar Awakening released. We need an upgrade path from Pen Artina.

So before someone says it... Rerolling is not a solution.
Most of us cant reroll even if we wanted to, without losing 10s of billions. Not to mention constumes/lt/etc... 

EDIT: I added up my own cost to reroll....
6-9 life coupons - $20/ea
Weapon Coupons - $100/ long wait
Exp Coupon - $100
Max Weight - $100 (cant get the limited 50lt back ever)
Name Transfer  - $5
Horse Flute - $35
22 outfits - $25/ea
Max Inven - $80
Awakening Weapon - 20bil (lose 40 bil I can never reclaim, that is my pen artina)
Silver income lost from 1-2 months of potato grinding while learning a new class - ~30bil
Time spent re-questing everything - ~10bil

Totals: ~$1000 and 100 billion silver

Last Edit : Jun 24, 2022, 06:29 (UTC)
# 4

This is so upsetting.

It's not like they don't have a clue, we wrote them a  WHOLE bible about what's wrong with the Shai.

But they don't even bother to answer; they give us useless Apalcas instead.

It's time to consider the Shai as a real class PA; not as your loli wannabe idol.

Last Edit : Jun 24, 2022, 21:35 (UTC)
# 5

Does shai still have terrible damage modifiers against all classes? It's strange how PA could ever think this would be acceptible. Even if Shai can heal and support, it isn't even a long range fighter like Wiz/Witch and both those classes can heal and support. 

Last Edit : Jun 25, 2022, 15:14 (UTC)
# 6
On: Jun 24, 2022, 21:35 (UTC), Written by HockeyJin

Does shai still have terrible damage modifiers against all classes? It's strange how PA could ever think this would be acceptible. Even if Shai can heal and support, it isn't even a long range fighter like Wiz/Witch and both those classes can heal and support. 

Below average for sure. We managed with haze (albeit very hard to do) with a gear advantage. Also gone now. 

But yeah, Valk and mages all heal comparable to Shai. Better even in some contexts. Also have similar levels of support buffs. All we had over them was haze..... Again, nerfed into oblivion.

Literally Shais answer to everything was Haze, which is why the nerf is being protested so hard. 

Last Edit : Jun 25, 2022, 23:26 (UTC)
# 7
On: Jun 24, 2022, 21:35 (UTC), Written by HockeyJin

Does shai still have terrible damage modifiers against all classes? It's strange how PA could ever think this would be acceptible. Even if Shai can heal and support, it isn't even a long range fighter like Wiz/Witch and both those classes can heal and support. 

Average PvP damage done vs all other classes.

Shai Downbad

Last Edit : Jun 28, 2022, 16:42 (UTC)
# 8

lol. They've done nothing but gut our class since they released it and compensated us with bullshit we never even asked for or wanted. PA doesn't care about their players. They released Shai as a pure lifeskill class and were SURPRISED when Shai players wanted to use it in PvEvP. So keep on spouting what we all already know is wrong about Shai, but nothing is going to change. I'm sorry.

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