DP should not be a nearly useless stat in pvp.
Oct 22, 2022, 00:22 (UTC)
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Oct 24, 2022, 04:24 (UTC)
# 31
On: Oct 24, 2022, 00:59 (UTC), Written by Alayavijnana
Find me a 530+ DR Valk and take a kid like Huntler with his meme build and 324 AP. Show me how he puts a dent in it in full human damage gem setup.
If becoming an absolute carpet harder than evasion gauntlets with absolutely no counter whatsoever is not enough for your expectations is "not at the level you'd expect considering the gear investment", then what the hell are your expectations?
Hang on im trying to understand what youre saying...youre saying someone like Huntler with 324ap wouldnt put a dent in a Valk with 530+DR?
Last Edit :
Oct 24, 2022, 06:21 (UTC)
# 32
On: Oct 23, 2022, 19:10 (UTC), Written by Dreadspark
Right now, people be dying in a stagger-stutter or block lock. If TTK gets slower, memes don't die in a 1v1(not an issue). There's no skill in a 1-shot meta, and newbs have already been given 5/7 Pen gears with Magnus/Jetina and 3/6 IV accessories via Capotia + Pity Pot pieces. If newbs are not progressing, then it's because they are not playing. Weird strawman argument for low TTK, but I don't mind which way we go so much. As a Shai, slower TTK lets me use bongos to deny area + some opportunity to get healed. When TTK gets fast, then it's even better because I only have to speed-buff my team.
Also, when TTK gets faster, the player's skill becomes less critical. This lack of talent is why you have FOTM rerollers. I remember in my siege guild when Musa rework hit, like 20 of the bottom worst players rerolled and became top fraggers. They didn't know how to play Musa, but they didn't need to. Thus and therefore, I conclude my speech on why TTK being stupid is stupid. The only acceptable counter-argument is that sometimes stupid is fun.
I will also add in the debate on grabs, even if a Musa gets grabbed and doesn't die due to the purposed DR thing then it doesn't matter. Them retreating from battle is an extended self-imposed CC which essentially means you can focus on other people. I do feel like Musas are overturned though. They need to remove all accuracy from these turbo dmg classes, so they're forced to use lower ap accuracy accessories or nerf the classes dmg. Personally, I would rather lose accuracy because it is less of a nerf in the long run.
dont get me wrong, yes, people die too fast these days, but you cant treat all classes the same. while it makes little sense for a class with turbo mobility and 2 grabs to put away people in 2 skills it would be absolutely crippling for some other class to lack damage to do that in 3-4 skills if they simply cannot move to save their life. hell, some classes cant even disengage from enemy if they fail to combo their opponents due to having no movement options.
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Lv 66
Seeryus
Last Edit :
Oct 24, 2022, 07:13 (UTC)
# 33
On: Oct 24, 2022, 06:21 (UTC), Written by WhySoSeeryus
don't get me wrong, people die too fast these days, but you can't treat all classes the same. While it makes little sense for a class with turbo mobility and two grabs to put away people in 2 skills, it would be crippling for some other class to lack damage to do that in 3-4 skills if they cannot move to save their life. Hell, some classes can't even disengage from the enemy if they fail to combo their opponents due to having no movement options.
Yeah, I agree with this statement. As a Shai player, I don't see it, though. They don't seem to make slower classes tankier nor ranged/mobile types less damaging. From my observations, they create 'fun' metas and look at the game as an RPG sandbox. It was casters for years, and now it's mobility-SA-Nukers. I'd argue that the current meta has more powerful classes than the last one and would worry that extending TTK would result in a caster meta. I do like EU's valk meta, but NA would never adhere to that, and I look forward to the NA vs EU siege.
To get to my point, I think they have to fix DP on a class-by-class basis and not fix it with a single brush. Whether this is via nerfs to a class or buffs to another, that's not my place to decide, but I can tell you that working on balancing classes is not something I envy.
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Dreadspark
Last Edit :
Oct 24, 2022, 07:41 (UTC)
# 34
On: Oct 24, 2022, 04:24 (UTC), Written by Dimitreus
Hang on im trying to understand what youre saying...youre saying someone like Huntler with 324ap wouldnt put a dent in a Valk with 530+DR?
hes not wrong, dp works when u invest in it not when u slap in a cadry and call it a day. also not being able to tank 10 ppl with dp meme build doesnt mean that dp/evasion doesnt work
also doesnt mean the person ure replying to isnt a salty eu crylet whose still malding they lost every na v eu event LOL
instead of more dp brackets just nerf down overtuned classes tbh
Last Edit :
Oct 24, 2022, 08:02 (UTC)
# 35
another problem is devs seem to forget some classes can reach hard to get to places (like ninjas, strokers etc), that some classes can kite almsot indefinately, that some classes have ton of midfight movement options etc and they still gave those classes tons of potected damage and they gave them big damage upgrades while they gave nothing of the before mentioned stuff to other classes.
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Seeryus
Last Edit :
Oct 24, 2022, 09:27 (UTC)
# 36
On: Oct 24, 2022, 00:50 (UTC), Written by Alayavijnana
I immediately knew it was written by NA. Tell me how to kill 520+ DR stacks with 1-2 Cadrys and 293+ AP, please.
Can we have that one-shot meta NA is talking about? Assassins are already useless, we're left with Musas, DKs and Accel Novas being able to play that role, the rest of the class pool is already outdated. And yet here we are, in an NA forum thread that wants to completely destroy PvP in BDO. Ahh yes, the ignorance of inferior meta. Maybe PvP outside of Ruins of Tzol, jfc. No wonder Ninjas have any place in NA PvP if you actually have that problem instead of DR being way too powerful.
Yeah typhical NA brainlets, build full AP with meme meta and then complain that DP doesn't work.
Last Edit :
Oct 24, 2022, 11:18 (UTC)
# 37
If it was up to me, I'd recategorise existing classes evenly into the following three groups:
Low speed - higher damage
Tanky with little to no dependence on iframes, potentially with better protections, such as more access to fg, more health or sustain, and SA. Examples would be shield classes and slower casters.
High speed - lower damage
Can use speed, ranged damage or iframes to stay alive and buy time, less health, sustain and protections than other groups. Examples would be assassin-type Bladers, bows and faster casters. Because they'd be doing less damage with more skills, they'd need higher accuracy and less hit counts so damage comes out fast.
Mid speed - mid damage
Middle of the road access to protections, medium heath and sustain. Most access to grabs. Gauntlets and dualist-type bladers
Other more universal changes that I'd love to be considered would be:
Combine the 6 node-war only skills into 3 and make them standard
(Yianaros's Light/Veil, Pilgrims Steps/Blessing and Knights Defence/Code become 3 damage-type mitigation pathways which become universally part of your class, so people can have a bit more decision making in their builds.
I'd personally love to play as a magic resistant caster, and this introduces a bit more of the typical RPG elements present in other games, but this should only be done if certain classes don't suddenly become unkillable (or more unkillable than they are already), while other classes see little ROI.
I did think this would be what the plan was for the recent Skill Point change instead of just adding more weight levels tbh.
Prevent characters from taking damage from their previous locations
Uncouple the character from the ground during aerial skills so their hitbox actually moves where they're going (during jumps, flight, dives, sidesteps, dodges, meteor dives, divine executioners, rift chains etc)
It's unfair for people to react to a threat and die anyway because of a limitation within the game out of their control.
This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit :
Oct 24, 2022, 14:14 (UTC)
# 39
On: Oct 24, 2022, 09:27 (UTC), Written by LewdShai
Yeah typhical NA brainlets, build full AP with meme meta and then complain that DP doesn't work.
I mean, if the AP build shit works, I wouldn't call it a 'meme meta,' Just because there are multiple ways to go about the game's gearing system doesn't mean there isn't also a problem. There's probems with DP metas too, namely de-valueing the mentioned ninja/nova/etc.
On: Oct 24, 2022, 11:17 (UTC), Written by Rux
If it was up to me, I'd recategorise existing classes evenly into the following three groups:
Low speed - higher damage
Tanky with little to no dependence on iframes, potentially with better protections, such as more access to fg, more health or sustain, and SA. Examples would be shield classes and slower casters.
High speed - lower damage
Can use speed, ranged damage or iframes to stay alive and buy time, less health, sustain and protections than other groups. Examples would be assassin-type Bladers, bows and faster casters. Because they'd be doing less damage with more skills, they'd need higher accuracy and less hit counts so damage comes out fast.
Mid speed - mid damage
Middle of the road access to protections, medium heath and sustain. Most access to grabs. Gauntlets and dualist-type bladers
Other more universal changes that I'd love to be considered would be:
Combine the 6 node-war only skills into 3 and make them standard
(Yianaros's Light/Veil, Pilgrims Steps/Blessing and Knights Defence/Code become 3 damage-type mitigation pathways which become universally part of your class, so people can have a bit more decision making in their builds.
I'd personally love to play as a magic resistant caster, and this introduces a bit more of the typical RPG elements present in other games, but this should only be done if certain classes don't suddenly become unkillable (or more unkillable than they are already), while other classes see little ROI.
I did think this would be what the plan was for the recent Skill Point change instead of just adding more weight levels tbh.
Prevent characters from taking damage from their previous locations
Uncouple the character from the ground during aerial skills so their hitbox actually moves where they're going (during jumps, flight, dives, sidesteps, dodges, meteor dives, divine executioners, rift chains etc)
It's unfair for people to react to a threat and die anyway because of a limitation within the game out of their control.
My take would be much of the same, though I figure the 'tanky' classes should be more reliant on correct positioning with somewhat limited mobility, rather than having alot more protection necessarily. They should, however, be actually tanky instead of dying in one KD.
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Lv 64
WizardPiag
Last Edit :
Oct 24, 2022, 14:27 (UTC)
# 40
Focusing on the specific matter of the topic itself, everything in terms of balance can be solved with a Hidden Threshold
A threshold that determines how much dmg someone recieves or outputs with X Class/ X Combo/ X GS.
You start from scratch and create this threshold for the entire game completely rebalancing it with hardcap/softcaps.
PA never dissapoints and they are going towards the right direction.
Crimson Desert Combat development is proof of that, hope we'll see it on an MMORPG too.
Buffing/ Nerfing is an endless cycle that only combats the symptoms.
Eliminate the source and the symptoms go away.
Happy Grinding.
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