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#Warrior
Awakening Warrior, a duelist, in a large scale meta
Jan 13, 2023, 13:15 (UTC)
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Last Edit : Jan 13, 2023, 13:15 (UTC)
# 1

Instead of piggybacking off of someone elses post to state my own interpretations of what changes would be good for the class, I'll make those here.

I'll start with addressing the elephant in the room. Warrior has been stigmatized for a very long time by the community, and honestly? For good reason. Warrior was the first class to gain Awakening back in 2016, garnering jealousy and a very long lasting impression of imbalance as normal unawakened classes didn't stand a single chance to Awakened Warriors, even post Awakening launch Warrior cemented itself as one of the best duelists in the roster, not to mention its iconic trait of Lingering Super Armor, or LSA for short. This was the devs bandaid solution to Warrior, an almost entirely unprotected kit, but you could change that by blocking for 1s which then grants every single skill in the kit SA for 3 seconds, and this was refreshable at your discretion. This was at a time where open world pvp, dueling, and dfs was at an all time high.

This was of course inherently toxic and later addressed by the devs. But the reputational damage to the class was already done as many players absolutely despised having to fight a seemingly invincible class that had a block and could quickly maneuver around in permanent SA whilst having a grab. 

2018, The big strip. The devs decided that there was both too much CC and too much protections in the game. This was impactful for everyone, but this was also the patch Warrior lost LSA. And as you could imagine when your kit is unprotected to begin with and the devs solution was to slap everything with LSA - This was where the viability of Warrior in any sort of large scale content began to rapidly decline.

2019, Succession release. Alternate specs to each class utilizing and empowering Pre-Awakening abilities while locking themselves out of the Awakening kit. Generally it meant being more protected, having CC's on protected abilities, high damage, and overall easier to play than their awakening counter parts, as they had to manage two kits rather than one. Many of the Succession specs focused more on group content.

2020, The introduction of Core skills. With the aformentioned protection/cc strip and the release of Succession the devs realized Awakenings needed some power back via Cores. While this was nice, it didn't change the fact that Warrior hadn't gained a single protected skill outside of Cores, which everyone had gained.

Mid 2021, Corsair was released and she introduced a new mechanic, Guard Break, along with % block damage on certain skills. These new mechanics eventually bled down to other classes, such as Musa or Maewha, classes that really struggled against shields. With damage starting to rise at an alarming rate these mechanics made sense a year or two ago when blocks were a lot stronger, simply because there was less damage in the game. In Warriors case this change was severe for two reasons. 1. Because our awakening block is fragile to begin with, and 2. Because we rely on Q cancelling. With a single person being enough to melt your block at this point, this change only further reduced Warriors viability in group settings. 
What is Q cancelling? Warriors speed, damage, and survivability comes from being able to cancel animations at all times, with the introduction of Guard Break once your block breaks you are severely gimped in all three as the Q button becomes literally disabled.


Dec 2021, Reboot. Classes gained all sorts of new shiny toys, it was an overrall success for just about everyone. Classes got new protections, new skills, more damage, bigger AoE's, smoother cancels, the whole nine yards. Warrior got some much needed AoE and damage increases, along with some other smaller things. But the one critical change we needed, we didn't get, which was protection. So the classes stance on large scale hadn't changed. 


Aug 2022, Warrior was hit with two sizeable nerfs. We lost 30 DR from buffs via our skills, and Grave Digger went from a 30% slow for 10s to 10% for 5s. These were massive changes that impacted both our survivability and utility, and yet another nerf in large scale viability. 

Fast forward to 2023, the stigma from back then is still resoundingly loud while the class' performance in group play only continues to tank, some people still think we have LSA, and some people still claim its overpowered. But Warrior hasn't gained a new protected ability since 2016. In my nearly 7 years of playing this game I've only lost protections and gained unprotected floats. I've only lost more and more viability in group content. While Warrior might remain relevant in 1v1, the game has shifted to being large scale focused for quite some time, and Warrior has never been able to keep up since 2018. 

I'm an Awakening Warrior, a duelist, in a large scale meta. 

Now that I've finished my TED talk, here's what I personally think needs to change for Awakening Warrior as someone who has only played this class since launch:

1. Reckless Blow. Our only "protected" Knockdown in the Awakening kit. It functions similarly to Sorcs GRJ, except we don't have a Core for it to make it usable outside of 1v1. The SA simply needs to be extended to cover the entire animation or make a Core for it just like Sorc. As it stands you'll be cc'd before you even get to swing your sword.

2. Ankle Break. Reboot forced us into doing Ankle Break>10% Pulverize if we want to do quick damage, but that isn't going to work out in group content. You're doing an unprotected Ankle Break to get your crit buff up mid fight. Removing the Bound on Ankle Break and making it FG or SA would help with dealing our damage in a group setting. 

3. Charging Thrust Flow for Awakening. Mobile has an SA variant of Charging Thrust in the Awakening kit, it's a perfect example of an SA mobility skill warrior needs to effectively engage/disengage. Currently if you want to move in SA you have to use Slashing The Dead, one of our main damage skills. 

4. Head Chase. Our one and only I-frame. A while back for some reason the I-frame on Head Chase was moved to the middle of the animation, so the start and end are completely unprotected, combine this with desync and you have one of the most unreliable I-frames in the entire game. My solution is to move it to the beginning and cover the entire animation length so it can be used as a reactionary I-frame rather than something you predict with(which as said is unreliable because of desync)

5. Fix Chopping Kick and Shield Charge hitboxes. Currently if you Chopping Kick or Shield Charge away from someone your hitbox remains at the starting point, allowing you to be grabbed as if you never moved. 

6. Q Block. Increase the HP pool on Awakenings block so it doesn't literally evaporate in any sort of group setting. 

7. A new unique passive that provides a 5%-10% DR buff, this makes sense for a Warrior-type class who doesn't have many I-frames.

8. FG on Pre Awakening C swap. Warrior constantly C swaps in and out of skills, most notably Slashing>Swap>Pre Awake Block. Adding FG to Pre Awake C swap would close this gap in the front but leave room for being punished from behind. 

9. Change Merciless to be like Mobile where it's ranged and remove its bound/float on it, and also increase swing speed.

10. Allow Tempest to be used on Quick Slot so we're not forced to use it after Pulverize or Reckless Blow.

11. Greatly inrease the animation speed of 100% Solar Flare to be closer to a normal Solar Flare, remove the stun

12. Overall trade damage. Beef up the %'s across the board and remove down attack modifiers. That way we do respectable damage when trading against players while not increasing combo damage.

Those are my thoughts.

Last Edit : Jan 13, 2023, 14:39 (UTC)
# 2

im fully with you on this 1,
since release only ever playd, and wanted to play warrior and it just hurts to see it powercrept like this with nothing substantial and needet ever given while everyone gets more and more. Ontop of having PPL complain all the time cuz they either got rolled by a Warrior that only ever playd that class for years and is actualy real good at, or got early on touched in the wrong way by 1. This Stigma just wont come off nomatter how far behind we are left
Here more % dmg, there more protections, alot even get new USEABLE skills..
What do we get? 3rd rabams that are unusalbe whatsoever, and arguably to some extend 2nd rabam too except niche use of shield tide
Magus skill that is our 6 UNPROTECTED FLOAT BTW, that has almost no use and cucks you in other aspects as it replaces Deep Thrust

Reboot did help and give us needet things, but... its more of a bone we got chucked at as it never adressed the biggest issue, Protections and movement

My Sidenote for PVE: we need to do skillcombos of 6+ skills in the same time others use 3, and still even when tryharding fall off quite notable in high end spots. We need more dmg and or more skills that are usable in PVE to rotate more sicne we burn fast through our good skills and are left with poke-skills. Increase the DMG and relativly increase the PVP DMG reduction to match it as we dont need more dmg in PVP really iimo

And as for PVP, Rengo summed it up niice and neetly ( while making me real sad to be at once remindet of all this that i try to ignore) 

Last Edit : Jan 14, 2023, 10:59 (UTC)
# 3

Good post. Shares many themes with this: https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=30610&_categoryNo=57&_searchType=0&_sortType=6&_orderType=False&_pageNo=1&_pageSize=25&_searchDay=0&_forumListType=0

On points 1, 2, 3, 4, 9 and 10 I completely agree.

On point 5: this is also an issue with Flow: Slashing of the Dead.

On point 6: I'm not sure any amount of resonable extra block would be sufficent to stop block from getting blown up by 2 range classes in largescale, but it'd help.

On point 7: I hard agree, even if, to my knowledge, on other classes share that mechanic. The closest thing is the PA Wizard, Corsair (the worst of the bunch, I'm well aware), Valkyrie and Drakania have.

On point 8: This would help a lot, and so would being able to swap from preawakening to awakening with anything that isn't Cswap or Head Chase. We have good methods to go into pre-awakening, but the reverse isn't true.

On point 11: I believe the damage per second increase this would entail isn't healthy for the game. In my opinion, the hitbox should be greatly increased so that it can be used as a legitimate engage.

On point 12: I partially agree, but if you compensate the damage increase with modifier removal, we'll not achieve a net increase that the class needs, as it's currently some of the lower damage per class in the game (in my experience).

I also believe other changes I've mentioned in the thread I linked at the start are neccesary, such as removing Solar Flare stiff, giving Solar Flare superarmor by default and making the Solar Flare core give the stiff. This would also help new players ease into the class, and allow greater freedom when choosing a competent core skill.

Last Edit : Jan 13, 2023, 16:25 (UTC)
# 4

1. Reckless Blow. Our only "protected" Knockdown in the Awakening kit. It functions similarly to Sorcs GRJ, except we don't have a Core for it to make it usable outside of 1v1. The SA simply needs to be extended to cover the entire animation or make a Core for it just like Sorc. As it stands you'll be cc'd before you even get to swing your sword.

Agree

2. Ankle Break. Reboot forced us into doing Ankle Break>10% Pulverize if we want to do quick damage, but that isn't going to work out in group content. You're doing an unprotected Ankle Break to get your crit buff up mid fight. Removing the Bound on Ankle Break and making it FG or SA would help with dealing our damage in a group setting. 

Agree

3. Charging Thrust Flow for Awakening. Mobile has an SA variant of Charging Thrust in the Awakening kit, it's a perfect example of an SA mobility skill warrior needs to effectively engage/disengage. Currently if you want to move in SA you have to use Slashing The Dead, one of our main damage skills. 

Agree

4. Head Chase. Our one and only I-frame. A while back for some reason the I-frame on Head Chase was moved to the middle of the animation, so the start and end are completely unprotected, combine this with desync and you have one of the most unreliable I-frames in the entire game. My solution is to move it to the beginning and cover the entire animation length so it can be used as a reactionary I-frame rather than something you predict with(which as said is unreliable because of desync)

Agree, could also fix SA gaps in the kit too e.g., Slashing.

5. Fix Chopping Kick and Shield Charge hitboxes. Currently if you Chopping Kick or Shield Charge away from someone your hitbox remains at the starting point, allowing you to be grabbed as if you never moved. 

Agree and as Yber said, slashing also.

6. Q Block. Increase the HP pool on Awakenings block so it doesn't literally evaporate in any sort of group setting.

Agree, at least make it closer to pre-awak - we can't even move in this block. 

7. A new unique passive that provides a 5%-10% DR buff, this makes sense for a Warrior-type class who doesn't have many I-frames.

Agree - nice idea.

8. FG on Pre Awakening C swap. Warrior constantly C swaps in and out of skills, most notably Slashing>Swap>Pre Awake Block. Adding FG to Pre Awake C swap would close this gap in the front but leave room for being punished from behind. 

Agree, makes no sense that we can't swap with some degree of safety, especially considering how often we have to swap to be safer.

9. Change Merciless to be like Mobile where it's ranged and remove its bound/float on it, and also increase swing speed.

Agree

10. Allow Tempest to be used on Quick Slot so we're not forced to use it after Pulverize or Reckless Blow.

Agree

11. Greatly inrease the animation speed of 100% Solar Flare to be closer to a normal Solar Flare, remove the stun

The animation speed doesn't bother me too much, but the width of the cone of dmg could be improved.

12. Overall trade damage. Beef up the %'s across the board and remove down attack modifiers. That way we do respectable damage when trading against players while not increasing combo damage.

Imo buff the dmg and keep the modifiers, I don't find warriors dmg OTT when compared to a number of classes. That said, I understand the need to be careful of further exacerbating the damage creep. 

From Ybers post: removing Solar Flare stiff, giving Solar Flare superarmor by default and making the Solar Flare core give the stiff. This would also help new players ease into the class, and allow greater freedom when choosing a competent core skill.

This would be great.

Last Edit : Jan 13, 2023, 19:03 (UTC)
# 5

100% agree with everything said here! 👍🏻

One other thing that I'm going to borrow from the other thread is that we need more "usable within Longsword" updates to Awakening skills.

Adding forceful skill swaps from Longsword to Greatsword would be a HUGE QOL update. Currently Head Chase is our only one, and I've gotten used to it and C-Swapping, but after playing other classes that forcefully swap you via some attack skills, it just feels so much nicer and smoother to be able to just cast your attacking skills without needing to worry about remembering to Head Chase or C-Swap before.

There's been so many times where I either zone out, panic,  or mess up my combos and just stand there like a sitting duck because I'm trying to use a Greatsword skill with my Longsword and it does absolutely nothing.

Please Pearl Abyss, add more "usable within Longsword" updates to certain Awakening skills like Frenzied Strikes or Heavens Cleave via hotbar to allow for smoother gameplay.

Edit: No idea why I'm being downvoted, if it's only added via hotbar, it literally wouldn't affect any of your gameplay or mess with any of your combos either, because you would have to go out of your way and add it to your hotbar for it to work.

Last Edit : Jan 13, 2023, 19:27 (UTC)
# 6

Warrior is already impossible to CC without a grab because he can sit in SA block. What the warrior discord should be asking is for SA blocks to be adjusted.

Lv Private
Gawilar
Last Edit : Jan 13, 2023, 20:43 (UTC)
# 7
On: Jan 13, 2023, 19:27 (UTC), Written by Fietro

Warrior is already impossible to CC without a grab because he can sit in SA block. What the warrior discord should be asking is for SA blocks to be adjusted.

I feel like if you understood the matchup you'd know that almost all of Warriors movement and combos are unprotected, with various gaps inbetween everything. 

Last Edit : Jan 14, 2023, 01:13 (UTC)
# 8

what would warrior sacrifice for becoming better in largescale? 

i mean, there are classes existing that are allegedly made for largescale(and sucking everywhere else) and still being bad in largescale even there atm in this meta. shouldnt these classes get priority in getting buffs in their allegedly designated content?

warrior is a least very good in smallerscle fights and can do tasks that arent frontlining in nw/siege.

Last Edit : Jan 14, 2023, 10:16 (UTC)
# 9
On: Jan 13, 2023, 20:43 (UTC), Written by Rengo

I feel like if you understood the matchup you'd know that almost all of Warriors movement and combos are unprotected, with various gaps inbetween everything. 

Yeah unprotected kappa

244 4634
Lv 63
Hnnie
Last Edit : Jan 14, 2023, 10:58 (UTC)
# 10

What classes exactly are bad at largescale and supposed to be good at it? Gonna have to ask you for a detailed list of names, as well as an explanation of why these supposed "largescale classes" are bad at their "designated content", and lastly, a well defended explanation of why that belongs in an awakening warrior thread. If you have nothing of substance to say and lack enough knowledge about the class, the problems it has and how to tackle them, and on top of that, are unable to offer any kind of argument or opinion about the points of discussion presented in this thread, I humbly suggest you keep your ignorance to yourself instead of showcasing it to the BDO community.

It's well known wizards are old senile men with bad eyesight, but I don't think you need to take your roleplay to the forums.

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