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#Archer
Archer changes to make it more viable in aos and other areas its lacking
Jan 23, 2023, 16:09 (UTC)
3392 21
1 2 3
Last Edit : Jan 26, 2023, 09:51 (UTC)
# 1

Title: Archer PvP changes to mak it more viable in aos and other areas its lacking in
Family Name: Lurkiz

Region (NA/EU): EU

Suggestion/Comments:With the release of maegu, recent buffs to already strong classes or overbuffs to decent ones and the current state of the game I want to write down my opinions (partly based on ideas I have read in this DC and mostly just my own experience) on how archer would become better, more fun and more viable in content like aos/ow pvp/small scale.
I will split this into three categories:
1. Important (things I consider vital changes with the highest impact)
2. Nice to have (further enhancements of the kit or gameplay but debatable whether it's necessary and balanced)
3. Wishful thinking (not important, could be cool but not needed and some might be too much)
 
1.Important
First of all In my opinion there are 2 areas in which we need improvement.
Survivability and protected trade damage.
-speed animation of all movement skills up by 10-20% or give an as self buff (this one is since I'm unsatisfied with our speed, we are sometimes too slow and a slow on top can make it unplayable, I don't feel like every single movement skill needs to be faster but most so to make it simple and not having to write it down for every single one seperately
 
 
-change steady breath to full iframe or just completely remove the part that has SA (where u awkwardly stand)
I actually like steady breath current iteration but the downsides are completely unnecessary and should be removed. 
 
-change piercing cry to iframe into SA.
More survivability and helps against grabs when u link steady breath into pc
 
-change spear of sylvia: increase aoe by 10%+
Keep the dmg but apply it in one hit, just stab the ground once and boom big SA dmg done.
The skill is extremely niche and near useless in most scenarios. This would give us a good SA trade skill
 
-give bolt of radiance SA (I think it had it on release but not sure) OR give earth shatter FG
Reason for this is simply to up our trade potential when pressured. Range as protection when people stick to your ass is bs. I know we have crazy damage potential but as soon as focused it's pretty dogshit
 
-breeze full iframe
I still feel robbed about this when breeze released and also after reworks. Why does it have an SA part? No reason at all.
Would make it a very very good iframe to dodge some nuke or get out of sticky situations
 
-kicks sth sth
Remove them to not have this shame in the skill window/ make one good melee kick that looks fancy, is SA and deals actual damage or whatever. I really dunno what to do with these but they are just useless rn
 
 
2. Nice to have
-make glide iframe into SA, make it faster, maybe even the iframe part a small tp. Similar to hash base dash would be cool but probably too much but I hate our basic dash. This change would change our neutral play the most and could add to survivability more than anything else dependant on what dash exactly we could get. 
 
- make core FB apply to marked bloom aswell or remove a useless core to add this. 
This one is tricky, might rather fall into category 3 wishful thinking but would be really nice to have.
Also raises trade potential and looking at a busted fox lady (maegu) I don't feel bad asking for this anymore.
I'd even nerf Full bloom a bit by reducing this hilariously huge cone and make u actually aim at something to make up for this.
 
-FG on the magnus skill and sped up animation.
More damage on 2nd hit
The magnus skill feels underwhelming, the ccs are cool but no matter how you would want to use it there is always a better option.
-rabams:
We only have a single rabam that is good. Nature shattering arrow, the rest is not worth mentioning at all because they are either slow, unprotected, low damage or all of that at once. Please make them usable and switch some of them maybe for a decent disengage skill
 
 
I'm not completely done with my feedback and will keep this as a WIP for now.
I'd love to hear some opinions from other seasoned archers regarding these ideas.
If you have any questions or it's not clear why I want a specific change feel free to reach out and I will try to explain it.
Last Edit : Jan 25, 2023, 01:48 (UTC)
# 2

I picked up archer a few months ago and its been very love hate... When its fun its super fun but when its bad its REALLY bad. In arena is asbolutely terrible, easily the single worst class in there bar none. 
A lot of people have this very weird take when it comes to archer buffs, where they'll say "Its strong in open world/ node war, any buffs would break it" ... I mean the statement is fair but are we going to act like literally every other class wasnt in the same situation? Look at succ sage right now. The class was already perfoming very well yet it got buffs across the board. Awakened ranger needed a tune up but it did NOT need the amount of buffs it got. 
So yeah, I think some of these changes WOULD make the class a little too strong, but in a world where every single class is a little too strong, itll just make it good. and thats what is needed. 

One thing I would add though, is if they dont buff damage or protections much, they absolutely need to buff the dr scaling and class v class mods. Archer dies in one combo to literally anything in aos, and its obvious it has terrible dr scaling... If a class like succ wizard will be allowed to have decent tankiness, archer needs to as well.

Last Edit : Jan 24, 2023, 08:38 (UTC)
# 3
On: Jan 24, 2023, 05:22 (UTC), Written by SpeedLlama

I picked up archer a few months ago and its been very love hate... When its fun its super fun but when its bad its REALLY bad. In arena is asbolutely terrible, easily the single worst class in there bar none. 
A lot of people have this very weird take when it comes to archer buffs, where they'll say "Its strong in open world/ node war, any buffs would break it" ... I mean the statement is fair but are we going to act like literally every other class wasnt in the same situation? Look at succ sage right now. The class was already perfoming very well yet it got buffs across the board. Awakened ranger needed a tune up but it did NOT need the amount of buffs it got. 
So yeah, I think some of these changes WOULD make the class a little too strong, but in a world where every single class is a little too strong, itll just make it good. and thats what is needs. 

One thing I would add though, is if they dont buff damage or protections much, they absolutely need to buff the dr scaling and class v class mods. Archer dies in one combo to literally anything in aos, and its obvious it has terrible dr scaling... If a class like succ wizard will be allowed to have decent tankiness, archer needs to as well.

When Archer was busted for a while and a strong PVP class it was absolutely obnoxious to play against.  The extra range make it a horrible experience as they where doing CC's at ranges nearly all other classes couldn't land a single skill.  With the broken damage meta they simply then killed any CC'd target and it was nothing less than completely cheap.

So it was nerfed and all those so called PVPers never showed their face on Archer again.

Protected Area isn't that powerful either especially in 1v1.  It was signifcantly nerfed and most combo's will simply kill right through protected area either by damage or simply being longer than PA.  It's also easy to just burn up the limited time on PA.

Last Edit : Jan 24, 2023, 19:39 (UTC)
# 4

Having tried many other classes, I don't enjoy them as much as I do Archer. But the so called 'fixes' and 'changes' they applied have been far and few in between and almost absolutely useless, making him a less viable class to play.

He's especially squishy with not enough to make up for it so essentially, all glass, no cannon at this point. There's more points than I can count where Archers just die standing up so then even a good protected rotation won't actually protect him. His movement feels below average in comparison to many other classes and that does not gel well with the poor defence. 

The only thing I can think of that could offset the poor defence is, hear me out, evasion buffs; similar to mystic or striker which, I hear Maegu also now has. It makes sense both theme and class-wise, he's not meant to be tanking damage, that much is clear, so boosting evasion sounds better as well as returning a lot of the movement to him.

I don't think a damage buff is a good idea, we don't really want the balance to be tipped further, it's going to result in a bad domino effect. But increasing survivability is better than the state Archer is in now.

I appreciate that they tried to give some consideration to other classes which, for some, were also sorely needed but at this point with the release of Maegu and Woosa, Archer really feels like a forgotten class. Archer is almost a bad joke at this point that PA made.

Last Edit : Jan 25, 2023, 01:44 (UTC)
# 5
On: Jan 24, 2023, 08:37 (UTC), Written by JackBelling

When Archer was busted for a while and a strong PVP class it was absolutely obnoxious to play against.  The extra range make it a horrible experience as they where doing CC's at ranges nearly all other classes couldn't land a single skill.  With the broken damage meta they simply then killed any CC'd target and it was nothing less than completely cheap.

So it was nerfed and all those so called PVPers never showed their face on Archer again.

Protected Area isn't that powerful either especially in 1v1.  It was signifcantly nerfed and most combo's will simply kill right through protected area either by damage or simply being longer than PA.  It's also easy to just burn up the limited time on PA.

Hey I completely agree with you. I was around when archer was busted, and it was absolutely horrendous to play against. I'll even go as far to say it was even worse than the succ wiz meta (might be a stretch). 
That said, the game is very very different to what it was back then. Lets think about why archer was able to do what it did back then. Well, its at damn near render range and would just kill you before you could get to them. This is no longer the case for nearly any class, as every class got massive movement buffs across the board over the last few years. 
Back then, Archer had a very good movement string that didnt cost any stamina, and would out maneuver even musas. Nowadays, an archer can just barely escape a tamer. 
Not just these type of points either, your fear is already in the game. A class that can insta kill anything cc'd on the floor very cheaply? I can think of a few. Succ wizard, awakened corsair, succ ranger, What's worse is these classes have PROTECTED cc's at range AND have Z axis attacks, archer has 0 protected ranged ccs that can use Z axis. unless you count piercing cry I suppose. 
So then, if these other ranged classes will be allowed to be as strong as they are (And I admit they are very strong), then there is no reason archer should just suffer. I would also totally be ok with NO archer buffs, as long as movement is nerfed across the board, and other ranged classes are nerfed too, but we know that wont happen.

Last Edit : Jan 25, 2023, 12:58 (UTC)
# 6

Archer blatantly weakest class and need a lot of work.

Can't fight close quarters, protections don't work been cc'd and grabbed on ALL I.F's FG's SA's to add to this archer also can't disengage, get away or kite, all while being the most squishy

What has archer got that's actually decent and up to the standards of all.other classes?! MARKED BLOOM!! that is it, the rest has elevation problems long animations we have recoil on everything, fall animations.

Main hand needs total rework, its a total mess!

I've suggested multiple ideas for rework, when rework was announced, during reboot and feedback after, most ignored and I'm tired of it. 

Problem is there are less and less Archers to complain and more and more new undergeared players moaning 'hEy I gOt kIlLeD oUt of rEnDER rAnGe' in large scale

Spent 3k euros on my archer and tried every build imaginable. I well not be spending another cent.. while overpowered classes like sorceress get buffed and archer is left a laughing stock

Last Edit : Jan 29, 2023, 10:49 (UTC)
# 7

Like the OP mentioned, Archer skill animation is too slow compared to the state of other classes in the game right now. Increasing the skill animation speed should take highest priority imo. The skill animation speed should be increased 20% at the very least for it to be any useful, it can be added as a skill effect or just increase the base skill animation speed of all the skills.

Another issue with Archer is that it cannot do any damage while getting chased especially if it is classes with grabs. Currently most classes in the game can cover long distances with one skill that on Archer it takes 3 or 4 skills combined and almost 3 times more stamina. Archer cannot do burst long distance movement without choking on stamina right now. Either lower that stamina cost on skills or give Archer a long distance disengage skill like other classes have.

Next i will suggest some changes on the some of Archer skills:

Storm of light:

In its current state it is completely useless in any scenario. An unprotected medium ranged skill that can only be used after another main skill with almost no damage. The only way to make the skill somewhat useful without much change is to increase the damage and add back the DP shred and Bleed skill effect that the skill had before the last change.

Steady Breath:

Make the skill iframe part a bit longer and cover a bit more distance, at least the same distance as Glide skill can cover. Make the Super armor part at the end of the animation cancellable with other skills.

Uproot and Marked bloom  core skill changes:

Give Uproot Super armor and remove the skill from the core skill list, Add Maked bloom as a core skill and give it Super armor as the core skill effect.

Double tap:

Replace the Knock back cc effect on first hit with Knockdown effect. Remove the Knockdown effect from the second hit and give the second hit a bit more damage.

Ravenous talon:

Right now it's a melee ranged unprotected skill with low damage. Give the skill Forward Guard effect and more damage so that the skill is at least useful in PVE.

Next i will suggest some changes on the Skill Enhancement:

Arrow Explosion skill tree:

Both options are unprotected with long animation, give them Super armor or Forward Guard and make it so that animation can be cancelled with other skills since the skills root the Archer in place and add a bit more damage.

Flow:Verdure Clout Skill tree:

Give Stiffness cc effect on Radiant Ensnare option.

Now regarding the Kick skill tree in the pre awakening/main skills page:

Please completely remove them, no matter what change you make these skills are simply not useful on Archer considering their small melee hit box. Replacing them with new crossbow skills would be nice since Archer doesn't have Succession.

These are my suggestions as I think the class needs it desperately. 

Last Edit : Jan 30, 2023, 20:05 (UTC)
# 8
On: Jan 29, 2023, 10:49 (UTC), Written by Blobtik

Like the OP mentioned, Archer skill animation is too slow compared to the state of other classes in the game right now. Increasing the skill animation speed should take highest priority imo. The skill animation speed should be increased 20% at the very least for it to be any useful, it can be added as a skill effect or just increase the base skill animation speed of all the skills.

Another issue with Archer is that it cannot do any damage while getting chased especially if it is classes with grabs. Currently most classes in the game can cover long distances with one skill that on Archer it takes 3 or 4 skills combined and almost 3 times more stamina. Archer cannot do burst long distance movement without choking on stamina right now. Either lower that stamina cost on skills or give Archer a long distance disengage skill like other classes have.

Next i will suggest some changes on the some of Archer skills:

Storm of light:

In its current state it is completely useless in any scenario. An unprotected medium ranged skill that can only be used after another main skill with almost no damage. The only way to make the skill somewhat useful without much change is to increase the damage and add back the DP shred and Bleed skill effect that the skill had before the last change.

Steady Breath:

Make the skill iframe part a bit longer and cover a bit more distance, at least the same distance as Glide skill can cover. Make the Super armor part at the end of the animation cancellable with other skills.

Uproot and Marked bloom  core skill changes:

Give Uproot Super armor and remove the skill from the core skill list, Add Maked bloom as a core skill and give it Super armor as the core skill effect.

Double tap:

Replace the Knock back cc effect on first hit with Knockdown effect. Remove the Knockdown effect from the second hit and give the second hit a bit more damage.

Ravenous talon:

Right now it's a melee ranged unprotected skill with low damage. Give the skill Forward Guard effect and more damage so that the skill is at least useful in PVE.

Next i will suggest some changes on the Skill Enhancement:

Arrow Explosion skill tree:

Both options are unprotected with long animation, give them Super armor or Forward Guard and make it so that animation can be cancelled with other skills since the skills root the Archer in place and add a bit more damage.

Flow:Verdure Clout Skill tree:

Give Stiffness cc effect on Radiant Ensnare option.

Now regarding the Kick skill tree in the pre awakening/main skills page:

Please completely remove them, no matter what change you make these skills are simply not useful on Archer considering their small melee hit box. Replacing them with new crossbow skills would be nice since Archer doesn't have Succession.

These are my suggestions as I think the class needs it desperately. 

Storm of Light was one of the worst changes and I also asked for it to be reverted to the last version straight after they made the ghastly change

Storm of light used to useful and was handy for fast moving targets as you would get a couple hits in with bleed etc and it looked super cool, just needed some more damage. And they destroyed it, like we got time for all that animation and use it after certain skills with no effect lol

REVERT STORM OF LIGHT NOW TO LAST VERSION!!

Double tap ain't too bad just need less recoil faster more damage a cc before a KD can be beneficial.

All skills need to be faster less recoil join up better with other skills.

And what's going to happen with line of fire with most skills, archer is only ok on flat terrain which is an absolute joke lmao. Can't be on be flat terrain, Do I have to list the dozen skills that only shoot in a straight line?? What kind of engine is this???

Half the time I use Arrow Explosion it misses everything, even worse that it's short range.

It's like the enemy is down hill or on a roof or there's a stone in front of me and you go through the lust skills to use and you're like 'crap' got nothing after you used Marked Bloom and you got recoil to deal with knocking you off roofs, shifting you out of position 

We need some serious compensation

Last Edit : Jan 31, 2023, 16:58 (UTC)
# 9

Full agree on all points above. I think the animation speed issue is especially important.

Last Edit : Feb 2, 2023, 13:10 (UTC)
# 10

Archer never been viable in Small scale/gvgs for the sole reason there are many better options (excluding its release cuz of population low DP), it also depends on regions meta so if you notice one or two Archers able to climb then exceptions do not make the rule.

Regardless of proposed changes, if any class got highlighted during AoS season 2 is Archer especially in EU due to the influx of players from Ru & Mena with the AoS top classes which pushed classes like Archer down, it is nothing new as Archer was surviving in season 1 due to lack of enough population (mainly).

Here hoping PA devs notice Archer small scale lacking.

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