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UTC 17 : 14 Apr 22, 2024
CEST 19 : 14 Apr 22, 2024
PDT 10 : 14 Apr 22, 2024
EDT 13 : 14 Apr 22, 2024
#Suggestions
Dodge rate (evasion) limits for simpler balancing
Apr 19, 2023, 16:18 (UTC)
1903 36
Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 15:43 (UTC)
# 11
On: Apr 20, 2023, 01:55 (UTC), Written by SEDE

Probably because the gear would be significantly less interesting if the only variables were DR and AP.

I wonder why i still see posts crying about evasion so often when its actually not in the most amazing state currently - and i think its fairly dishonest to claim that you "barely hit" evasion players with 1k accuracy + ebuff on awakening ninja, which also happens to be my main class aswell, so i know for a fact that it isnt true.

Now do I think you SHOULD need to have 1k accuracy + ebuff in order to deal with evasion on awakening ninja? no - because the class is meant to be evasion itself and therefore should not require that amount of accuracy in order to have some efficiency against other evasion targets, since it is simply not possible to reach that high accuracy when playing evasion. but that is a different topic entirely.

To get back to the topic of your post:
I disagree with your suggestion. Evasion currently is not really in a problematic state when you look at it from an actual endgame PvP perspective. People on 1200-1300 evasion, which is typically the range your typical hardcap sicil centaur gauntlet player for example would operate in, often times get popped so fast by actual endgame players with accuracy that it becomes pretty difficult to tell the difference between them and a glass cannon player when it comes to tankiness (or rather lack thereof) often times a DR stacked build on a valkyrie or a succ warrior will be tankier in these scenarios.
What your suggestion would effectively do is make it so that even players on very low accuracy builds, which is what evasion is currently still good against, would now suddenly also deal very significant amounts of damage to any evasion player, even FULL DP builds, because of the dodgerate hardcap and base hitrate of 30% you suggested.
I just cant imagine a world where this would ever be the right move.

This is so wrong by so many standards. Evasion is good against other evasion classes AND DR Classes. where as DR is not. DR players need accuracy to hit evasion players, and evasion players DO NOT need accuracy to hit DR players.

Its literally the reason why EVERYONE is rolling to evasion because its broken. The only reason why evasion players stay alive is because of their gear and nothing else. When you get CC'd as a DR player, you are dead. When you get CC'd as an evasion player you can get up and run away.

The problem with the game is there is too much damage, and evasion players can take advantage of that.

Literally the only people complaining about "MUH EVASION" getting a nerf are the actual evasion players. It's a pandemic and needs to change.

Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 16:02 (UTC)
# 12
On: Apr 20, 2023, 15:42 (UTC), Written by GodSlinger

Literally the only people complaining about "MUH EVASION" getting a nerf are the actual evasion players. It's a pandemic and needs to change.

FYI I play DR glass cannon myself and i still think the suggestion in this topic is absolutely ridiculous.

People advocating for evasion nerfs in the current state of the game often seem to be either not really well informed about how things actually are AND/OR are players that get mad at evasion because they dont have nearly enough accuracy and therefore feel helpless when they come across players with some higher evasion.

On: Apr 20, 2023, 15:42 (UTC), Written by GodSlinger

When you get CC'd as a DR player, you are dead. When you get CC'd as an evasion player you can get up and run away.

Simply false. Classes that have the ability to stack pretty high DR/HP/Resistances like double cadry valkyries or succ warriors can quite literally do the same thing, sometimes even better than the evasion equivalent depending on the build hitting them.

Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 16:05 (UTC)
# 13
On: Apr 20, 2023, 16:02 (UTC), Written by SEDE

.
Simply false. Classes that have the ability to stack pretty high DR/HP/Resistances like double cadry valkyries or succ warriors can quite literally do the same thing, sometimes even better than the evasion equivalent depending on the build hitting them.

Sorry, we will just need to agree to disagree, but you are the one who is wrong on this.

Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 16:07 (UTC)
# 14
On: Apr 20, 2023, 16:05 (UTC), Written by GodSlinger

Sorry, we will just need to agree to disagree, but you are the one who is wrong on this.

Thankfully i know for a fact that i am not wrong on this. :)

This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 16:17 (UTC)
# 16
On: Apr 20, 2023, 16:07 (UTC), Written by SEDE

Thankfully i know for a fact that i am not wrong on this. :)

Again, the problem is damage. Its the fact that evasion players can do the same damage to DR players while DR players cannot do the same damage to evasion players even though they have the same attack.

Evasion only need accuracy to hit other evasion players, otherwise, its effective against DR players and evasion players. DR does not equal accuracy and in most cases accuracy costs way more to get then evasion does. And when it comes to statistics, Pearl abyss wont release any damage calculations because they have no clue what they are doing when it comes to balancing, so pretty much everything you're saying is an assumption. Its clear cut with the trend everyone is playing evasion because when it comes to having the same damage but not getting hit compared to getting hit, it's a clear choice to pick.

It's a damage issue. Clear cut.

Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 16:19 (UTC)
# 17
On: Apr 20, 2023, 15:39 (UTC), Written by SEDE

Its not really a personal point of view. Its a FACT ninja has high base evasion, evasion passive aswell as evasion self buffs built into his kit. It is undeniably meant to be a class that uses evasion. The reason we use glass cannon builds is because in order for evasion to even start doing anything you need so much of it that have to significantly sacrifice damage and it is not possible to have high enough accuracy to reach basic combat efficiency on awakening ninja while using evasion gear. Its just a flawed class design by Pearl Abyss and realistically should be adjusted at some point in time. However, this ninja specific talk is fairly irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
 

some people are against slows and agaisnt resistances, but when its about some other unfun thing in the game that their own class uses then its "my class is meant to use this", "this mechanic isnt that bad", "l2p", etc :D :D :D 

Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 16:45 (UTC)
# 18
On: Apr 20, 2023, 16:19 (UTC), Written by WhySoSeeryus

some people are against slows and agaisnt resistances, but when its about some other unfun thing in the game that their own class uses then its "my class is meant to use this", "this mechanic isnt that bad", "l2p", etc :D :D :D 

I don't really see how one of the two main defensive stats can be considered a "unfun" mechanic to be honest. Its like saying "oh DR is unfun because i cannot kill the hardcap double cadry valkyrie with 293ap" sounds pretty ridiculous right? Its almost as if the stats do exactly what they are supposed to do.

I know you are just trying to pull on any straw you can possibly find to "get back at me" because i critique your constant whining and forum/discord spam about awakening wizard, but I was merely saying that its a design flaw that a class has passives and selfbuffs for a specific thing, yet majority of its playerbase actively choose not to use them because their class would be severely lacking in many important aspects if they were to go down the gearing path that the developers obviously intended for the class. As i have said in another post already I myself am not even using evasion for that specific reason.

Its also ridiculous to compare a basic defense stat like DR or evasion to mechanics like heavy and lengthy slow effects or CC resistances which have extreme impact on the way someone is able to control their character for an extended period of time or are literal "get out of jail free" cards in the case of resistances.

Try again another time Whyso, this is a really weak argument.

Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 16:55 (UTC)
# 19

I don't see Evasion being the problem here. The problem is, as has already been mentioned, that AP brackets are broken.

If you look at a ~700 GS DR build with only 1 accuracy accessory (e.g. TET Turo) you'll already be at 920ish accuracy with basic buffs. This is pretty meta for DR and some people go for way more accuracy after 305/309 AP. If you have 920 Accuracy you pretty much negate 1150 Evasion, which means the Evasion player won't get up. (Would put you at around 70% hitrate without buffs)

If you compare to someone running 1300 Evasion, while still being able to one combo you, then you are probably comparing a 400b DR build to a 1T+ Evasion build. Which is not a fair comparison. Evasion is basically good to play god vs undergeared players or in large scale.

The reason why "DR" builds get blown up is because people build full AP. Double Disto, Offensive Lightstone Sets, Offensive Crystals etc. giving up defensives wherever they can. I don't see why someone purposely giving up all defense should get up from the ground while being able to kill others without CC.

Last Edit : Apr 20, 2023, 17:12 (UTC)
# 20
On: Apr 20, 2023, 16:45 (UTC), Written by SEDE

I don't really see how one of the two main defensive stats can be considered a "unfun" mechanic to be honest. Its like saying "oh DR is unfun because i cannot kill the hardcap double cadry valkyrie with 293ap" sounds pretty ridiculous right? Its almost as if the stats do exactly what they are supposed to do.

I know you are just trying to pull on any straw you can possibly find to "get back at me" because i critique your constant whining and forum/discord spam about awakening wizard, but I was merely saying that its a design flaw that a class has passives and selfbuffs for a specific thing, yet majority of its playerbase actively choose not to use them because their class would be severely lacking in many important aspects if they were to go down the gearing path that the developers obviously intended for the class. As i have said in another post already I myself am not even using evasion for that specific reason.

Its also ridiculous to compare a basic defense stat like DR or evasion to mechanics like heavy and lengthy slow effects or CC resistances which have extreme impact on the way someone is able to control their character for an extended period of time or are literal "get out of jail free" cards in the case of resistances.

Try again another time Whyso, this is a really weak argument.

ok then, who finds evasion fun and balanced at this point? altho truth be told its mostly an issue on overtuned classes and thats balance issue. then again same was isse with slows, which were given to too many classses on too easy to apply skills yes devs gutted slows in general instead of clipping classes.

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