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UTC 8 : 35 Jul 23, 2024
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#Suggestions #Community Support
Sorc succesion Issues
Apr 30, 2023, 14:42 (UTC)
2658 33
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Last Edit : May 1, 2023, 09:21 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name: TheGamerRc

Region (NA/EU): EU

Suggestions/Comments

I would like to start by saying that Sorc Succession is definitely not in a bad place, having great balance both in PvE and PvP. However, as is normal, it has some problems that tilt that balance towards a quite negative side, and that's what I would like to talk about in order to improve it. First, I will comment on the general problems that affect the class itself, regardless of its scope and adding how I think it could be improved. Then, I will give my opinion focusing on each particular scope and providing what things should be changed.

General problems

1. Movement: This is the biggest issue in our class, to the point of daring to say that Sorc Succession has some of the worst movement in the game. It drastically affects PvE and PvP; Spots where fast movement is required (known as pack-to-pack movement) and in spots with great distances like Upper Gyfin and Oluns. To be concise, we have movement issues in the vast majority of spots in the game. Meanwhile, we have a bunch of classes with spammable movement (even if they're unprotected), several dashes, or some kind of long-distance movement skill. I'm completely aware of that certain classes (like Witch or Nova succesion) deal with this "problem", however, their class design are completely different to Sorc.

In the group PvP scenario, the experiencie is somewhat terrible. You simply can't keep up with the group and reposition yourself properly. About the1v1 matchups against classes with decent movement are mostly completely out of our control since we are not able to catch up to them and are dependent on them coming to us. Which is very frustrating. A way to at least be able to get into the range to apply our range damage would be fantastic so we are not completely unable to make a move.

1.1 Fall animaton

Many times, when we want to perform our dash in the air, our character stops because the height is "slightly high", causing our character to be in a frozen state for one or two seconds until we can execute another skill. It's extremely annoying. 

In addition, when we are performing our air dash and want to execute Midnight Stinger or Rushing Crow, our character gets stuck in mid-air as if there was an invisible wall, even when the ground is really really close to us. 

These are two problems that limit our current limited movement, forcing us to depend of Midnight Stinger and Rushing Crow on the ground. It would be great to increase the distance from ground that we can do our both skills, it would also fix the character stopping while simply doing our air dash.

-Movement suggestions-

My proposal here is to reduce the cooldown of Prime: Rushing Crow to 2s together removing the distance of using Prime: Midnight Stinger being shorter if you're out of shards. This small change would definitely give us a breather in PvE/PvP without turning the class into a speedy class. 

In addition, or as an alternative to the previous suggestion, another interesting proposal would be to implementing a new skill, helping the awakening which also needs some help in its movement. However, we must be careful when implementing a new skill that affects both; a new skill for Awakening could cause a class where their dodge has an iframe, to also have a lot of movement. This is easily solvable by giving the skill a high CD of 7/8s and not being able to use it while on CD. 

Nonetheless, this does not solve the problem of Succession at all. If a new skill is added, Succession should have the adjustments mentioned above. I know that is not possible to add a skill that affects both aspects where the awakening does not benefit, since this new skill will be in the main skill tree. I also believe that adding two new skills for each aspect that adapt to their needs is not the most viable solution. Although, since both classes need adjustments in their movement, it is definitely not a bad option either.

2. Black Wave: Desired by any Sorc Succession player, whether they play PvE or PvP, we all agree that Prime: Black Wave needs to have accuracy, as currently its accuracy is 0%. Black Wave is not the only skill that has 0% accuracy, but it definitely needs it the most. A range between 8% to 12% would be a good improvement.

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PvE Improves - Casting Speed & Skills

Sorc Succession is a class that uses almost 90% of its kit, being almost all of them a really fast skills, with different inputs and no flows unlike other classes in succession. This makes her a high APM class and uncomfortable to play. My proposal to fix this problem is quite simple, and we already saw it recently with its awakening; to make Prime: Claw of Darkness have a +10% casting speed buff instead of +5%. 

Although this problem does not affect PvP too much, in PvE there was a huge difference when awakening received this change, making the class noticeably more comfortable to play with. It doesn't directly solve the issue of the class being high APM, but we can't change the way the class is built. However, making the class act slightly faster definitely helps in this type of classes.

-Skill Changes-

1. Prime: Bloody Calamity - Bloody Calamity has undergone changes in its cooldown over time, however, it is still not enough. It is our only T3 skill with a cooldown of 16s, which makes adding addons useless in the PvE realm and counterproductive to use in any imaginable situation. In turn, its damage is insufficient for a skill with such a long cooldown and that visually looks so imposing (although the latter is personal). 

  Its cooldown should be reduced to 12/13s while adding some extra damage to the skill. If you think that lowering the cooldown would make HP recovery of the skill too strong, reducing from 92 to 82/72 would be understandable. After all, we also have our Magnus skill as healing support.

2. Prime: Dream of Doom - As like Bloody Calamity, its damage in PvE is not enough to have a 10s cooldown. The cooldown is fine, but I think it should have more damage to compensate.

3. Prime: Darkness Released -As Dream of Droom, its damage for PvE is insufficient. It feels a little weak.

4. Prime: Abyssal Flame - It would be great to add aditional cancels for this skill, such as after Dream of Droom, Bloody Calamity, Dark Backstep or Black Wave.

-Other suggestions-

Prime: Dark Flame - Together the Ultimate version, I strongly think that this skill should be slightly faster. It is worse when the game causes FPS drops (50-70), the skill becomes really tedious to use because of this.

Shard Explosion - I feel like this skill could have a improved Prime version for succesion that flows from other skills like could be Black Wave or Abyssal Flame.

PvP Improves - Accuracy problems

Because succession is pulling its damage from the Mainhand, it already becomes a difficult task to implement accuracy accessories in our builds while maintaining relevant AP brackets. Also because the upcoming new region will be bringing us new Hoom crystals which will provide an additional amount of evasion/hp/dr to people who have already been using the current hoom crystals, so basically every evasion build will replace them and gaining an extra amount of stats that have to be penetrated (+120HP, +12DR and +20Evasion, to be precise from the current Hooms). Even with the new Journal added which gives +20accuracy, the problem will persist. 

-Suggestions-

Prime: Black Wave - One of the solutions is the already demanded accuracy buff on Black Wave.

Prime: Violation - Other of our main skills that currently have 0% of accuracy as well. Around +8-12% would be great.

Absolute: Shadow Kick - Currently it have +6% of Magic Accuracy buff, I think it would be great to be +9% instead.

Absolute: Beak Kick - Currently our only way of applying an evasion debuff to our target is by using Beak Kick. Which is a skill that is not really practical anymore due to its area along with its extremely risky way of using it aside from specific combos only viable in controlled 1v1 scenarios. 

Adding this evasion debuff to Prime: Turnback Slash will give us a tool to more reliably apply it while not going completely out of our way. The skill is still well telegraphed and unprotected so it would be also be a adding to a fair risk/reward ratio. It would match the similar applicabbility as awakening, wich have the same evasion debuff on the skill.

-Others-

- Add an additional cancel for ultimate shadow eruption to be used after rushing crow. It would help to catch people in the PvP scenary, fixing slightly our limited movement.

- Decrease the cooldown of the rabam Crow Nightmare  to between 19/23s. The current 28s is way too high to use meanwhile its other rabam version is only 10s. 

- Change the rabam Abyssal Blow to being full Frontal Guard instead the start of the skill only.


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Top of Form

This is a post with the sole objective of improving the existing problems of our class while being as objective as possible and understanding where our problems come from, far from trying to make our class "the strongest" or anything like that, please understand it and do not create unnecessary drama or toxicity in the comments.
And of course, any kind of feedback is welcome as long as it is done with respect and elaboration.

Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 17:38 (UTC)
# 2

I think it would be nice if Sorc Succession also had this opportunity to be a more balanced class, we lack SA, its CD are too long, it lacks Accuracy, mobility to get out of a situation is very limited, damage in PVP is very low In general, it would be good to review everything and add changes that make it a more playable class, in PVP/PVE it is well below other classes, both in: Damage, Sa, Frontals, Mobility, Accuracy, etc. A review and balancing of the class would be quite good and so we could all enjoy the class more.

(Just an opinion as a player with no intention of disrespecting other classes or anyone).

Lv Private
Tsyx
Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 18:56 (UTC)
# 3
On: Apr 30, 2023, 17:38 (UTC), Written by Dysaster

we lack SA, its CD are too long, it lacks Accuracy, mobility to get out of a situation is very limited, damage in PVP is very low In general, it would be good to review everything and add changes that make it a more playable class, in PVP/PVE it is well below other classes, both in: Damage, Sa, Frontals, Mobility, Accuracy, etc. A review and balancing of the class would be quite good and so we could all enjoy the class more.

(Just an opinion as a player with no intention of disrespecting other classes or anyone).

Damage vs DR is actually very high in PvP and we have a perfect mix between SA's and FGs that you can rotate between which is the best of both worlds imo so I wouldn't want that to be touched.

However the accuracy is definitely an issue and I don't want the class to be "broken" or "over-buffed" but we could definitely use some more tools to deal with evasion and the accuracy on Black Wave and -eva debuff on Turn Back Slash are great suggestions for that without breaking the class or over-buffing it.

Lv Private
Taiga
Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 19:16 (UTC)
# 4
On: Apr 30, 2023, 18:56 (UTC), Written by Edmar

Damage vs DR is actually very high in PvP and we have a perfect mix between SA's and FGs that you can rotate between which is the best of both worlds imo so I wouldn't want that to be touched.

However the accuracy is definitely an issue and I don't want the class to be "broken" or "over-buffed" but we could definitely use some more tools to deal with evasion and the accuracy on Black Wave and -eva debuff on Turn Back Slash are great suggestions for that without breaking the class or over-buffing it.

Hard no seeing as how sorc can rock eveasion pretty darn good herself. giving something the ability to have evasion, counter it would be a bit broken.. 

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Lv Private
Arya_Megumi
Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 19:31 (UTC)
# 5
On: Apr 30, 2023, 19:16 (UTC), Written by Dolch

Hard no seeing as how sorc can rock eveasion pretty darn good herself. giving something the ability to have evasion, counter it would be a bit broken.. 

Evasion is nice on awakening for sure because you rely on SA trading and you have shadow leap which procs the evasion rate buff but it doesn't fit succession at all and absolutely no one plays evasion succ sorc on the glass cannon spec with a FG heavy kit whose only job is to deal damage as fast as possible, and the "evasion spec" has some of these tools to deal with evasion, why shouldn't succession have them too?

Lv Private
Taiga
Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 19:52 (UTC)
# 6

Hijacking this topic to refer to my topic here: [Sorceress Succession: Budget Woosa].

I'll add most of this to that table when I have extra time (and credit back).

Fun fact. Dark flame stutter is the animation itself, for some reason PA decided that it's supposed to be that long. Unlike the flowy skills of all of the other classes in the game, we get to hover midair like twats (smh dealing damage and frontal guarding) until we land the skill. I swear, this and many other quirks of succ make me think that as much as much as PA loves Sorc Awa, they hate Sorc Succ :D . Probably imagined that sorc will be played with a scythe, so the alternative is purposefully underwhelming.

On: Apr 30, 2023, 19:16 (UTC), Written by Dolch

Hard no seeing as how sorc can rock eveasion pretty darn good herself. giving something the ability to have evasion, counter it would be a bit broken.. 

I bet homie didn't even notice you are talking about Succession and just came in to dunk on anything Sorc.

Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 20:05 (UTC)
# 7
On: Apr 30, 2023, 19:52 (UTC), Written by Zoroaster

Hijacking this topic to refer to my topic here: [Sorceress Succession: Budget Woosa].

I'll add most of this to that table when I have extra time (and credit back).

Fun fact. Dark flame stutter is the animation itself, for some reason PA decided that it's supposed to be that long. Unlike the flowy skills of all of the other classes in the game, we get to hover midair like twats (smh dealing damage and frontal guarding) until we land the skill. I swear, this and many other quirks of succ make me think that as much as much as PA loves Sorc Awa, they hate Sorc Succ :D . Probably imagined that sorc will be played with a scythe, so the alternative is purposefully underwhelming.

I bet homie didn't even notice you are talking about Succession and just came in to dunk on anything Sorc.

No I didnt actually, stated a simple fact. As having a class who can do both, evasion, accuracy coupled with never being able to be touched thanks to there never ending iframes would make them broken. its not that hard to see unless you are blind.

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Arya_Megumi
Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 20:11 (UTC)
# 8
On: Apr 30, 2023, 20:05 (UTC), Written by Dolch

No I didnt actually, stated a simple fact. As having a class who can do both, evasion, accuracy coupled with never being able to be touched thanks to there never ending iframes would make them broken. its not that hard to see unless you are blind.

I'd like to contact your supplier if you think that the only thing preventing Sorc Succ from being S Tier in PvP is accuracy on a couple of skills.

Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 20:16 (UTC)
# 9
On: Apr 30, 2023, 20:11 (UTC), Written by Zoroaster

I'd like to contact your supplier if you think that the only thing preventing Sorc Succ from being S Tier in PvP is accuracy on a couple of skills.

yea? heres a fun fact sorc isnt the thee only class dealing with sh** accuracy maegu, guardian have it pretty bad only time guard doesnt is in her succ, its not much of an improvement 

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Arya_Megumi
Last Edit : May 1, 2023, 00:39 (UTC)
# 10

Good suggestions, 100% agree.

I would add 3 things:

- Change the Prime: Dark Flame input to s + lmb

- Change the Prime: Black Wave input to s + rmb

- Remove shard consumption on Prime: Rushing Crow 

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