Family Name: Snoods

Region (NA/EU): EU

Suggestions/Comments: 

Remove Class based evasion rates.

Allow gear to determine defenses and class build type, freeing up players to swaps between class and gear freely, without being locked into a class build type.

Achieved this by removing class based evasion rates*1 and replacing them with flat bonuses as we do with DR. Evasion rates have no aged fairly with the progression of available gear, and this restricts build diversity. E.g. things have got stale!

End the long running meta of Evasion being over power due to limitations in available accuracy when high evasion gear is coupled with Class evasion rates, which has provided an advantage that seems to be an oversight rather than intended.

Evasion rates work to scale in 2 ways as I understand it; one being it’s a hard percentage again any counter accuracy value(total).

So no matter how much you upgrade your gear, any high evasion rate class is getting a stronger advantage than a class without a base rare (for free and taking it beyond gear availability, and cheaply above average counters.. so not nice for the player trying to counter)

We don’t do this with DR. and we see the differences! Time to balance out the game a little.

Extended;

Maybe we need to discuss flattening out accuracy rates too, Comment are open.

My biases?

I have a 1.45k eva set; I can easy take advantage for the current issue (by just picking a class with rates). But it is an issue and the game would be more interesting with it addressed.

Play RBF, NA and EU - Shai

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1* passive rates that are always active and do not need a skill to act, and have no end to duration

There is some missconception in this post. There is no difference between 10%evasion rate and 50 evasion, they do literately the same, replacing rate to a flat number would not change anything.

What PA should do is make the base stats the same for the classes and uniformize the passives, but that was suggested many times already they just don't care.

Class based evasion is not the problem. Its good to have classes who benefits some stats, but there must be balance, when you get too strong with some stat you must weaken other. All games do it properly (mostly). BDO need to reright it from scratch.

I am all for more varieties for both character stats and diferent type of armors and weapons. I would love more RPG gameplay... But that would lead to even more problems I guess.

Don’t saying you’re wrong but do we know this for a fact that 50 flat value would equate to 10% rate?

Would love to see the data on such finding for my own knowledge

Not saying a class should have no rates at all, but a fix passive that always active a free ride. Bit much.

Would be a step in the right direction if all rates were attached to none iframe skills with fix time limits. So at lest a skilled player has a chance to counter the advantage.

As it is now, such classes as striker at end game, can go full evasion and stand there, without the need to do nothing, not even participate in that game. Pure number limitation means they can be invulnerable and they don’t even need to press a skill.

Sure this is endgame, but there is an issue. Just like shai shred rates where an issues (advantage at end game pve, and addressed (need to be)) so should this issue.

Bigandshiny tested it, but garmoth also have a calculator.

Also it's easy to test it since PA added miss indicator, tho I don't even know why some ppl have this missconception in the first place.

was kinda hoping you could link me to to the test them selves, i know big and shiny did test and we are all very impresses cus he can use calculus and most cant :)

When I when to look for some of his stuff on DR i could not find it as it was wrong and updated over time... happens..

But meh. Faith is faith lets not question.

Like i say, not saying you’re wrong, and i guess I will have to test it myself, wich is a shame if the work has been done but your unwilling to share it?. I know that's hard for some to understand, that i would ask for the workings, and also agree it probably correct... 

I will not explain how it would look like 50=10% and yet be inccoret becuse i think that would be lost on you :P Just asking for the link to the workings, not much :(

RE; 'tho I don't even know why some ppl have this missconception in the first place.' becuse when people ask, no one tells them the info and acks them to just accept. hope that clear it up for ya? dont want you beeing left confused.

Reason why it useful to have a link to his work?

If rates are applied differently to flat values, then;

A passive of 15% vs accuracy rate of 13%( say 5% guild and 2% passive,+5% skill rate) mean 2% miss(Excluding flat valuse)

Then if player has 500 eva and other has 600 acc or more. There would be no miss if % and flat number are the same, as this dwarfs the 2% diff (100/5=20%) (the way rates and flat values are listed, can lead to the ‘misunderstanding’ that they are different in some way, else why list them 2 ways. Don’t ask like it stupid to question.)

If they are applied differently; out of 100s of hits we may see one miss. Would only take one miss to show it not the equivalent. Big and shinny my have done this test, what you say may be correct. I just wanna see, and big would have no issue showing me with. This is why he writes out his work, so we can look and check and not take it on faith.

This is difficult to test, more so now skills auto level, as a lot of skills have a high rate already, so along side any class acc + skill rate + guild, its hard to get a big diff on a standing target for tests.

And just to be clear cus people assume so incorrectly these days :P (You have to state what your not saying, to not say it is not enought ><)

Im not assuming a rate is applies as an addition to flat rates, nor have I stated such.. I do not think its works like 500+15%=575..

Well I don't have link saved either, if I remember correctly he post these on the reddit usually, but everyone knows garmoth and there is a calculator for it based on his formula https://garmoth.com/character/default/pvp-hitrate

And I wrote the other part cause the tooltips do not have any kind of meantion that those do affect your total stats rather than giving a flat chance, and usually they do work this way in other games aswell, so there is no reason of anykind to assume it work differently here in the first place. Mostlikely people mix it cause people say that classes with eva passives/buffs scale better with evasion, but that doesn't mean that they literately have better eva scaling, it's just the result of not having diminishing return on evasion (neither on DR btw).

Thanks for getting back to me on that. cals good and all but not what I’m looking for, still want to find that page whit workings.. i know i saw it once :) someone may read though and post it for me (that’s a low chance).

Cus it helps to know when formulating the next suggestion /thinking. If you’re right, that’s cool. it’s a befit to learn something, but I also want to make sure its correct and not an assumption of correctness. so i will always put a challange forward to be tested in debate.

The topic of class passive rates can be completly separated from the issues of if flat rates =% when it come to balancing out eva. So if you right, next time, I need no mention it at all if they are the same. Side topic really, a hook :)

Passive are bad :P they should all need to be active on a skill for a set time, so that skills can play its part, and someone can’t just max gear and stand there. This would not be a reduction in a classes overall rates /evasion, just how they are applied.

But hay, this is was the forums are for right, to go over these things? At least you took the time to engage and discuss

Remove class based HP rates too while you're at it.