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#Shai
Shai - Getting things sorted out...
Jun 5, 2023, 20:16 (UTC)
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Last Edit : Jun 7, 2023, 14:31 (UTC)
# 1

Ok so instead of asking for a radical redesign in this post or making it a complaint post- I'll try to just accept that the class changes concerning shai are here to stay and we can only hope for improvement on.... whatever she is supposed to be (I don't know anymore).


Lets look at the major paradigms here for what shai is in every area of the game:

I will list them out and number them, so you can tell me if you agree or disagree, and discuss why.

1) Shai is a easy-going PVE adventure class, or beginner class

Shai an easy time slaying mobs in this game as long as the mobs are not too spread out. Shai's AOE is much smaller than virtually all other classes with the exception of her 3rd attack in 1-2-3 (RMB, RMB, RMB). She has a hard time maintaining her stamina, as most actions she takes consumes a considerable amount. Movement speed overall in her kit relies on her dash attack to traverse around, which is just a horrible feeling. Once the class has moved into mid-game and late game, she is very far behind the rest of the cast. Lack of good constant AOE, moving from pack to pack, and keeping her resources in check, are all weaknesses she has.

Do I agree that she is a "Shai is a easy-going PVE adventure class, or beginner class"?- sure why not, she is easily approachable and easy to use for any new player to this genre. 

2) Shai is a PVP class

So you guys made it so shai has a -50% or more damage ratio against the vast majority of other classes. Shai has a small handful of attacks, most of which were not designed to combo an enemy player combatant. This discourages her doing any kind of PVP attacking. It also means you cannot defend yourself well at all. It's safe to say that PA doesn't want her to be a class that lays down any kind of HP damage. Cool cool cool.

Do I think "Shai is a PVP class"?- In my opinion, NO she was not designed to kill, only to support in combat matters. 

3) Shai is a siege tool

When I look at her skill kit, I can't help but think to myself that PA made her to be a siege tool. She can push with a team to advance on an enemy fort, giving support buffs to her allied attackers. She can use her kit to stifle enemy attacks and hold the line against offenders. I feels like she was made with this purpose in mind.... and only this purpose.

Do I think "Shai is a siege tool"?- YES, I think the designers were looking to improve the tactics in the siege warfare scene and made a class with the tools to do exactly what they wanted. However, she needed to be other things than just a siege tool, so they scrambled to give her purpose in other areas too, whcih lead to bad lifeskill passives and other nonsense. 

4) Shai is a life-skill focused class

Shai was given a set of weird passive life-skill related things in her skill tree that buff and artificially boost her in areas like combat EXP, base life level, and extra weight per level. I say "artificially" because these additions to her skill kit are very weak and hold no real value over time. Shai does not do any life-skill activity better than any other class. In fact, because of her lower mobility and slower rate of initial attack speed, she is less favored to gather from scattered item pools or animals in general. Classes like for example Musa, do it better than her by a large margin.

Do I think "Shai is a life-skill focused class"?- NO, she was not made with this primary directive in mind, only after she was made did this happen to her in the secondary design phase. All her lifeskill related traits are bad, just bad. 

5) Shai is a support-style party focused class

Shai has a short list of spells that boost allied players and increase the overall combat efficiency. She is possibly the best class for this because the buffs she gives are powerful. Given her party buffing abilities, she is often a good match for the... group content? that is in BDO. A down-side to this is, there is not that much group content in BDO.

Do I think "Shai is a support-style party focused class"?- YES she does a great job being a classic bard in the support role of fantasy RPGS, she boosts the party and does healing. However, this is her best feature that can't be used as much as players would like.... because there is not much opportunity for effective group playing in BDO. 

After thoughts here as a level 66 shai main- you should know that when grinding end-game areas with this class you cannot do any grind spots that require you to zoom around and kill quickly, as shai cannot do this well. She does a good job at gyfins underground area, where you don't need to move much- and have time to cast your spells between tower spawns. Other than gyfins undergrounds, she cant compete with other classes where speed counts.

Her spells should be changed to not only give a direct cast, but also a lingering AOE effect that transmits the same constant effects of the duration of the spell.

Dear PA,

If you move forward with shai and decide to develop her out of beta, please make your intentions with her design clear and better understood. Tell us what she is... and develop accordingly.  

Last Edit : Jun 5, 2023, 23:59 (UTC)
# 2

She is good for Processing/Alchemy/Cooking related to the extra weight. But i would want some real passives regardless of life/combat ones.

Last Edit : Jun 7, 2023, 14:42 (UTC)
# 3

On the topic of #4:

If she had anything that really made her stand out as a more effective life-skiller, than she could be seriously considered as such.

Even if it were something like +1% yield on gathering or farming or anything. EVEN 1%.

Last Edit : Jun 8, 2023, 01:54 (UTC)
# 4
On: Jun 7, 2023, 14:42 (UTC), Written by ArchaicTriad

On the topic of #4:

If she had anything that really made her stand out as a more effective life-skiller, than she could be seriously considered as such.

Even if it were something like +1% yield on gathering or farming or anything. EVEN 1%.

More than agreed.

Last Edit : Jun 8, 2023, 09:32 (UTC)
# 5

For me is is a really bad choice for any Lifeskillcontent that requires movement. Cooking/Alchemy/processing is fine, but tbh she doesn't have much "extra" for it...so calling her a lifeskill class was always stupid for me.

For PvP

For me she is a group supporter. For PvE and PvP. Most of her kit circles around that purpose. Buffing not only herself (like most other classes) but up to 10 ppl, and rebuffing up to 10 enemies. She has her Cc AOE and 4 group heals. her bubble makes only sense in a PvP context anyway and her lantern dance makes enemies and names visible which is also a skill that is only useful in PvP.

She is the one class all pvp guilds want with them, and the class very little would choose as first choice, cause ur contribution is invisible in a game, where only kills are shown in the end. You might heal, debuff, CC and buff ur team up by a lot....but it doesn't show and that can be frustrating.

I accept and don't have a problem that she has -50% dmg and basically is forced into a DP-playstyle (there are very good ap-players but that's another kind of skill and crazy. You need to out gear and out skill everyone and it might work in a small-scale fight, but nothing bigger). What I don't like is: we are giving up 50% dmg, visibility in contribution, copy of sol that would us use a secondary class more easy, can't sell or buy our Sol and on capped Content our whole DP playstyle doesn't work anymore....and we gain?

Nothing. 

If you give up all that to be a supporter, have a secondary gear for grinding on top on ur DP gear u should gain something. A good passive that helps us in our role. Maybe a 10% eva passive like soooo many classes have. Cause while we are mostly the only one that stack full DP in PvP, we arent the one that survive the longest.

We don't have a passive that helps us, and we don't have any protected fast movement to get out of situations, no good iframes to stay protected in the middle of enemies and our only good movementskill is 100% unprotected.

Meanwhile, we have classes that use like 1-2 mixed accessories to gain a bit more dp, survive longer than us AND still can kill ppl and buildings. How is that ok? 

PA might not have designed her at first for PVP content, BUT with her "awa" she was changed into a group supporter for pve and clearly also pvp....but somehow that still gets forgotten.

For PvE:

She is a very beginning-friendly and great grinder on endgame spots....but tbh...for most beginner spots like everything before Kama Mobs (and even those with enough gear) she is a very bad grinder. She has bad movement and with mobs that are more or less one-hit, she just uses up to much stamina to run between packs and her skill animation is to slow to make it worth using her there. She shines most vs tanky mobs where she has the time to buff up, even debuff them and then use her attacks to kill them pretty fast. 

The most she shines in PvE with a group, but tbh we don't have that many worthwhile group spots. Oluns is the spot where she is used the most. 

So overall I would count her more to a lategame grinder with focus on groupgrind. She might be easy from her skills, but having all ur buffs up all the time, having her movement in check etc, she isn't the class I tell beginners to choose as first character. 

 

Last Edit : Jul 5, 2023, 16:16 (UTC)
# 6

We can agree that the first major issue related to shai would be her dash abilities consuming stamina, in pve traveling from pack to pack can be heavy on the stamina for shai especially when we are at mid game and we gather the treasure items, we can't request to remove the stamina on the dash but at least reduce the stamina cost for her dash it would then fix one of her biggest issues when it comes down to lifeskill and pve content 

Last Edit : Jul 5, 2023, 23:59 (UTC)
# 7

I did wish we had more movement.... 
Also, the class doesnt have down attacks, overall the class is forgotten by PA since years and i don't think PA is worried about anything but milking new classes.... Too many small improvements, PA chooses to ignore any suggestion.

Last Edit : Jul 11, 2023, 05:00 (UTC)
# 8

From observation they have been improving a few classes at a time so I'm sure Shai is bound to be looked into. With that said, talent weapon has got to go. Please give us succession vs awakening. It's not much of a talent when other classes can play instruments now... But having a "loadout" choice for excelling in buffs or excelling without them sounds nifty. I'd like to be able to grind without having to rebuff myself every 35-60 seconds depending on the timing of things. Better yet, increase the buff timer for PvE where you and your party members outside of PvP are set to 10 minutes. She's not good at PvE silver/hr mainly because of having to buff so often.... okay, it's not just that but it's a start at least.

If we get a separate like awakening vs succession, maybe we should also get more skills (borrow from shadow arena maybe?) and please give us down attack, stun, etc....

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Last Edit : Jul 12, 2023, 12:56 (UTC)
# 9

Man the topic is complex because shai is missing so many things that are normal for other classes.

Also, there is no trade-off for the things she does not have either. She is just bad.

I want PA to talk to us. But they remain silent.

Last Edit : Jul 15, 2023, 15:10 (UTC)
# 10

The only thing I disagree with from the. OP is that Shai being a beginner class. Ever since pearl abyss nerfed Shai, she has been abysmal pre 293k. I do not recommend her for new players unless they play dp and don't mind living at upper gyfins where they can grind in dp and support once they get a pen sol. 

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