I feel like PVE as a whole is luke warm at best in this game, reducing scaling means you need to interact with the braindead mobs more. They don't serve a purpose other than being something to beat the heck out of to get loot (Much like trash mobs in Diablo or other mmo's during raids prior to a boss encounter.)
Every Class should be good at PvE grinding and be able to one-tap mobs, make decent money and progress. No matter their kit. Period.
If you want a PvE based game go play WoW or another mmo honestly, nothing these guys will ever be able to come up with will be fun and engaging. Because PvE fun comes from playing with friends and having a group tackle tough encoutners which BDO is super against, the entire game has been built and tailored to a solo expierence where you rely on yourself for like 95% of the game. Guild bosses, world bosses and the few group spots we do have excluded.
Note I want the above changed, as I wana play with my other half who posted above me. But the game just doesn't want to let us do or have that. Clearly.
The real beast of burden is the enhancmenet system, I've always hated systems like that. From tera online to Archeage and even here I just cant stand the stupid upgrade mechanic. I know why its there, its there to milk money from its players but here in the west that is not how we like things. I'd much rather be able to go grind for my BIS in a grind spot or from a boss on repeat, and have it drop from there and then augment it with runes (Guild wars 2, diablo and other games) or with crystals (How this game used to do it, as well many other games) and have that be a direct upgrade path. This way every major spot could have a piece or pieces of gear that you could grind for, that drop at best stats but are rare to obtain.
I dont know if there is a way to "Fix" this system. Maybe making accessories not blow up and function much more like the armor and weapons, That'd be a good start but it overall just feels like a bandaid
I understand what you're getting at. If adjusting the power ratio in PvE so that you don't one shot mobs anymore, then you progress slower. In combination with this agonizing enhancing system, I don't think that would be a very pleasant result either.
But look at it this way. By adjusting the power scaling in PvE, as I described, the enhancing system would come more into focus, so the demand to change it would increase.
And probably for that reason alone, PA will never change the power scaling, because they would have to change the enhancing system a lot, which would make them less money from this system. A replacement would have to be found first.
I had already feared that this might be true. But then I don't understand how other MMORPG's manage to adapt power creep. A good, if not perfect, example would be WoW. The dev's have done a level squish and power squish twice so far.
Of course I know that WoW and BDO are very different and the comparison can be difficult, but the basic structure of MMORPG's that have a strong vertical progression should be largely the same.
So I don't think it's impossible.
By having proper developers. PA is showing over the past 2-3 years that they've fired/relocated [to other teams] anyone that can do any wise decision in BDO.
I'd argue that even before big expansions they (and other games) were dealing with creep properly, just when new major Tiers of gear were added in vanilla (from T1 to T2 to T3), there never was an insane power gap like you can see in BDO. A T1 player was 5-10%~ weaker than a T3 player and had [more than] decent chances of winning. In BDO, a *680gs player has no chance against a *700gs+ player, and that *700gs player has no chance vs someone with *720+, and that one has no chance against someone *740+. [*Assuming proper GS, not fake stats!]. And this becomes utterly ridiculous if you pair something like a 680gs player vs a 720+ one, they simply don't deal any damage to them whatsoever while in return they get blasted through frontal guard in one skill. This is further compounded by class imbalance - just unfixable**.
Comparison is more than fair, it's just PA fangirls that will tell you that it ain't. PA just refuses to take lessons from successful lessons for some reason**. Damage numbers, pity enhancement, instanced group dungeon content and so so many more things have been asked ad nausiem, and they only seem to drip them when their numbers are down bad [along with useless T9 and BS freebies which stifle any feeling of progression in the game].
Of course, it's possible, just the company is unwilling and lacks [long-term] vision. This also brings us to my double asterisk**:
PA is doing class imbalance and improper power creep on purpose out of a sense of monetization/retention. I am not claiming that this works [great] for them, I'm just claiming that's what they believe in - a completely outdated monetization and retention method that has been proven NOT to work [anymore].
The question is, how are shareholders looking at this chart and not asking for restructuring? The answer is: Nepotism.
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PS. I am NOT human :F.
THE ONLY thing I'm not sure about is by how much to decrease the PvP damage. What would be fair? What would feel good? I have no clue. That's more of an issue for GLabs and the playerbase to test and discuss. But I do know how to go about reducing the damage. It is possible, and it is easy.
It's anything but easy with all of the multiplication systems they have going around. If currently a 720gs player 1-shots everyone at >680gs, while those [680gs] players deal 0 damage to the 720gs player, what percentage can you adjust to close the gap? If you blanket lower pvp damage, all those low gs players will deal 50% of 0 damage [:D], while the top end just got an annoying slap to have to chase surviving stragglers that now have a chance to get up and dash-off to the other side of the map.
It's the auxiliary stats [beyond old visible GS], their multiplication, and their inter-interaction that create the 1-shot output that we currently experience. They cannot fix something that had a bad design from the get-go, especially with regard to the class-vs-class table and Ap/DP brackets. [In art, we call this: "You can't polish a turd"] And they most certainly don't care about what we think about their game design philosophy when the response of a 90%+ approval post about resistances is to just double down on resistances.
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PS. I am not Human.
It's anything but easy with all of the multiplication systems they have going around. If currently a 720gs player 1-shots everyone at >680gs, while those [680gs] players deal 0 damage to the 720gs player, what percentage can you adjust to close the gap? If you blanket lower pvp damage, all those low gs players will deal 50% of 0 damage [:D], while the top end just got an annoying slap to have to chase surviving stragglers that now have a chance to get up and dash-off to the other side of the map.
It's the auxiliary stats [beyond old visible GS], their multiplication, and their inter-interaction that create the 1-shot output that we currently experience. They cannot fix something that had a bad design from the get-go, especially with regard to the class-vs-class table and Ap/DP brackets. [In art, we call this: "You can't polish a turd"] And they most certainly don't care about what we think about their game design philosophy when the response of a 90%+ approval post about resistances is to just double down on resistances.
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PS. I am not Human.
The whole premise of your argument is just silly.
"If currently a 720gs player 1-shots everyone at >680gs, while those [680gs] players deal 0 damage to the 720gs player"
That's not what happens at all. That's just factually incorrect and wrong. The whole premise of your disagreement is based off misinformation.
"It's anything but easy with all of the multiplication systems they have going around."
There are multiplication systems in the game yes, but the base stats aren't what need to be tweaked. It's the final damage % applied to characters AFTER multiplicative systems that are already in place.
You're thinking too much and making something out of nothing. Stop freaking out over stuff that's elementary. lol
I understand what you're getting at. If adjusting the power ratio in PvE so that you don't one shot mobs anymore, then you progress slower. In combination with this agonizing enhancing system, I don't think that would be a very pleasant result either.
But look at it this way. By adjusting the power scaling in PvE, as I described, the enhancing system would come more into focus, so the demand to change it would increase.
And probably for that reason alone, PA will never change the power scaling, because they would have to change the enhancing system a lot, which would make them less money from this system. A replacement would have to be found first.
The reason these changes wont happen doesn't have sadly anything to do with either of our points, the simple answer is it leads to cron stone sales. Because of this it directly is tied to their proffits so in them leaving it as they do, they make money. And despite their willingness and want to make the game more accessible they will not sacrafice that.
The amount of work as well to rework pve to be fun would be... immense but It's nice to hope one day it'll be addressed
The whole premise of your argument is just silly.
"If currently a 720gs player 1-shots everyone at >680gs, while those [680gs] players deal 0 damage to the 720gs player"
That's not what happens at all. That's just factually incorrect and wrong. The whole premise of your disagreement is based off misinformation.
"It's anything but easy with all of the multiplication systems they have going around."
There are multiplication systems in the game yes, but the base stats aren't what need to be tweaked. It's the final damage % applied to characters AFTER multiplicative systems that are already in place.
You're thinking too much and making something out of nothing. Stop freaking out over stuff that's elementary. lol
You have a fundamentally flawed understanding of game development, balancing, and stat systems if you think that multiplication outputs should be adjusted at the end of the equation after multiplications have been applied. No point in arguing with teflon tho, nothing will stick.
Stop being a PA shill, nobody is trying to freak out anybody over anything, just point out obvious facts about game dev, PA and empirical + statistical evidence of how this game has fared so far.
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BTW, it's EASY to adjust the system pre-multiplications and delete the Class-v-Class and PVP Reduction tables altogether, it just requires a proper team. It's also painfully obvious which classes are OP and why just by looking at the numbers on the skills without even opening the game up whatsoever when some classes have skills on 6s cd that deal 12k dmg (and are unprotected with no cc), while others have skills that deal 40k dmg (that have SA, CC and sometimes even % based healing). Spaghetti code is an understatement for PA's design philosophy..
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Homie, I am on EU and am a 740gs+ pvp player with both endgame accuracy and evasion setups. Come with any gear and scale from 680 to 700 to 720 and try to kill me, I'll be at your service at any time - it's not like i've anything else to do in the game anyway. This reminds me a year ago when another homie on the forum did the same thing, just with trials on NA, and lo-and-behold, it turned out I knew what I was talking about.
Fk me, why did I return to these forums and this game, only brain rot to be found....
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Edit(s):
I AM NOT HUMAN.
Added further context to "class balancing" of 6s skills.
Family Name: Ryjuk
Region (NA/EU): EU
I am not a new player and not a veteran player. Above all, I am a casual player atm. Nevertheless, I'm always happy when I find the time or desire to grind in BDO and have enough silver to improve my gear or achieve other goals. It was great when I got my first T9 horse at the beginning of the year after about 30 attempts. And it was great when I was able to enhance my first TET Blackstar 2 month ago. I'm probably somewhere in the mid-game with my 668 GS, or close to it. Anyway, I've been out of the season for a while now, but almost every big progress I've made recently is simply given away by PA after 2-3 months.
So it's very demotivating when I find out at the Heidel Ball and now the Calpheon Ball that T9 horses and TET Blackstars are being given away. I can understand that as a catch-up mechanic it is important to help new players, and I have also benefited from such help, but I doubt whether this is a good solution in the long term. At the moment, I rather have the feeling that I just have to wait in BDO, as progress is regularly given to me as a gift.
So I wonder if, instead of giving away progress or capping content for fairness reasons, it wouldn't be a similar, maybe even better feeling result if you adjust the power scaling in BDO so that the power ratio isn't so high that you can do so much damage with one button to one-shot someone 20 times. Once would be enough, wouldn't it?
Capped content and giving away progress are just two things that such power scaling inevitably entails so that new players can catch up a bit or have Content.
This power scaling also devalues the old spots, gear and old content to a large extent. This is a problem that some MMORPGs have to contend with. It's called "power creep" and is worst in BDO in the MMORPG genre by far (after WoW) and can occur in very different ways
"If you’re unfamiliar with what power creep means, it typically refers to when a game releases new content over a period of time that gets stronger and stronger each time. Over time, the newest content makes the older content entirely irrelevant and requires players to catch up quickly if they want a chance of playing in the endgame."
- https://www.mmorpg.com/editorials/how-does-power-creep-affect-mmo-games-2000130409
Thats the main reason for the Season Server and all the gifts. Catch up mechanics is a primary indicator that the power ratio in an MMORPG is out of control
The power scaling in this game causes a lot of other things that just aren't fun. Because of this power scaling, PvE opponents are dead in one hit during the season level phase and a lot of Spots. Because of this power scaling, in PvP, most players are dead in one hit. In most cases, you get one-shotted or you one-shot someone else. Very rarely do you have those moments where you feel like you have a chance against someone if you progress more. Isn't it precisely these moments that motivate us to make more progress?
It's absolutely right and good that someone with better gear can tank more and deal more, but the way it is right now is just
extreme and .... unhealthy?! Of course I can imagine that someone with high end gear has fun for some time to one tap most players as if they were lvl 1 wolves. But is it fun most of the time? I have to admit, even with my bad gear, I've had moments like that from time to time. But even when I have, I can't call it fun. I was always more baffled than anything else. And sometimes, when I realize that my opponent is actually good but has bad gear and I one-shot him, I'm actually disappointed.
BDO has by far the best action combat system ever imo (not only among MMORPG's). It's just a shame that this combat system can so rarely unfold its full potential.
So my wish is this:
In PvP: In such a combat system, the focus should be on the using of defense-, attack-, and CC combos in the right time and situation.
Two players with roughly the same power ratio will feel the need for this usage the most. The first player who make a mistake will most likely lose.
Two players where one has significantly worse gear, COULD, if he uses his defense, attack, and CC combos better, still win despite the large power ratio disadvantage.
One shots should ultimately only be possible with the best gear against players with starting gear that are CCed.
In PvE: I just want the power ratio between low level PvE, where you one-shot everything, and high lvl PvE to be closer, so that you still have a reasonable sense of progression without making the old PvE content completely irrelevant. I am primarily referring to the initial spots and content not the mid-high end Spots. The adaptation of these spots would probably suffice.
I will give my opinion only related to PvP. Everything you say exists, it's called skill on class.
You can't close the difference in gear as you want, it's a bit too much and has no relevance in an mmorpg based on leveling and gear