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UTC 6 : 7 Jul 20, 2024
CEST 8 : 7 Jul 20, 2024
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#Warrior
Warrior changes, based on most recent "buffs"
Feb 19, 2024, 11:43 (UTC)
1114 12
1 2
Last Edit : Feb 19, 2024, 12:04 (UTC)
# 1

Good day everyone, with the recent class balances and new class releases, some of the older classes fall off in the current meta. A couple years back we had the change from full protection (SA meta) to a system where cc´s and protection was not supposed to be going hand in hand. This created already back then massive new issues, since some skills were only good because of the combination of it and fell off either with dmg or protection. At that time PA didnt look properly at what animations skills have, if they can be canceled or even if sa/iframe lingers after certain skills. With regard to teh most recent "buffs" for warrior class, which are based on an oustanding idea, but sadly with poor implementeation and to help adress such issues for the warrior class, ive come up with the following changes. 
I´d like to ask for constructive feedback, i know other classes have similar issues, but if you are not willing to put the effort in to make a change, it´s either not be as bad or you´re content with your current class state. Sadly those people will most likely still complain here and give a non constructive criticism like "your class is broken". So with that out of the way please feel free to give us feedback or support this case.
Thank you sincerely, yours Pascal

Frenzied Strikes
Remove Knockback and Bound from Frenzied Strikes
Add Frontal Guard to it
Remove Core: Frenzied Strikes
Reason: Its purely a pve skill and has not a single reason to be used in pvp, its slow, long and deals no dmg, aswell as having only cc on last hit in pvp

Chain:Heaven´s Cleave
Add Super Armor during the movement of the skill
Add: Increased range
Reason: Many new classes have partial protected and partial cc skills and Heaven´s Cleave would be a great addition since warrior lacks in sa mobility and the skill is outside of combos a death sentence

Absolute: Frenzied Dash
Remove Frontal Guard
Add Super Armor
Increase Range by 30%
Increase CD from 12 to 16 sec
Reason: Warrior is one of the very few classes who doesnt have over a bigger range a skill that gives them invincibility or Super Armor, so to help warriro in large scale we need something where we can disengage. Frontal Guard skills for mobility are like a "suicide" engage skill, you go in do dmg and die. Sadly warrior does not have the dmg to make an impact with such an engage

Flow: Reckless Blow
Add Core: Reckless Blow with full Super Armor
Reason: It would add a proper large scale skill to deal dmg and have a bit of impact. Adding Super Armor core here is trade off between other usefull skills which you can chose and this one. In comparison Sorc has the Core: Grim Reapers Judgement which is a cone shaped large aoe which can be used more sneakily to deal dmg, while Core: Reckless Blow would still remain the downside with an aoe around the player which has less range in one direction and makes it more of a suicide bomb skill

Merciless
Remove CC´s
Add Frontal Guard
Add bigger Cone Shaped aoe
Make it slower
Add more dmg
Reason: Warrior lacks a good positioning skill to deal dmg in large scale. Changing Merciless as stated, would give such a skill, on the contrary a reasonable slow animation would let people avoid this in 1v1 and make it a large scale and pve onyl skill. Comparable to Dragons Maw from Guardian
Core: Change the Core from Frontal Guard to Float
Alternatively:
Add increased AoE upon each hit of Frenzied strikes and speed up the animation by about 1.7 times. Each hit increases the range so hit1 4x the current aoe range, hit 2 6x and hit 3 8x
Massively increase pvp dmg

https://imgur.com/a/tCGnSEu

Slashing the Dead
Add: Iframe during air borne
Reason: Slashing is a skill that has no threat to it besides the damage and the airborne time is too long; In 1v1 you get easily grabbed out of it and in large scale you die before you can deal any significant dmg.

Meditation:

Change HP heal to 30% of Max HP

EDIT: Increase the CD to 2 minutes

Add Super Armour
Reason: In a meta where people run 10k hp builds having a skill that heals 5% of the max hp wont have any impact on overall survivability. At the same time other classes like valk, drak and berserker have heals that far exceed warrior who is a class with less protected mobility than all of them.

Burning Moxie:
Add 10% Movement Speed as a default passive
Increase the activation range of the skill by x3
Buff should be constantly refreshed like when you sit in block and get the dp buff
Reason: With the change of Burning Moxie, we lost the 10% movement speed buff for engages into or towards enemies. This is realyl significant as warrior has no SA movement or spammable iframes. The buff application range is way too small, most classes can kill you before you can even get the buff to be applied and its application is bugged that you need to use a skill before it even applies while already in range. By that time you are long dead.

EDIT:
Added the increased CD suggestion from July

Last Edit : Feb 19, 2024, 12:00 (UTC)
# 2

the "buffs" have the right direction and intention while falling heavily off in delivery and impact making them barely useable and noticeable, or simply bad (looking at you new burning moxie)
so i can only agree to all points and still  reasonable in the current meta / time,.
it pretty much would give us a huge boost in largescalre useability while almost not touching 1v1´s, which is most ppl´s complain and fear

in regards to the meditation change, id change it a slight bit
IF given SA, the cd should be increased by alot, to atleast 1min or maybe up to 3min

Last Edit : Feb 19, 2024, 13:58 (UTC)
# 3

Fully agree with this, very well written.

Thank you

Last Edit : Feb 19, 2024, 14:17 (UTC)
# 4

Ello Warrior forum mafia; its that non-constructive feedback you ordered.

Have you considered that, instead of engaging head-first like every other rat these days, you should instead be focussing on intercepting said-same suicidal rats with your superior mobility, nigh-unresistable grab, and fallback protection in SAFG?

PS, gib iframe on barrage of lightning kthx

Last Edit : Feb 19, 2024, 16:01 (UTC)
# 5
On: Feb 19, 2024, 14:17 (UTC), Written by Helegnes

Ello Warrior forum mafia; its that non-constructive feedback you ordered.

Have you considered that, instead of engaging head-first like every other rat these days, you should instead be focussing on intercepting said-same suicidal rats with your superior mobility, nigh-unresistable grab, and fallback protection in SAFG?

PS, gib iframe on barrage of lightning kthx

I dont think this is non-constructive feedback. Quiet contrary its a nice idea.

But sadly how do you think that should work in nw/sieges where you have to push, its hardly stationary.
In the high gear large scale scene, usually the guild engaging last is the one losing. As youve a witch as pfp i dare to assume you also dont play warrior in large scale?
The high CD on Grab makes this idea even less viable, there are classes with l grab that fullfill it better and then again being just a grab bot is like saying oh just be in flame tower, hwacha or elephant (respect to everyone out there who do those rolls #loveforutility).
Therefore its better to chose any other class into your guild than warrior.

My personal experiecne is 8 years of high end siege scene, where i was in one of the top 5 eu guilds, with very few short breaks inbetween and warrior rn is just not viable in any of that.

And trust me i do respect everyone who grabs a rat going into the backline, which every grab class can do. But that wont change the issue that warrior is not even viable for that since it can easily be ccd and the SAFG you are talking about is on awa warrior, whcih im talking about not durable at all. 1 good and geared player can delete my block in 1-2 quick skills.

Last Edit : Feb 19, 2024, 23:12 (UTC)
# 6

Disclaimer:  IM TYPING ABOUT PVP ONLY 

I agree on most of the changes proposed from Pascal.

Also i would like to add a few thing, to let people understand something:
I know a lot of people is clueless about how warrior works and think that's just "grab bot class" and proceed to just bash the class constantly, but you need to understand that the amount of effort the (good and dedicated) Warrior players put into the class to make it work is really a lot compared to most new classes, which have overloaded kit with Super Armor movements, Protected CC's, Damage Skills, Iframes left and right, giga Heal's etc.

What the Warrior community's asking is not to make the class broken, to giga buff us to a point where we'll be invincible everywhere (and im pretty sure some of the latest released classes had this "broken" state for a long period for both pve and pvp not gonna lie), but what we're trying to achieve with this type of posts and hopefully with the help of Pearl Abyss Balance Devs team is just to look into the classes that are still struggling A LOT on certain aspects of the game compared to the top tier classes, in this case is the Warrior which is not by any means, not even remotely close to a class that can compete in larger scale fights, of course a good and experienced warrior player can have a spot in a utility role or a platoon (and i know a bunch of them, but its a small % compared to the whole warrior players community), but how many classes can do what warrior does, but 10x better and most important SAFER? 

Which bring us to another point:
PvP competitive Guilds just refuse the class and get better ones. Why you ask? it easy... They don't have time to waste and underperform which is right and fair on a competitive enviroment, player in BDO are really competitive when it comes to pvp, so optimization for the roster/platoons and roles will be always a thing (like in almost PvP game), so we have to tag XYZ meta class to be able to enjoy a content, that should have a spot for every class, with different roles for sure, but still every class imo.

Im not saying i wanna be the next ranger, drakania or archer with my warrior, but atleast if i have to defend, flex, cannons/anti cannon, flank or any other utility role, let me do it with somewhat protected and fair kit and let us have some fun while being relevant for our roles.

It's hard for a Warrior to find a spot in a competitive guild, becasue we don't bring really anything to the table and as i said multiple times now, there's classes that can do what we do better and that's just frustrating, try to put yourself into the shoes of someone that played a specific class for years, learned it, mastered it and then? why should i care to tag a class which i probably don't like, just because of poor balancing decisions? I think this can apply to other classes too for sure. I wanna play my class and perform with it on the role the class should be. I don't wanna tag anymore a broken overloaded class and i don't care to do it. Unfortunately the state of PvP is pretty meh, so the few pvp options we have for relevant content are mostly larger scale related.

I mean, im not even asking to make us the next top frag class and i actually don't really care because it would be a delusional take but instead just let us play our class in Nodewar, Siege, GvG League, War of the Roses content, in a way that we can enjoy and make some fun out of it. We have to deal with gaps in our SA skills, completely or partially unprotected skills for most engages/disengages, unprotected movements, clunky skills connections and outdated flows, low amount of heals compared to most bruiser/tanky/shield classes, little bugs that shouldn't even exist in 2024...just help our kit out to be atleast competitive against the current meta and new classes, we don't wanna be "floor PoV" or to deal with stupid interactions or elder mechanics anymore, its just "unfun". That's something unfortunately that keep the (new) player away from our class too, why someone should put this high effort and time into a class, that's really not it for the 85% of pvp content that really matter in the game? 

For this reason PA, i encourage you, to take a closer look to Warrior Awakening PvP state and really do some REAL changes to the class, i don't know if you guys are scared of something, but all we're asking is mostly QoL for the class or fair changes that can help us match the current state of the game (pvp wise).

Also a little note about the recent changes that were on global lab and that went live in the KR server:

That's a little step in a right direction, but still, you guys seems to be scared to do things properly with the fear of "overbuffing" us i guess.

Burning Moxie passive is a good idea, but it needs some fixes, someone above already posted some good reasons and Pascal made the post so i won't gonna bother you guys again with all the explainations, but overall we need some adjustement for it, because it feel inconsistent.

The Forward Guard on ankle break was needed and it's appreciated, but we still have the problem on the "Reckless Blow" skill, usually we "Reckless into Ankle Break Into Pulverize and Flow: Tempest" as our form of max damage against CC' opponent/s.

If our "setup and cc" skill is not protected (Reckless Blow in this case) when landing, what's likely gonna happen? we get CC and "floor PoV" gonna happen once again. This to explain that while FG on Ankle Break is a great and fair addition to the kit, since it's counterable but help us doing some protected damage, it still not enough if you compare it even to an Awakening Guardian skill combo (nothing to say against guardian, its just to compare our class to a 2020 class that got adjusted this past year, maybe is not the best comparison to do, but it just came out of my mind while writing this poem, im not even bringing up to the table the last 4 to 5 classes released, which have protection and overloaded kit even for the next 2 new class probably lol)

Once again we're not asking to make our damage 10x bigger, to give use DR stacking back, to give us big slows again, to give us back the Lingering Super Armor, to give us back the less CD on the grab, to give us the whole moon and planet system. We're asking for a way to perform a protected combination of skills that can make us somewhat usefull and bring some fun to the pvp'ers of this class.

Sorry for the long comment or grammatical errors, English is not my main language, but i hope you guys get the point.

Hope for the best, thank you.

One of the many Warrior Mains.


Last Edit : Feb 19, 2024, 23:13 (UTC)
# 7
On: Feb 19, 2024, 14:17 (UTC), Written by Helegnes

Ello Warrior forum mafia; its that non-constructive feedback you ordered.

Have you considered that, instead of engaging head-first like every other rat these days, you should instead be focussing on intercepting said-same suicidal rats with your superior mobility, nigh-unresistable grab, and fallback protection in SAFG?

PS, gib iframe on barrage of lightning kthx

As previously stated, there are other classes that function better as a grab bot (awful, awful role considering the state of certain rats who have an absurd amount of mobility/escape strength) and dedicated peeler while also being strong frontline compared to Awakening Warrior.

You say "suicidal rats" but those same classes have either a block jump, no collision escape tools, an obscene amount of iframes, or powerful healing to fall back onto. Diving the enemy backline is important to disrupt the casters/enemy ranged from doing their job - which brings me to my next point.

Awakening Warrior's identity has been lost over the years - your preawaken shield block is stronger than the greatsword version, of which will be melted regardless due to powercreep. Your mobility is good for engaging, but severly lacking on escape. You cannot take advantage of chokepoints to dump damage thanks to a lack of good AoE. Grab is strong, yes, but going for it in large scale is just as likely to lead to your death than the person in your hands.

Back to the original post - I agree with just about everything stated here. I still am not a fan of Frenzied Strikes being only useful in PvE considering the Awakening kit still has Knee Kick, a dead skill. I'd like both Frenzied Strikes and Merciless to receive a conal AoE treatment with damage increase. The former being less range while Merciless could be wider/further. This game does poorly with proper "feedback" when it comes to slow abilities - they do not capture the amount of damage output expected when compared to faster classes, and even Scholar received a blazing fast animation speed increase.

Heaven's Cleave in current state is a poor man's Silent Breach from Awakening Hashashin. Increase the speed and distance traveled, allow us to use the skill from Preawakening (Awakening Warrior has zero attack skills to swap from Preawakening to Awakening) and grant Super Armor prior to the point of CC like other classes are able.

Agreed on Slashing, Reckless changes. A slight range increase on both would be nice - Slashing the Dead especially needs a wider/longer hitbox that extends to the back as often you will miss all of the damage thanks to Reboot changes when passing over someone.

Meditation should be at the very least a 30% HP heal, but I do not agree on such a heavy cooldown increase. There are many classes with multiple heals that extend even to allies, and this is a self-heal. Arena of Solare has healcut, 1v1 content does not exist in this game any longer. The cooldown should be somewhere around 30~45s, anything longer is insane.

Last Edit : Feb 20, 2024, 18:04 (UTC)
# 8

I endorse the changes mentioend except for frenzied dash, merciless, heaven's cleave and slashing the dead.

I do believe the class needs a massive update, particularly regarding the main issues explained here.

Fundamentally, warrior needs massively upgraded movement and AoEs. Frenzied dash change doesn't do anything. Merciless change doesn't provide any damage and is already and insanely terrible skill that should never be used in any PvP scenario, and cancelled as soon as possible in PvE for the 5% crit damage buff (net 1% DPS increase, insane). Heaven's Cleave is a 1v1 filler combo damage skill, increasing the range and making a portion protected doesn't do much.

For reckless blow, it should not have a windup, be fully unprotected with the core option mentioned, and have the same damage and AoEs it does when it's fully charged up now.

Slashing shouldn't be iframe, because it's a decent skill as is. It needs safe fully protected non bugged flows.

Those are my 2 cents. Good post.

Last Edit : Feb 21, 2024, 00:29 (UTC)
# 9
On: Feb 20, 2024, 18:04 (UTC), Written by Yber

I endorse the changes mentioend except for frenzied dash, merciless, heaven's cleave and slashing the dead.

I do believe the class needs a massive update, particularly regarding the main issues explained here.

Fundamentally, warrior needs massively upgraded movement and AoEs. Frenzied dash change doesn't do anything. Merciless change doesn't provide any damage and is already and insanely terrible skill that should never be used in any PvP scenario, and cancelled as soon as possible in PvE for the 5% crit damage buff (net 1% DPS increase, insane). Heaven's Cleave is a 1v1 filler combo damage skill, increasing the range and making a portion protected doesn't do much.

For reckless blow, it should not have a windup, be fully unprotected with the core option mentioned, and have the same damage and AoEs it does when it's fully charged up now.

Slashing shouldn't be iframe, because it's a decent skill as is. It needs safe fully protected non bugged flows.

Those are my 2 cents. Good post.

I'm half-and-half on Heaven's Cleave - I think it could potentially be a secondary movement option in exchange for losing CC for protection with improved speed and distance traveled, or serve as a pseudo-protected CC ability.

In regards to Reckless, I'm in agreement that non-charged version is lacking as a damage source and should be boosted.

From Berserker's Giant's Leap, Guardian's Infernal Nemesis, Sage's Divine Executioner/Flow, Drakania's Doombringer, and Corsair's Tide-splitter Patraca (I might have missed some?), I think an argument can definitely be made for Slashing to have SA on start-up, iframe on airborne, SA on landing.

This was deleted by the writer.
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