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UTC 1 : 56 Jul 21, 2024
CEST 3 : 56 Jul 21, 2024
PDT 18 : 56 Jul 20, 2024
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#Warrior #Valkyrie #Guardian #Nova
The Shield Classes need a long over due remake or just toss them away at this point
Apr 15, 2024, 04:07 (UTC)
1890 8
Last Edit : Apr 15, 2024, 04:07 (UTC)
# 1

Hi, I can`t am amazed that I am finally agreeing with some people on this but I think things got to the point of critcal mass. There is far to much AP in the game now and far to many classes that have some sort of blink or teleport. It has gotten to the point that outside of PVE where the shield classes honestly have it easy I can legit go to the bathroom wash my hands come back and have no fear of death. Shield class or Q block classes just feel bad in all forms of pvp expect 1v1s which don`t even matter because last I checked any 1v1 event we had was people fighting the same class so all pvp that matters or whats even left is group. I will bring up every Q block or " tank" class issue from my experince playing them, fighting them, and from what other people have told me their issues as well because as of right now unless your a awake valk it feels like playing a shield class makes you do nothing in pvp.

Warrior: Recently got buffed a lot mostly the succession version to link combos together and the ability to crab walk so they can stay in guard stance more. Awakened got a passive that allows them to be able to do more in group fights but lets be honest was it enough to say hey I want a warrior in my squad when you still have classes that can do much more. Now here is the issue along with the buffs we got warrior also got shadow nerfed a lot. Such as in Succession they can no longer use one of their movement abilites while in guard stance ( Prime: Forward Slash) they nerfed our downsmashes and even tho they gave us one extra image having 5 or 6 downsmashes and none of them work 80% of the time. I know down smashes are a chance but lets be honest we see ablities that down smash like almost 100% of the time. They  buffed the grab on succession but took away the extra 10% grab pen that succession had. They took away some of awake warrior pvp ccs and made them pve only. They nerfed grave digger meanwhile you have awake guardian and  Awake hash that gets to keep their slow and untouched for years for whatever reason. As the years went on Awake warrior got most of its protections nerfed along with damage. Now listen I am not saying I want warrior awake or succession to be some unkillable tank but at least let them have something. Like awakened warrior Q block is butter thing basically does not exist because of how fast it gets deleted. Succession warrior the one who suppose to have the highest DR values in the game and gets more DR the more you block none of that matters because their is so much AP in the game and so many classes that hit wayyy to hard. I have seen people Succession warriors who are end game full dr double pen cadrys and narc earrings get deleted while standing up in guard stance don`t get me started on how bad succession warrior healing is.
Valk: I know that its gonna be werid to see someone saying Valk needs love but I`m not gonna be talking about awakened to be honest out of all the guard classes awake valk is fine she has vaccum in pvp ( Hot take: ether give all classes the vaccums they have in pve for pvp or just take them all away). She has healing and one of the better if not best 100% BSRs in the game.  Which she is fine I will admit she needs to be tuned down a bit but she is fine. Its Succession valk we are going to mostly focus on. When was the last time you seen a succession valk actually even better when was the last time you saw a succession valk and you considered it a threat like if you saw a maegu or a Drakania. Despite Succession Valk having built in cc resist in their kit and a Q block as strong as succession warriors what does she even do. She suffers from the same problem that warrior and other " tank" classes like succ guard and succ nova suffer from which in this current ranged, protected teleport, high ap, desync movement meta. What do you even think  a succession valk gonna do. Most of her abilites are slow, long cool downs, easy to catch only thing shes good for is being a wall. I mean same for succession warrior but at least he can give his allies a 20 DP buff for 100% of the time. Succession Valk gets forgotten a lot and needs to be given the same love that succession warrior has been getting as of recently.
Succession Nova: Despite the most recent buffs they got they still feel bad to play. Most people who fight them consider them a joke because if you have any grab or protected movement where you can get behind them they just get ran over. The only thing that they have going for them is they are AFK arena the class so they have pawns that stun you for them and then the giant Bat monster that can knock you down. But for the most part people just igrone them or focus them out first and kill them as fast as possable because they are such an easy target. I truely think buffs will not fix them and they need a whole rework again.
Succession Guardian: Suffers from a lot of problems the other Q block classes suffer from. Unlike her awakaned counter part which got some crazy buffs and a while iframe ability. Successiong Guard is a sitting duck. You barely see them in any form of pvp content unless your in Battle arena but anything and everything is in there. Most of her cool downs are long and she can be found standing still wayy to much.
Suggestions and final thoughts on the matter:  I know most of you are going to complain that oh SA Q block classes are a problem because you are ether playing a class that gets annoyed fighting them or don`t have a grab. But I feel and so many others who are rerolling off SA Q block classes and playing more faster classes like the Hashashin the maegus the woosa the drakania the Sages even the rangers and Dark knights. Why because in this game speed is king. I know your gonna complain and say " oh but this warrior blitzed me before I can even blink" sorry thats not a game problem that is a server problem  because solar flare cannot only be cced and killed in it because its not a true teleport but its unprotected. Legit you have Awake nova and Awake Drankania that move so fast you can have 0 ping and still not be able to reach fast enough because the game cannot render them fast enough you can react to a lot of stuff that all the Q block SA classes can do even solar flare. Listen my point is we do not know how things are gonna be when the pvp changes happen. But if things keep going the way they are going SA Q block classes will die off in all forms of pvp content. Because why play a warrior when you can play a striker and be wayyyyy more tankier and do more ccs easier, why play a succession nova when you can play a succession maegu not only be annoying but almost impossable to catch. Are you seeing the problem here? All though this is a sandbox mmo classes had certain roles in pvp and the classes I listed are suppose to be front line tankes or at least be so annoying because of how many ccs they can pump out. But heres the deal they all at some point got their cool downs increased and damage reduced but no change to their base DR. The DR values need to be increased while in Guard stance or at least increase the actually DR values of the class or fix the class modifers or take it away as a whole. These classes  I brought up have a very very diffcult time catching most classes on the roster unless one desync, two they caught them off guard because people were not paying attetion to them. All I am saying there needs to be a balance  in AP to DP ratios. Because playing DR on the Prime DR classes just feels bad. Maybe I don`t know increase everyone DP while in Guard Stance an extra 10 or 20 DP extra then what they have now. So like for awake warrior instead of having 20 DP they will get 40  same for succssion warrior and then have the extra dp that succession warrior have cap out at 90 DP. For succession Nova that would make it 90 dp as well. Or lower their cool downs give us more ccs that actually matter their so many skills that dont get used or need to be reworked. That way we dont have to play the game of " get the grab or be useless" that is all I`m not a dev I or a game producer. But all I know is  I have played this game for years and I just slowly see the " tank" specs die off. Thanks for reading if you have any suggesstions I am open for discussion thank you  

Last Edit : Apr 17, 2024, 15:32 (UTC)
# 2

Succ Valk and Nova need love.

Last Edit : May 22, 2024, 13:50 (UTC)
# 3

Shield classes should not have grabs.

Lv Private
Last Edit : May 26, 2024, 18:19 (UTC)
# 4
On: May 22, 2024, 13:50 (UTC), Written by Feathery

Shield classes should not have grabs.

How about this then if they remove grabs they should remove SA I am sure you a succession witch would love that considering grabs arree not the only thing thats easy to cc you with 

Last Edit : May 29, 2024, 12:44 (UTC)
# 5

Shield classes should not have grabs? In this case they should be immune to grabs while having Q on ( guard - SA ) to make it fair. Awakening valk depends on the pre-awakening skills like heal or grab which takes time to switch between these and can be easely catched and killed, block Q won't stay forever 1v1 1v2, on large scale its a sure death. Haven't played succ as movements are too slow and a bit booring while awakening feels so good to play with. The only annoying skill on awakening is Verdict BSR ( 10% bs cost ) which once casted you cannot cancel it or move for few seconds which is vital in certain situations, also that camera animation that cannot be skipped or removed as its like built-in effect, normal Verdict use can be cancelled but its normal not bsr one.

Lv Private
Last Edit : May 31, 2024, 14:27 (UTC)
# 6
On: May 26, 2024, 18:19 (UTC), Written by Taquain

How about this then if they remove grabs they should remove SA I am sure you a succession witch would love that considering grabs arree not the only thing thats easy to cc you with 

Keep grabs and keep SA but remove SA-GRABS like striker running at you or warrior for example. At the same time improve grabs, their hitbox sucks. 

and I'm just throwing this in there... DK nocturne into a grab. Don't think about it just say Yes.

Last Edit : Jun 1, 2024, 17:45 (UTC)
# 7

I don't really think this is near as big a balance issue as it's being made out to be.
Yes, it's obnoxious to have to deal with a Q block in a small scale PVP scenario, but the moment you go into anything larger than that, you realize that the block really isn't all that durable, and grabbing anyone is a death sentence.

Regarding grabs, there's more context to what makes a grab powerful than just it being protected.
Consider a few things; Is it protected? Is it fast and/or cancelable? Does it flow into other skills? What CC does it apply? What is its range?
If its range is melee, what tools does the class have to close the gap or position accordingly to use the grab?
If the grab is ranged, ask the same question, and further ask if it has too few or too many options for that?

A couple examples:
Valkyrie's grab, "Punishment," is a 15s CD Melee range Mainhand-swap Float CC. It can be used from awakening, but requires a C-swap of some form back to awakening in order to continue combos that way. Most of the C swaps as far as I'm aware for awakening valkyrie are either Forward guard or unprotected, so there is some risk to doing this.
The thing that makes the grab's presence in the kit strong is of course, the mobility - Hastiludium is the huge W+F Forward Valk charge everyone sees Valkyries using, and obviously when you can charge the whole length of the Battle Arena on a 7s Cooldown, that makes the grab pretty strong.

Another Example is Awakening Corsair's Grab, "Heart-Catcher Patraca," which is a 17s CD Ranged Awakening only Bound CC. It can be used from Mainhand, but is slower, and an animation lock when doing so. This grab has the highest range in the game regarding grabs, but can only be used reliably after other harpoon-firing skills which are often unprotected, so you can't Quick-cast it after just any skill in the kit.
Again, the presence of the grab in the kit is made stronger by the mobility Corsair has, letting her position a relatively safe distance away to use the grab with less worry as to which skill should be used to flow into the grab to Quick-cast it.

You have to remember, PA isn't just having to balance each class around small scale PVP, or large scale PVP, it's the entire scope of PVP in general at once. This isn't to suggest it's harder or easier, I'm just stating the reality of what they're tasked with doing. Just because a class is strong in one environment does not mean it is strong in all others.

11 145
Lv 65
Last Edit : Jun 1, 2024, 21:33 (UTC)
# 8

Recent Global Labs kind of gave what I wanted in this post its not perfect but its something


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