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#Shai
[2024] SHAI STATE IN CURRENT GAME META
May 27, 2024, 09:23 (UTC)
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Last Edit : May 27, 2024, 13:00 (UTC)
# 1

(I've been told to make a post on official forums so it eventually reaches PA ears.. we never know)

As a little introduction my name is Kami, I've been maining Shai since release in 2019 and doing youtube content since then. I've seen pretty much all the buffs and nerfs the class has been through, it evolution over the years and played a lot in the european hl pvp scene.



Tbh there so, so many things Shai needs I can't even order my thoughts about it. From the class itself to the way it's been implemented to the game, things as obvious as displaying buffs below allies hp bars or making em bypass iframes. In my opinion PA lost themselves into thinking they could create a cute, experimental support class that would be easy to play with few skills yet insane support abilities so it still feels meaningfull to play and call it a day, surely it won't break the game.. 5 years later it's the exact opposite, class is by far the most broken out of the 27, precisely because it makes other classes broken with minimal efforts. Whats sad is that in the meantime, gameplay has been hard nerfed through years in many many ways (sometime without them even realizing it), making Shai the boring buffbot we know, with cheated abilities yet poor gameplay. I think veteran players will agree that most of our kit is a lost potential at this point... So we could imagine many things to add to the class, succ shai, fancy skills and effects and stuff but realistically I'm not seeing PA taking the ressources needed to entirely revamp a class played by a minority of players, as impacful as they are in the current meta. I think we should instead focus on how to take the kit as it is, and push its wasted potential to a point it becomes actually viable in 2024, so shai eventually become a true, complete, enjoyable class. Well done this should also remove the absolute need of a DP gear, which is basically a consequence of PA lazyness. I'll try to order my thoughts by priorities.

• Mobility/Skill flow (1/4)

"fast-paced combat" - that's never been so true in 2024, crystals and Shai buffs (ironically) makes classes just zoomin, sometime completely protected or at least partially. Shai is 2016 version of bdo mobility. That's not even a joke, we're behind by a lot, even surf added in 2021 they managed to fuck it up by making it unprotected, high cd, without any flow nor cancels. What could've been a game changer and a new birth to the class (Bdo mobile's surf version) ended up just being an absolute basic move skill unusable in combat. To me surf sums up perfectly what PA been doing with Shai: adding stuffs on top of each other without blending em, additionning instead of multiplying and design a class in a way it's actually enjoyable to play. Make surf a core mechanic of the class, lower its cd to 6 sec with some kind of protection, lower its max distance, make it flowable with every single skill and it will already fix 90% of the class issues. Point is mobility is a core feature of the game, more mobility means more positionning options, damage mitigation, better survivavibility etc... Which we obviously lacks, to a point we universally decided to play the class as DP meme lords. Shai though is not intended to tank in the first place, as we have nothing in our kit that tells us to do so. No Iframes, no vertical gameplay, no escape, no eva passive - which I don't think would be a good solution btw, as it would be a lazy way to solve the issue. Instead, work on an actual gameplay loop which allow us to properly sustain and escape if needed. Low cd surf and better skill flows would be the best option in my opinion. Until then and as much as I love my Shai, mobility/flow is the main reason I'll never recommand any new player to main, as it is the worst "Fast-paced combat" showcase bdo could provide.

• Talent (2/4)

[De]buffs - Most obvious issue atm is buff/debuff provided to others being way too broken, in a way that anyone with 5min on the class has more value than any others. So basically, we have [de]buffs so strong that everyone gets obliterated to a point Shai is banned from unofficial tournaments, and in the other side support players literally shaping game meta with 10% of their kit. Any other aspects of the class is neglicted and ofc, PA being PA, they thought the best solution was to take out depth of the class by making misty a niche 3min CD skill, removing one of our core gameplay mechanic and protected cancel along with it. On that I honestly think bringing misty back to delusive cd -30sec- and lower its effect by a set amount would be totally fair, both for Shais and other players. I think most shais are way more concern about enjoyable gameplay than busted buffs and debuffs tbh. Doing the same for speedbuff and ragefeed would be fine as well, considering how strong they are. Obviously selfbuffs are ok as they are, since they're making the class just.. work

We're gonna win - Wich is in my opinion another missed opportunity to add depth along with Surf. Skill was supposed to offer a new way to play but they managed to make it clunky af somehow, it takes an eternity to launch, needs to be recast every 10mins, fuck up swaps between talent and preawak etc... So much wasted potential. Imagine just swapping from a stance to another seamlessly in a fight while managing protections and positionning depending on the way you pull out your [de]buffs. That wouldnt even be a class buff strictly speaking, more like a fix that would open up way more rooms for playstyles and versatility. Just make it instant, 1sec CD and fix swaps so they're the same in both stances.

Annoying stuffs - Remove pacebreaking features like instrument tied cancels rule or [de]buffs expansion overtime thingy which had absolutely no reason to exist in the first place. Addons on 3 bongo skills when?

• Offensive potential (3/4)

AP/DP - Kit drastically lacks "active" CCs, I mean relatively instant CCs we could pull out during our preawak gameplay routine and that could allow us to catch people faster while staying mobile. Bongos are really good, but static in a way no other classes would ever think of using em in the first place, and thus one of the reasons shais are forced to run DP gears ( while still being super vulnerable to grabs btw, back attacks and all kind of debuffs). Everything zoomin in 2024 so we too need reliable options to perform better in pvp scene, both DP and AP players. Rn we have only 2 catches in a pvp I'd call "dynamic", one ranged being giga, the second one being main dps and 5sec cd. "Try this" float and "tumble wumble" bound would be nice additions for rewarding catches and combo potential.

AP - In the meantime, raise AP potential by adjusting pvp damage ratios so we can deals at least decent damages to all classes. From a balance pov, I assume PA do not want to give Shai dmg because of her strong support abilites, wich kinda makes sense. But let's be honest nerf is so disproportionate it's not even funny, even more considering how bdo works: no holy trinity, buffs and heals everywhere, almost every classes having insane debuff capabilities and yet still doing insane damages. I agree that Shai is heavily build towards her support abilities though, so lowering her impact in fights by adjusting [de]buffs values (which definitely needs to be lowered anyway), should justify the raise of damage ratios.

• Passives (4/4)

??? - Straight up memes tbh, Shai community knows it, everyone knows it I bet even PA knows it but still haven't gave us usefull passives. I understand the lore accurate thingy but who asked, lifeskill isnt an endgame content. We need actual combat passives that help in PvE/PvP in a way or another, like any single class in the game. Attack/movespeed related would be giga, maybe coupled with unique ability on buffs/heals/hpregen provided (Healing people on hit idk), or straight up ap/dp/eva if they don't care, just something usefull in the actual game.

At the end of the day - and from my personnal experience - Shai don't need a lot of stuff, these changes are simple to implement yet could entirely change combat experience for the best while benefiting the pvp scene. No broken feature nor broken stats needed, PA already put decent foundations for the class, but refuse to build on it for some reasons. Dunno if they even gonna read this, but as long as they'll keep ignoring obvious class issues, both Shai and non-Shai players will complain.

TLDR: Nerf buffs and debuffs, give mobility/fluidity, decent damages, actual passives

Last Edit : May 27, 2024, 15:50 (UTC)
# 2

If I only got a dolar for each complain I've seen from Shais in this forum that got completely ignored.

I agree that the class should get some nerfs in the Buff/Debuff department and get a more reasonable skill set in exchange, PA seems to forget than even though the class may have a S tier of level of impact in group content from the point of view of the player playing the class, the class feels D tier if you compared it with probably any other class in the game, due to her lack of mobility and protections (literally the only class in the game without a single protected mobility skill besides using V).

I think the class should still have buffs at the cost of offensive capabilities (is the only handycap of the class that I agree on) but the fact she has no survivality besides having a dp gear is just lazy character desing the proof of it is capped content where you can't have dp gear, in that content are just sitting ducks that give buffs and get killed proof that the class isn't well design.

The class is also full of bugs, badly design skills, ridiculous gaps in her already small protections and other nonsense, I could point them out but I know it would be pointless so I won't lose more time on this if PA or someone else were interested in looking for them, then they can look on the forum many shais have pointed them out many times in the past to no avail.

Lv Private
Celsy
Last Edit : May 27, 2024, 19:43 (UTC)
# 3

I really would love to see a nerf to misty and instead the 30s cd timer back. its not only a strong debuff, it also one of the few protected movements we have. The debuff is to strong in PVP for sure and I would rather see a few more skills instead like another, better heal, and more active florang skills. 

I like the dp meme playstyle but with the game becoming much faster with more dmg it doesn't work hat well anymore with the kit Shai has to deal with it. We are forced to facetank most dmg head on and ur dp gear can only carry you that much.

A rework to we gonna win! is also long overdue. I liked the old version way more where you basically threw a buffball to the position you wanted the buff to be. Didnt work hat well thanks to bugs, but the idea was better than what it is now. Also the long unneeded animation for that skill is such a joke. 

I agree with all of this!

Last Edit : May 27, 2024, 20:13 (UTC)
# 4

Another admirable attempt to point out what all shai mains know to be true.

Meanwhile Jae gives music to everyone and removes shais professional lifeskills, likely ignoring shai on bsr buffs.

Last Edit : May 27, 2024, 21:12 (UTC)
# 5
On: May 27, 2024, 20:13 (UTC), Written by LewdTheLoliMedic

Another admirable attempt to point out what all shai mains know to be true.

Meanwhile Jae gives music to everyone and removes shais professional lifeskills, likely ignoring shai on bsr buffs.

even worse giving our bsr effect to every normal bsr too
Last Edit : May 28, 2024, 17:26 (UTC)
# 6

I hope your post makes a difference. 

Me and Dreadspark have been fighting this battle to have shai reworked. 

I'll be glad to see you at the next shai protest. 

Welcome to the war on shai. 

This was hidden by admin due to the reports it has received.
Last Edit : May 29, 2024, 15:42 (UTC)
# 8

One day it happens. Hopefully not in my dreams only.

This was hidden by admin due to the reports it has received.
Last Edit : May 29, 2024, 19:55 (UTC)
# 10

My guild is having issues with Guild League setup atm because our Shai players got a schedule conflict. It would be nice if we could not have such a heavy dependancy on Shai for competitive group content.

Shai can be a special class, for special individuals... But, I believe it should never be forced upon uninterested players as it currently is. This passive support style isn't for me; a miniature children class isn't either. 

I agree that they should imperatively dispense with that competitive need for Shai in terms of supportive capabilities. I also hope that OP means more than just a small nerf to the song buff in compensation for all the asked goodies.

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