Node War Objective Format Base vs Base
Aug 13, 2024, 12:34 (UTC)
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Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 12:39 (UTC)
# 1
Family Name: Fear
Region (NA/EU): EU
Suggestions/Comments: Make the Node War fort objective system 'Base vs Base' again, rather than fort capture and last hit
I write this having made posts myself and recognising there are lots of posts expressing frustration at the node war system. I also write this with the observation that, on EU, Med/Val & Cal/Kama node wars have more or less stopped, many guilds have disbanded completely, or guilds have stopped organising content together/do minimum casual content.
As leader of a siege guild, we intentionally stopped participating in Node War for a period of time as a form of protest after reading the post stating many guilds are participating and enjoying new Node Wars. After a month of that, we now do sporadic, unorganised (by our standard) Bal/Ser wars for those who want and siege is our only consistent game provided, organised content (which in itself has many flaws but that's another topic).
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Different posts have tried to tackle all the issues with node war system or suggest fully new systems. I want to just boil it down to the core objective of node wars.
Ever since node wars were first introduced it has been a 'Base vs Base' system. You defend your fort and aim to eliminate others by destroying their fort. This was the one fundamental that all versions of node war had in common until now, and it's the main reason why many of us feel like the part of the game we enjoyed playing has essentially been removed.
Current objective system involves last hitting a fort to take it and whoever holds the fort when it times out wins it.
Just some flaws with this objective system:
- On the 'T1-T4 forts' with the known timers: there is no objective incentive to contest until the last minutes before it times out as you know if you do not capture it first to setup a fully built base, you have a higher chance of winning the fort by contesting in the final moments rather than holding it as long as possible.
- On 'T5 (?) forts' with unknown timers: apart from contesting to take the fort first at the start to try fully build a base, there is no incentive to contest for the first 20minutes knowing it cannot time out, this time is better utilised AFK (or doing random stuff that doesn't matter to the war outcome for self-entertainment) to stack up on flags and setting up to attack the fort after the 20min mark. After the 20minute mark, it becomes a roulette with no reliable reward for playing better or being more coordinated, since a guild could happen to grab a fortunate last hit and have it time out moments after they capture. This creates funny moments, and in some rare cases a silly thrill, but it cheapens any sense of gameplay and does not compare to the feeling of earned victory.
- In '1v1s', the owner of the fort generally has defenders advantage. Assuming a stronger guild, or guilds in very close strength, take the fort at the start and are able to build defensive structures (since no flags to return quickly and prevent this), this gives them a huge advantage. This makes 1v1s way less viable as content, especially if you are attempting to contest a guild generally expected to be stronger.
- In 'Xv1s', aka there are 3+ guilds, the owner of the fort will never be able to fully hold to the attrition. The first guild with a built base might last a while but this only really matters if the fort times out earlier in a war, otherwise what will ensue is 3+ guilds in a constant cycle of chipping a fort, aiming to last hit and hoping it times out before they lose it. This removes most objective strategy or purpose to fight as a raid vs raid, since time spent fighting on the side is time that another guild could last hit the fort.
- Fighting around a single fort limits the space for raid fights and removes all interesting dynamics caused by raid movement and varied terrains. This becomes worse the larger the scale.
- Cannons become mostly obselete other than as a form of CC on the fort since there aren't static bases to damage and make vulnerable over time. Forts are either swapped hands too quickly for it to matter or the output is too slow for the time available
- With no ability to eliminate a guild by destroying its base, it becomes far too difficult for other guilds to make room to fight. While pre-war diplo was definitely a contentious issue previously, the last hit system removes any reliable mid-war diplo that actually allowed the playerbase to navigate wars in interesting ways to better their fights or interests. There's always the chance someone gets the short stick, but at least the decisions were in the players' hands to try deal with stronger opponents and reach their ideal fight. In this system, even if you work together with other guilds against a stronger opponent, you either have to flip and work with others after taking it from them to play it our 'normally', or you have to essentially play to let an ally win (which is counter-intuitive to the game mode). Both outcomes mean you will never have a chance to try reach a fight against a guild you wish to actually fight.
These are just some of the flaws and some of them are less obnoxious when there are more forts, more guilds participating and smaller raids (eg. bal/ser), but that in itself is negligent of the playerbases you have on different regions.
Base vs Base certainly was not perfect either, but it allowed room for players to craft their own fights (partially sandbox in a way) and addressed many of the problems above by allowing actual structured, coordinated raid gameplay for an objective to matter.
"tl;dr"
Bring back the base-vs-base system (everyone has their own fort at the start, eliminated if you lose your fort). Remove the last hit fort system.
You can leave everything else for all I care, at least initially. There is value in some of the other changes (queue system, random placement etc) that can then be tweaked bit by bit over time, with actual attention to feedback and acknowledgement of this part of your playerbase.
Base-vs-Base as an objective format is essential to bring back a lot of players and guilds that have stopped playing, and to have your fundamental, objective game mode that you build the rest of your system around. This new objective system is not node war in anything but name, and if left like this will not only result in a lot more guilds breaking away from the game (or at least organised PvP content), but also that there is no platform for new players to get invested to work towards joining in the long term.
Alternatively, hire me for a low wage as a PvP game mode consultant or game ops manager or something, and I'll handle your outreach and suggestions for balance changes Kapp
Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 12:43 (UTC)
# 2
I strongly agree.
Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 12:49 (UTC)
# 3
100% agree.
I would actually re-install the game if this happens.
Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 13:08 (UTC)
# 4
Listen to him. If nothing changes you can expect that there wont be any PvP focused guild left by the end o the year. Your new system has already killed well over half of the active PvP guilds on EU in a matter of weeks.
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Naptha
Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 13:29 (UTC)
# 5
PA has to listen to this. If not, the uncapped PvP guilds propably won't come back after the summer break.
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Payne_Argith
Last Edit :
Aug 19, 2024, 19:15 (UTC)
# 6
*Absolutly 100%. This needs to be done!!! Not much time left before too many uncapped/engame pvp players left the game and there is no way to revive the scene again.
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FlyingFatality
Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 13:40 (UTC)
# 7
Kinda crazy that its been a few months and 80% of the more serious guilds died or are inactive and they haven't even bothered to addressed that there's an issue with the current NW system or PvP in general.
Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 13:41 (UTC)
# 8
Good post, now watch pa ignore us once again
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ELlMINATE
Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 13:42 (UTC)
# 9
Every post this man makes:
Sees near-unanimous support from the pvp playerbase
Receives plenty of upvotes
Is well-worded, despite the obvious sense of abandonment in the pvp community.
Considers different views (including those of PA as a company).
Unseen for PvP CM.
Seriously, PA, I know you usually send this stuff at end-of-month. But fast-track this, please? We need changes. We can't survive off of "As the regular season of Solare's Spear has ended, the regular season of Guild League, a guild battle content, will come at a later date".
At this point, most guilds are essentially running on fumes, with no new players joining and even less vets being remotely interested in 'doing their part'. The class discords are in shambles, there aren't any new guides being written, even the class feedback is falling quiet.
Last Edit :
Aug 13, 2024, 14:04 (UTC)
# 10
PLEASE, The whole Nodewar and Siege scene is completely dying as a result of current system it needs major changes.
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