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UTC 22 : 26 Dec 2, 2024
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Tone down Evasion in Arena of Solare.
Nov 3, 2024, 02:57 (UTC)
655 8
Last Edit : Nov 3, 2024, 02:58 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name: Despins
Region: NA

Suggestion:

Evasion is making a come back in the Arena of Solare since the introduction of the new equipments and brackets up to 298 ap. Some specific classes able to scale evasion with higher base damage are using it with great effect, overscaling the default AP + DR setup in a mix of tankiness that vastly overcomes the damage loss from the Kutum and crystal equipments.
Players cannot effectively build to counteract these evasion players without causing a neglect against other AP / DR builds. Kutum classes seems to overperform by being much tankier than any DR build variations at the moment while barely having damage issues in return. 

Solutions:
Pick one or two, or three... As you see fit.

A) If top quality crystals are introduced into the Arena of Solare, it has to be consistant. Therefore, Elkarr crystals should be turned to the 'Visionary Crystal of Elkarr' variant. With this alone, we're looking at +8 accuracy per crystals.
B) Remove the +12 evasion component from Arena of Solare's Frozen Crystal of Bitterness. Having a DR option instead of a flat hp bonus is good! The problem is that it 'accidentally' add +12 evasion that DR players can't use effectively, but evasion players can use.
C) Buff Macalods set in general to be granting +16 accuracy up for +8 to match the numbers from Hooms. Remove the % combat EXP (or keep, it's a insignificant amount anyways)
D) Remove Kutum temporarily from AoS until the systems are finished and an adequate set of equipment is thought over (the 298 max ap brackets are more fun than the previous uber tanky one, but less balanced.).


Why, what changed? What is the problem?
1. Frozen Crystal of Bitterness was introduced =  +12 all evasion x2
2. Ultimate Hoom Crystal was introduced = +20 all evasion with 4x set  (excluding the +4 / +4 from set 2pc / 4pc) 
3. Accuracy accessories were removed; but evasion accessories were also removed.
4. AP brackets are in the post 269 area, meaning that each brackets are reduced within a bonus increment of +6/+7.
5. The new evasion effects (from the Dr/Evasion rework) is effectively just a %dmg reduction in relation to the Accuracy.

-Point 1 and 2 are adding more accidental evasion into the setups. This is equating to +44 all evasion on crystals that are already desirable for a DR setup. 

-Point 4 is huge because the bracket sacrifice for a Kutum user is less impactful than it would have been if the brackets were set back in the 264 max ap where more ap is granted through the brackets. The current brackets are infiltrated by a Kutum problem where it sneakily includes itself with very little cost compared to before.

-Point 5 makes evasion a damage reducing effect that behaves in a true % manner. Whereas DR vs AP damage calculation is more of a indirect equation that consider the relation between the two. If AP of the enemy is largely superior to the DR of the defender, the mitigating effect of the DR will be lower. Evasion skips the problems created by the very high AP enforced meta and applies a 'true damage reduction' that is superior to DR at the moment. Evasion simply is a better DR when DR can't do its job.

-Point 3, (somewhat minor) removes the option for players to use Turo belt to supplement more accuracy to their build at a low risk. Right now, to really counter the evasion, you'd need Jin Viper, which is hard to afford since it impacts the quality of the build the moment a game no longer hosts an evasion player in the enemy team.






Last Edit : Nov 3, 2024, 04:01 (UTC)
# 2

This is like the first time evasion classes have ever even gotten to pretend they can be as tanky as DR classes in AoS, wot are you on about silly Aleriane? 

Maybe if your suggestion was to, like, change class passives to let people choose DR or evasion so that people can actually choose their gear for once in this forsaken game.

The only truly broken evasion class atm is striker (whom is OP in DR as well), so this just feels like wrongly targetting classes that are forced into eva passives who are having the audacity to be able to build anywhere near as tanky as DR classes have been able to for several seasons now. 

9 34
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Dree
Last Edit : Nov 3, 2024, 07:22 (UTC)
# 3
On: Nov 3, 2024, 04:01 (UTC), Written by Mlem

This is like the first time evasion classes have ever even gotten to pretend they can be as tanky as DR classes in AoS, wot are you on about silly Aleriane? 

Maybe if your suggestion was to, like, change class passives to let people choose DR or evasion so that people can actually choose their gear for once in this forsaken game.

The only truly broken evasion class atm is striker (whom is OP in DR as well), so this just feels like wrongly targetting classes that are forced into eva passives who are having the audacity to be able to build anywhere near as tanky as DR classes have been able to for several seasons now. 

It's not the first time it has been viable. Gauntlets, Ninjas and more were using Tree Spirit Armor + Leebur with Evasion belt quite thoroughly in Season 2, even warriors were doing it.
Evasion Hybrid builds generally require two things: a lot of base damage to negate the AP losses + evasion scaling from passives / buffs / base stats. 

No. Currently, there are a lot of classes that are better in evasion in AoS to get tankier with very litte damage losses: Tamer, Ninja, Kuno, Hash, Succ Sage for instance.

The problem is that it's the -only- viable tanky spec in the current gear setups and it is exclusive to a few specs. 

You seem to be turning this in a class balance vandetta that has no place in this... There were no special shuffling or directions in this and some weak classes yesterday are not strong today either. It's basically all the same who are still strong today. So I have no idea what you're talking about? Tamer, Hash, Kuno, Ninja got tankier and none of them are or were in a poor state. If it was proven that these evasion assassin classes got tankier than lets say Guardian, would that make your day because "finally Tamer can get tanky!". Give me a break.

Last Edit : Nov 3, 2024, 10:43 (UTC)
# 4

It literally is a class balance issue.  Because some classes get 40-60 free DR and others are stuck with evasion passives that were worthless for the majority of time AoS has been out.  Again, leaving out striker because he is going to be a tank that also does way too much damage regardless--everything you mentioned, tamer/hash/kuno/ninja can still be killed just fine if 2-3 enemies are on them once they have been CC'd even if they run evasion.  Just like it takes 2-3 people to kill a warrior, valk, or berserker even still after they just gave everyone a ton more AP relative to DR.

Last patch was a thankfully short nightmare where the DR classes were literally immortal gods amongst men.  But even before that during the last ranked season, DR classes were often able to ground PoV and stand back up after being CC'd and combo'd.  Often by two people or even a full team. 

The evasion classes were more often than not burning their V if even a singular person was doing a combo on them.  So again, it sounds like you're just upset that more than just warrior/striker/valk/zerker get the option to build in a way that requires a team to use some coordination in the 3v3 mode--or, god forbid, actually use a real combo on them to force the V or kill.

The balancing isn't perfect right now and still needs work, but you're just suggesting a flat nerf to evasion which is not actually the issue unless they are willing to address class passives first.

9 34
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Dree
Last Edit : Nov 3, 2024, 16:03 (UTC)
# 5

Since when do tamers run evasion build?  Think you're confusing iframes with evasion.

182 1574
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StickyBuns
Last Edit : Nov 4, 2024, 02:01 (UTC)
# 6
On: Nov 3, 2024, 16:01 (UTC), Written by Picklenose

Since when do tamers run evasion build?  Think you're confusing iframes with evasion.

Tamer gained some evasion scaling during the evasion / dr patch. There is a recent trend for building kutum + evasion in the new Arena of Solare brackets (as per explained in the opening post) that is both tanky and allows all the required damage for doing the 1 combo. I've seen Tamer using it to great effect. 

Last Edit : Nov 4, 2024, 02:14 (UTC)
# 7
On: Nov 3, 2024, 10:41 (UTC), Written by Mlem

The evasion classes were more often than not burning their V if even a singular person was doing a combo on them.  So again, it sounds like you're just upset that more than just warrior/striker/valk/zerker get the option to build in a way that requires a team to use some coordination in the 3v3 mode--or, god forbid, actually use a real combo on them to force the V or kill.

The balancing isn't perfect right now and still needs work, but you're just suggesting a flat nerf to evasion which is not actually the issue unless they are willing to address class passives first.

Evasion classes taking 3 players to combo down while it still combo down standard AP / DR setups in 1v1. And you're defending this, discarding the issue by retracting it to a 'class balance issue'.  Obviously there is a class balance issue, class damage ratios% being a problem for years etc. But it's fraudulent to be claiming that such an enigmatic change that never occured in years of BDO's existence should be applied before the simplest of fix to the equipment setups in Arena of Solare.

Going back to the proposed solution. Pick one, or two, or three or all... I don't care.
A) Macalod buff +8 accuracy matching Hoom +16 accuracy.  =  perfectly reasonable. Why hoom is 16 as the defensive set when offensive macalod is 8?
B) Upgrade Elkarr's crystal tier because we're in the era of Ultimate Combined Crystals. All perfectly reasonable modern crystals vs modern crystals
C) and D) Every defensive options from gears were removed in the latest AoS patch because of the feedbacks regarding the tanky meta. Except evasion 'dodged' it and even managed to slipped into relevancy through these new brackets that cut through DR like butter. But evasion is %reduction based.  Kutum and all the accidental evasion added from the updated defensive crystals created a build nobody really accounted for. On day 1 of the changes, very high level players added kutum and evasion out of what seemed to be a genuine discovery.

Last Edit : Nov 4, 2024, 20:55 (UTC)
# 8

Ninjas don't get to be tanky and do lots of damage. You pick full glass blast to kill or tank to secure ccs and support your team.

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