Hi my name's Armin.

Before my post starts I want to make a few things clear, since I know there's a lot of people in the community that tend to just hate on a class because it isn't their own (including myself, talking to you deadeye players...). The point of this post is to point out the current design of flaws of Succession Ninja, and how since 2021 when class reboots happened, all of Succ Ninjas power budget has been poured into an overly tuned E buff that deals true damage, and the ability to stealth cheese people without them being able to see you. Outside of these two aspects of the class, the rest of the kit has fallen behind the times with newer and newer class releases, the overbearing power creep of protections being added into the game, and the mobility creep that has been introduced.

In an ideal world, what I want the game to be is what Pearl Abyss originally proposed in their global labs patch over a year ago; option 3, a scenario where the game starts to lose protections and moves into a meta more centered around frontal guards and out maneuvering your opponents with movement. I understand this meta favors blockjump classes such as myself, and in such a scenario I would be completely fine with blockjump classes receiving some form of nerfs as a result. But the truth is, we aren't moving towards this meta.

What we've been moving towards for around 3 years now is damage trading in super armors, and if you don't have a grab on your class, you better hope you have more gear or damage then the guy you're fighting. Otherwise, you're never going to CC you're opponent, because they're probably playing a class that has 0 gaps and infinite stamina. With that said, even if that is the current meta, that is not what I want Succession Ninja to become, nor is it what my balance improvements for the class that I list below entail.

I believe Succession Ninja to be an extremely demanding and challenging class for anyone to pick up, new or old to the game. I also believe it to be an extremely unforgiveable class, one where even a small or minor mistake can immeditely result in the players death during PvP, due to its extreme lack of protections and low damage output. However, this has created a problem in the vortex of the games powercreep.

What happens when an extremely mechanically demanding class, combined with an extremely unprotected class, is tossed into a meta filled with the most protections the game has ever seen since 2017? No one plays Succ Ninja. No one tries to play Succ Ninja. And even if they do try to play Succ Ninja, they drop it within 1-3 months because the effort to payoff ratio is not worth it. For a class to be worth someones time especially when it requires so much out of the player, it actually needs to feel fulfilling to get better at, but unfortunately that isn't the case anymore. Even for someone as experienced on the class as me in terms of hours put in, many people will look at me as one of the easier targets to focus and CC during any game of Arena of Solare, even worst during matches such as Guild League or Node war/Siege or even open world.

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I am proposing 6 total changes to Succession Ninja; changes focused on re-allocating power budget, allowing more room to compete with meta classes, while at the same time not feeling overbearing for opponents to fight. Allowing it to be the mechanically demanding and challenging class that gets punished for mistakes that it has always been.

Each change proposed change I am about to post will have more details on exact skills/context and other information for why I think it is necessary down below.

1. Add 1 Unprotected  Knockdown
(Succession Ninja has 0 Knockdowns in his kit)
Possible options:

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2. Add 1 Protected Float
(Succession Ninja has only 1 Protected CC - it is a low damage stun)

Possible options:

Here is the current only protected CC to show just how low damage the skill is:

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3. Add Super Armor to 1 Damage Skill

(Remove the CC from whichever skill this is - Succession Ninja has only 3 SA DPS Skills in the entire kit)
Possible options:

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4. Add Frontal Guard to 1 Damage Skill

(Remove the CC from whichever skill this is - Succession Ninja has only 2 FG DPS Skills - 1 of which is a 24s CD)

(Succession Ninja also does not have an S block or a Q block)
Possible options:

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5. Remove Stamina cost or Stamina halt from 1 skill to assist in Stamina Management

(This is the largest stopgap from allowing new players to try the class, as Succ Ninja has very bad stamina problems)

Possible options:

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6. Reduce bleed damage on E buff - Slightly adjust damage numbers on other skills to compensate

(Please just look at this E buff, and tell me this isn't stupidly broken. Outside of E buff the class has very low damage)

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1. Adding 1 Unprotected  Knockdown

In the current meta of BDO, nearly every single class in the game has access to some form of a knockdown. The vast majority of meta classes also have a protected version of a knockdown. This allows all of these classes to have larger windows of time during their CC to deal damage, and potentially even include a downsmash in their combo, allowing for efficient combos with ease. Succession Ninja however, most likely due to his ability to animation cancel and cast a large variety of skills in a short amount of time, has never had access to a knockdown in his kit. This is a large counter part to Awakening Ninja, who despite having access to a similar set of skills while also being much higher damage numbers, has access to an unprotected Knockdown.

However something the developers have neglected in this reasoning for not allowing Succession Ninja to have a Knockdown is cooldown management. Unlike many other classes, Succession Ninja uses nearly every skill in his kit for some form of mobility on neutral gameplay, this includes his highest DPS skills and also his -DP Debuff, a crucial component for getting big damage in your combo. The vast majority of other classes can categorize their skills into two sections, Mobility and Damage. Allowing them to always have their highest DPS skills available for any situation where a player may be CC'd.

This is the current highest possible 1v1 Grab -> DPS Combo possible on Succession Ninja. This combo includes 19 skills:

Despite how crazy this combo might look/sound with it being 19 skills, this combo has 3 fatal flaws.

1. In over 500 games of Arena of Solare during this most recent Ranked Season, I was unable to use this combo even once. This is due to the fact that every time I'd land a grab, roughly 40~50% of the skills used in it are typically on cooldown. Making this combo impracticle and impossible to use.

2. Taking a look at my protection icons in this combo, more then half the combo is unprotected. Meaning regardless of cooldowns, this combo is not useable in Group PVP to any extent.

3. This combo relies on a "Stiffen" to extend the combo to its maximum possible time, allowing for a larger window to add more skills to the combo. This is not realistic on Succession Ninja, as most of the time our class relies on doing Blockjump -> Grab, resulting in a stiffen from the blockjump being the first CC applied. As a result, 5 of the skills used in the combo would have to be taken out. This results in a 14 skill combo, the vast majority of which have very low damage modifiers

Here is a more accurate representation of Succession Ninjas damage combo:

In the most optimistic scenario of PvP for Succession Ninja, small scale 3v3, despite landing a catch onto two players I am only able to land a maximum of 9 skills over this entire sequence. 3 of those 9 skills were exhausted as mobility to reach my first target, meaning in reality only a 6 skill combo. This is due to the fact that I am limited to relying on a Stiffen -> Stun Combo, the worst possible chain of CC's you can do in PvP to guarantee damage output.

What I am proposing is adding a Unprotected Knockdown to Succession Ninjas kit to allow for me to capitilize on such a situation.

The smartest skill that would allow for skill expression, while also still being punishable by opponents for this addition is Prime: Fox claw

An Unprotected, low damage modifier skill, Fox claw when used after another skill allows for a faster animation cast time. This would be a perfect Knockdown addition to the kit that would allow Succession Ninja players to have access to longer duration combos during pvp, while still having to take a risk for the reward. On top of this, due to its extremely low damage modifiers and inability to access air attack modifiers after its use (due to the flow skills "Black moonlight" and "Beheading the dead" only having down attack modifiers), the skill itself cannot be used as Knockdown Nuke during PvP, making it purely a CC skill through and through.

I think many players who are familiar with Succession Ninjas kit would agree that is not too strong and not too weak to the point of being useless, but a good middle ground for Succession Ninja to have access to.

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2. Add 1 Protected Float

As of now Succession Ninja only has access to 1 Protected CC, Smoke Screen, a Protected Stun with practically 0 damage modifiers attached to it.

(Smoke Screen)

In the previous video shown above, I stated that adding an unprotected KD to a skill like Foxclaw would allow for room Succession Ninja to take advantage of getting CC's on opponents after engaging with Smoke Screen. However, the larger issue with Succession Ninjas kit, and the largest reason for why he is unable to be viable in absolutely any scenario outside of Arena of Solare, is due to not having access to a Protected re-CC.

Re-CCing opponents safely is the largest and most valuable tool any class can have. Nearly every class in the game currently has access to a minimum of 2 protected CC's, this is especially the case for awakening classes. 1 is typically their engage CC, while the 2nd one is their Re-CC to extend their combo in group play before dropping their protected damage.

I believe giving Succession Ninja access to 1 Super Armor Float would allow him to compete with other meta classes in larger scale group PvP, while still not being overbearing/OP/or overall outrageous under 2 scenarios:

1. The protected float is limited to a Small AOE mobility skill to limit engage potential.

Potential options are:

(Shuriken Flight)

Shuriken Flight, an unprotected float -> Super Armor Flow skill is largely under utilized in PvP due to the fact of it having such a large cast time. Despite being one of the key skills that is supposed to be utilized in the kit, the gap on the float is too risky to be used. As a result the skill is relegated to being used as a neutral game Super Armor, which even then is still risky and can be punished by extremely fast classes or ranged CC classes. Adding Super Armor to the float portion of this skill would allow newer players to the class to have a slightly easier time learning how to stay protected in neutral game, while also allowing more experienced players to take advantage of it as a protected re-CC during PvP.

Due to the nature of this skill, adding Super Armor to the float portion of it would not allow it to be the optimal engage CC, meaning Succession Ninja would still be reliant on Smoke Screen as its engage option. This makes it the best possible option in terms of balance.

2. The protected float is limited to a Stationary Long animation cast-time skill, allowing for opponents to damage trade or grab the Ninja should he misplay.

Potential options are:

(Red Rain)

Or Bladespin:

(Bladespin)

Both Red Rain and Bladespin are purely stationary Super Armor DPS Skills, and also only one of three Super Armor Damage skills in the entire kit of Succession Ninja. Adding a float to either of these skills would largely benefit group PvP for Succession Ninja, while not being extremely overbearing in the grand scope of the current class meta. This is under the scenario where neither skill in return for receiving float receives a damage buff. Both skills are limited to 0% PvP crit, on top of having good but not great PvP damage modifiers.

I understand that people are scarred from 2019 Awakening Ninja exiting stealth straight into Bladespin one shotting 3-4 people, but with skill damage mods adjusting over time, and Bladespin now having a -70.4% PvP damage reduction modifier, I don't think that will really be the case. This is generally the best case scenario for allowing new players to pick up the class and feel like they're at least doing something when engaging into PvP.


Personally I think Shuriken Flight is still the best option however.

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THE REST OF THIS POST DUE TO MAXIMUM CHARACTER LIMIT IS IN THE COMMENTS ->

PLEASE LOOK AT PAGE 2 OF THE COMMENTS

Hey,

Still a work in progress on the whole post but I appreciate the early upvote! Hope you can take a look again once the whole post is finished up.

Thanks

I play succ Ninja and its my preferred class because a) feels good with controller b) tight movement and mobility c) shuriken to kill Afaru. 

I agree its glass cannon and feels weak compared to other classes. Much weaker. 

I don't do PvP, from PvE perspective he's good, we definitely need some beef to survive harder content.My Dosa in tuvala gear outperforms my PEN boss gear kutum ninja. This is not good. I will play ninja because of movement (he's not floaty like drunk Corsair and doesnt stump his staff to the ground like Witch every second, he only farts and vomits but that's nothing compared to other chracters sounds). 

I hope whatever PA does to ninja they won't touch movement because this is the only thing that keeps me in this game. All other characters are annoying or crippled in terms of movement.

Dear Armin,

Thank you for the post and proposed changes. I believe so far it is well written and concise. 

Another possible options I would prefer is to give Shadow Clone some sort of protection, it can either be Super Armor our Frontal. And the idea of removing Stamina Halt from either Shadow Slash or Alert Stance would be great too. 

Sounds ridiculous but I would prefer if Prime: Black Moonlight gets it's Air Attack (Modifier) back, with a slight reduction damage from E Buff usage. Also, revert back the original Shadow Stomp damage (It was nerfed for no reason, maybe it was nerfed due to Awakening getting it's shadow stomp version). 

Problem with the class right now is lack of protection, high stamina consumption and lack of damage outside E-buff. I can only enjoy the class in Arena of Solare as I feel the damage is still decent. Outside Solare, it doesn't feel like a class due to it's gaps and low damage output outside Ebuff. Hopefully, there are some sort of changes to make it feel better. I would prefer where it's still playable in the meta, not overly tune it. Just good enough to make the class enjoyable again.

Regards,

Aerov 

ASIA Server

Succ Ninja main (2018 - Present)

good+

Sure. I don't think succ ninjas will do well until they give the class modern damage modifiers, though.

Strongly support Heart aiming being SA with no CC, (or at least make it stiff instead of stun).
E buff brokiens, I think you are over exaggerating especially now when pot is 550 HP every 2s, 550*1.65=907 HP every 2s when on a ground. Recently PA improved HP on hit on what looks like all classes, so in SA trade 840 damage would be even less.
I'd like to see air attack on beheading, moonligh.
Agree on stamina cost/halt removal from alret stance and/or shadow slash.

I down voted just because I don't like ninjas.

I 100% agree on what has being stated here. Succ ninja is a class were you put too much effort for a not even worth the outcome. The class is struggling for damage output and stamina since the last couples years. The KIT is still stuck in 2018 if you compare it to others. Catching/Cc mechanic is DEAD in the current meta of BDO. We get new classes that's so fully protected with huge damage ccs that even my grandma can play without her glasses and still kills others without her even knowing it.