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UTC 1 : 27 Apr 19, 2024
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#Suggestions #Community Support
Sorceress Succession Analysis (IMPO™)
Jan 29, 2023, 14:26 (UTC)
1847 22
Last Edit : May 1, 2023, 13:09 (UTC)
# 11

Feel like you are asking way too much and also for no reason

Last Edit : May 1, 2023, 15:23 (UTC)
# 12
On: May 1, 2023, 13:00 (UTC), Written by MashingBttns

Feel like you are asking way too much and also for no reason

Original (f-ing) Post

Some of these solutions are pure quality of life, while others are {see:greedy} balance changes. I DONT believe that she should get all of the SA candidates, in fact, 1-2 would suffice.

My ideal change would be most QoL changes (the ones that don’t affect balance in any way) and one new SA + one FG changed to S.

You offer no alternative, no opinion on what bothers you, what you liked, etc. Just 0 effort comment - are you a PA employee?

Last Edit : May 2, 2023, 01:51 (UTC)
# 13

Also for the sake of Clarification for PA


He means A+RMB and D+RMB
For clarification please see this https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1353/   

Sinister Shadow as a independent skill was removed  During the Class Reworks and it was Reclassified Classified as Sinister Energy (which in reality is just RMB  with no other inputs)
this distinction is important as the origional poster is NOT refering to Nuetral RMB

Last Edit : May 10, 2023, 14:10 (UTC)
# 14
On: May 1, 2023, 02:33 (UTC), Written by SpiritOfSun


Would like to clarify a few things.

This was Shadow Riot that did the teleport not shadow kick


Shadow riot, when they changed it on global labs had a bug where if you hit with a skill from ranged (example abyssal blow) and did the shadow riot flow you would teleport in place  ( coud also be replicated with dream into shadow riot)

I can only assume pearl abyss did not want to fix the bug

Yup, I attributed the fact that we never got that skill to that bug too. It could be initiated with DOD and Calamary as well. 

On the other hand, the class is so underwhelming in terms of closing distances and every single ranged skill that she had got shivved, that that bug seems like actual good intended tech that she should have to get in and out of battles...

Last Edit : May 10, 2023, 14:14 (UTC)
# 15
On: May 2, 2023, 01:51 (UTC), Written by SpiritOfSun

Also for the sake of Clarification for PA


He means A+RMB and D+RMB
For clarification please see this https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1353/   

Sinister Shadow as a independent skill was removed  During the Class Reworks and it was Reclassified Classified as Sinister Energy (which in reality is just RMB  with no other inputs)
this distinction is important as the origional poster is NOT refering to Nuetral RMB

2nd post cus PA doesn't have cross-page quoting..

Yup. Never even noticed that it got removed. But tbh, RMB needs work too - can still be a one skill. But maegus...tied with -evasion...is just lovely. Lots of woosa/maegu tech seems like it was robbed from Sorc Succ discord...

Last Edit : May 19, 2023, 13:39 (UTC)
# 16

Apparently, PA took our suggestions to KR forums and adjusted Sorc Succ accordingly. But in reality, they didn't. Here are the suggested (google translated) changes to succession sorceress on the global lab.

Global Lab Patch Notes
Prime: Midnight Stinger, Prime: Rushing Crow
  • Fixed the issue where the character returned to the location where the skill was used when moving from a high-terrain location to a low-terrain location using a skill.
    • When using Prime: Midnight Stinger, the standard height of the falling action output has been increased.

 

Prime: Dark Flame
  • Fixed the issue where you could not link with the skill Prime: Dark Flame after using the skill Prime: Darkness Released

 

Ultimate: Shadow Eruption
  • Ultimate: Shadow Eruption cooldown has been changed from 12 seconds to 9 seconds.

 

Succession: Ultimate: Shadow Eruption
  • Succession: Ultimate: Shadow Eruption skill description has been changed to be more detailed.
  • The number of hits for Succession: Ultimate: Shadow Eruption has been changed from 3 hits to 5 hits.

 

Crow Nightmare
  • The cooldown of Crow Nightmare has been changed from 28 seconds to 20 seconds.

 

Shadow Wave
  • Shadow Wave’s attack judgment has been changed from a down attack to an air attack.
  • Shadow Wave’s PvP damage reduction rate has been changed from 30% to 40%.

 

Prime: Abyssal Flame I~III
  • Prime: Abyssal Flame I~III The number of normal hits has been changed from 3 hits to 5 hits.

 

Shadow Wave
  • The Shadow Wave skill has been improved so that it can be activated by right-clicking after using the Shadow Eruption skill.

 

Shadow Flame
  • The Shadow Flame skill has been improved so that it can be activated by right-clicking after the Midnight Stinger and Dream of Doom skills.

 

  • The damage and number of hits for the following skills have been changed.
Skill Name
Before change After Change
Prime: Bloody Calamity
Hit damage 1418% x 6
Hit damage when used immediately 1418% x 3, maximum 2 hits
Last hit damage 1418% x 5
PvP damage reduction rate 64%
Hit damage 1631% x 6
When used immediately, hit damage 1631% x 3, maximum 2 hits
Last hit damage 1631% x 5
PvP damage reduction rate 68.7%
Prime: Shadow Eruption I~IV
Hit damage 1002/1082/1176/1356% x 4/4/4/5
PvP damage reduction 51.2/51.2/51.2/60%
Hit damage 1102/1298/1529/2007% x 5
PvP damage reduction 69/69/69/72.8%
Prime: Abyssal Flame I~III
Hit damage 849/1248/1499% x 3
Gather Hit Damage 849/1248/1499 x 5
Normal Hit Damage PvP Damage Reduction 40%
Gather Strike Damage PvP Damage Reduction 25%
Hit damage 722/1061/1274% x 5
Charge hit damage 1206/1772/2129% x 5
Normal Hit Damage PvP Damage Reduction 57.5%
Gather Strike Damage PvP Damage Reduction 47%
Prime: Dream of Doom II~IV
Hit damage 1282/1401/1445% x 5
Extra Attack Damage from Minions when Gathered 1282/1401/1445% x 3
PvP damage reduction rate 35%
Hit Damage 1410/1681/2023 x 5
Minions’ extra attack damage when collecting 1410/1681/2023% x 3
PvP damage reduction rate 40.8/45/53.5%

Let's summarize what we got:

- Moderate damage buffs on 4 skills (which no succ sorc asked for) - not in line with other classes having almost all of their skill's dmg buffed

- Buff to Ultimate: Shadow Eruption - a hated skill by the succ sorc community which I am sure everybody is looking forward to use and die to in endgame spots

- Nerf to Shadow Wave in Pvp (for some reason) - even though the skill misses 90% of the time because of not being able to debuff evasion at range

- Lackluster QoL Tech for chaining skills that should've been in the game from day 1 of succession sorc - and still some other cancels and techs from skill-to-skill missing for some reason

- 8s cooldown decrease on a useless Rabam Skill - which still nobody in their right minds will take over a 10s cd skill with an insta-cc

- Bug Fixes for movement skill

- A big f-ing nothing-burger


The main requests were:

- Adjusting another T3 Addon Skill, or adjusting Bloody Calamary cooldown for an almost 100% T3 Addon Uptime

- Adjusting movement skills so that we at least have a chance to catch up to runners

- Adjusting SA/FG amounts or placement for smoother gameplay with fewer gaps

- Adjusting Skills with buffs on them (ie. Flow of Darkness, Beak Kick, Shadow Kick etc.) by other improving those skills or moving their buffs to other already good skills

- Adjusting Shard Economy - since we're already starved by our skills auto-using them (making it hard to use shard explosion)

- Adjusting Fall animation during double-triple blinks (didn't even fix this -_-)

Pa has missed the ball on these changes.

Pa has proven they have no idea how to work on this class with the reboots.

Pa has totally shivved Succession Sorceress all the way from the infamous Abyssal Flame nerf years ago (which eliminated the spam - the only space in which she's been useful at).


Pa hates succession sorceress. They hate its community. They hate how the class plays and looks. They want all Sorcs to be awakening. If they didn't hate succession sorc, they would've at least given her as many dmg adjustments as the classes in the same freaking patch (let alone other patches) if they weren't going to listen to the community about the problems of the class.

 

This update announcement is honestly burnout for me - both from this forum, but also the game itself. Even though I was happy to grind my 138/300b to attempt my next upgrade just yesterday, after this announcement my enthusiasm has dropped dead as the feeling is the same as Blizzard cutting PvE from Overwatch - Succession Sorc has simply been cut from development and forgotten in the game.

Last Edit : May 19, 2023, 09:48 (UTC)
# 17
Global Labs Patch Notes

        Sorcerer Succession focused on increasing the number of skills that compensate for the amount of damage that falls when the main skill is on cooldown in PvE.
        Adjusted the damage of <Prime: Dream of Doom>, which is used as a combo start, and <Prime: Abyssal Flame>, which can be activated quickly after <Night Crow> or <Prime: Turn-back Slash> So, in PvE, we have been able to maintain a steady amount of damage.
In addition, <Shadow Wave> and <Shadow Flame> skills, which were previously difficult to use, can be more easily linked after <Shadow Eruption>, <Midnight Stinger>, or <Dream of Doom>.

       Da f does that even mean? We can still go full on CD (apart from a couple of useless low cd skills) very easily with a high-attackspeed (especially during e/z buff, but also with some crystal builds). How did you (apparently) compensate for this? There is literally 0 adjustment on important cds. There is 0 adjustment on those mini skills you are mentioning. So what is the point of this sentence in the first place?

Also, why aren't we getting a full class description? Let's see Maegus when she was adjusted to her current "nerfed" state:

Maegu Descriptor

Maegu’s ability to confuse opponents with an illusory duplicate is a skill unique to her, and it opens up fresh new possibilities for attacking. Considering that this is a new playstyle that has no backstep defense (S-block), we've balanced the damage deal by each of her skills to counteract this heightened difficulty.

Maegu has performed much better than intended in large-scale PvP, such as Node/Conquest Wars. As such, Maegu's PvP attack damage has been balanced following this patch (PvE damage remains the same). Though Maegu's attack damage has been reduced, as she has proven to be too powerful in Node/Conquest Wars due to her wide damage area, the damage distribution has been increased to still deal significant damage in smaller scale battles or 1v1 situations.

As Maegu is a class that can utilize duplicitous doubles and deal wide-range attacks, she really shines in large-scale PvP.
We are planning to gradually update Maegu's skill enhancement, two Prime skills, and Magnus' exclusive skill (Abyssal Legacy) in the coming weeks. Though Maegu's attack damage has been somewhat altered, we will develop her upcoming skills to add further appeal to her character. However, there may be future balances to her skills with the addition of these new ones..

As mentioned, all of these things apply to Succession Sorceress, even more so than Maegu. So...where are the adjustments to bring her to a similar level of utility and playstyle possibility?


      This is straight-up proof that nobody in the PA (balance) team plays this class whatsoever. First off, whoever opens their combo with DoD in PvE needs to visit the Succ Sorc Discord for some serious advice on their gameplay. Second - and more important - you are claiming that <Prime: Abyssal Flame> is used for maintaining steady damage, yet you adjusted the damage and hits of the skill in insta-cast (which is how 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the playerbase uses the skill) which now makes it rely heavily on accuracy for the (new) full effect. Last but not least, you are selling QoL bug fixes as balance adjustments - sorc succ should have EVERY skill chain into EVERY skill - simple. You're just too lazy to create the necessary coding to make it happen.

Last Edit : May 19, 2023, 14:54 (UTC)
# 18
On: May 19, 2023, 09:23 (UTC), Written by Zoroaster

Apparently, PA took our suggestions to KR forums and adjusted Sorc Succ accordingly. But in reality, they didn't. Here are the suggested (google translated) changes to succession sorceress on the global lab.

Let's summarize what we got:

- Moderate damage buffs on 4 skills (which no succ sorc asked for) - not in line with other classes having almost all of their skill's dmg buffed

- Buff to Ultimate: Shadow Eruption - a hated skill by the succ sorc community which I am sure everybody is looking forward to use and die to in endgame spots

- Nerf to Shadow Wave in Pvp (for some reason) - even though the skill misses 90% of the time because of not being able to debuff evasion at range

- Lackluster QoL Tech for chaining skills that should've been in the game from day 1 of succession sorc - and still some other cancels and techs from skill-to-skill missing for some reason

- 8s cooldown decrease on a useless Rabam Skill - which still nobody in their right minds will take over a 10s cd skill with an insta-cc

- Bug Fixes for movement skill

- A big f-ing nothing-burger


The main requests were:

- Adjusting another T3 Addon Skill, or adjusting Bloody Calamary cooldown for an almost 100% T3 Addon Uptime

- Adjusting movement skills so that we at least have a chance to catch up to runners

- Adjusting SA/FG amounts or placement for smoother gameplay with fewer gaps

- Adjusting Skills with buffs on them (ie. Flow of Darkness, Beak Kick, Shadow Kick etc.) by other improving those skills or moving their buffs to other already good skills

- Adjusting Shard Economy - since we're already starved by our skills auto-using them (making it hard to use shard explosion)

- Adjusting Fall animation during double-triple blinks (didn't even fix this -_-)

Pa has missed the ball on these changes.

Pa has proven they have no idea how to work on this class with the reboots.

Pa has totally shivved Succession Sorceress all the way from the infamous Abyssal Flame nerf years ago (which eliminated the spam - the only space in which she's been useful at).


Pa hates succession sorceress. They hate its community. They hate how the class plays and looks. They want all Sorcs to be awakening. If they didn't hate succession sorc, they would've at least given her as many dmg adjustments as the classes in the same freaking patch (let alone other patches) if they weren't going to listen to the community about the problems of the class.

 

This update announcement is honestly burnout for me - both from this forum, but also the game itself. Even though I was happy to grind my 138/300b to attempt my next upgrade just yesterday, after this announcement my enthusiasm has dropped dead as the feeling is the same as Blizzard cutting PvE from Overwatch - Succession Sorc has simply been cut from development and forgotten in the game.

Don't worry they are more worried about dances than maybe improving QoL of Succession Sorceress or fixing the Sol Tagging issue... 
Priorities.

Last Edit : May 28, 2023, 13:18 (UTC)
# 19

#Edited main topic for clarity and added some suggestions to the table.#

@PA

Since I see that the Global lab updates for Succ are not being discussed anywhere, at this point I am begging you to reconsider them and look at what the succession community is asking for. While damage buffs are nice and all - that is not what the class needed at the reboot, nor what it needs now! 

There are core cancels that need to be added, and skill modifiers to be edited so that the class flows and plays better - please refer to this and GameruRC's recent article. We'd be happier with no damage changes whatsoever, but instead getting accuracy, attack speed, and animation cancels fixed. We know it's more work, but it's better to delay reworking succession sorc before it is again forgotten in a dusty moldy drawer for over a year.

Don't kill the class off completely in a sea of balance changes where every other class is getting pumped steroids into them.

Do better.

-

@Gms/CMs

For your and our sanity, please start getting answers for the community on topics that will NOT be addressed by PA in the foreseeable future. That way we can know when to stop beating a dead horse.

Last Edit : May 29, 2023, 13:00 (UTC)
# 20

Another Global Lab patch - another dud for succ sorc. I see that they will probably stick to the damage buffs and call the class "fixed" so I wanted to address those specifically as well.

#Added to main article#

Here is a damage breakdown of the main damage skills that sorc wields, as well as the new updates and where those skills will land in power. The list is arranged by DPS (not total damage).

Skill Name

acc

crit

Total Dmg

Cd

Dmg Per CD

Cast Time*

DPS

Measurement Comment

Prime: Black Wave III

0

25

37125

8

4640

2

18562

Prime: Violation

0

25

18039

6

3006

1

18039

Assuming No stutters

*New* Prime Abyssal Flame III

29

50

17032

7

2433

1

17032

*New* Priime: Dream of Doom

29

16184

9

1798

1

16184

*New* Prime: Bloody Calamity

10

100

27727

11

2520

2

13863

Dark Tendrils

8

40

25005

11

2273

2

12502

Can be shortened by timing second attack earlier

Prime: Bloody Calamity

10

100

24106

16

1506

2

12053

Prime: Abyssal Flame III

29

50

11992

7

1713

1

11992

Prime: Dream of Doom IV

29

11560

9

1284

1

11560

All Cast time is from recoil which can be easily canceled with Midnight stinger resulting in a 1s total

Prime: Darkness Released

12

25

10560

6

1760

1

10560

Prime: Claws of Darkness IV

0

15825

5

3165

1.5

10550

* New*Prime: Shadow Eruption IV

23

50

10035

7

1433

1

10035

* New*Succession: Ultimate Shadow Eruption IV

23

25

10035

9

1115

1

10035

*New* Dark Flame + Ultimate

10

100

19092

6

3182

2

9546

Assuming No stutters

Prime: Turn-back Slash

5

100

9511

5

1902

1

9511

Instant in some cases, but setup usually requires 1s (ie. Crow>Beak or Iframe>TBS)

Prime: Dark Flame + Ultimate

10

100

15910

6

2651

2

7955

Assuming No stutters

Prime: Shadow Eruption IV

23

25

6780

7

968

1

6780

Instant in some cases, but setup usually requires 1s (ie. Midnight Stinger or iframe or Abso:Darkness.

Prime: Succession: Ultimate Shadow Eruption IV

23

25

6780

12

565

1

6780

Recorded with OBS @144 FPS Locked / Calculated in Premiere / Trunkated / NoAlch Stone + 5 atsp

So, what does this patch do for our damage?

1. It makes DOD, AF, and Calamary finally deal more damage than Dark Tendrils

2. It props up shadow eruption by ~25%, however, that is 25% of an (already) low-damage skill.

3. Ultimate:Eruption and Flame+Ultimate:Flame which are both mediocre skills (one unprotected, the other with a stuttery animation) that succ sorcs avoid using at end-game pve

What did we get in total in this patch?

We got 4 skill's damage buffed, 2 irrelevant cooldowns adjusted, 2 bug fixes, 2 irrelevant skill cancels. The irrelevant adjustments are definitely not in line with what the entire sorc community is asking. The damage buffs just bring some to "the default" because they dealt less dps than even our Magnus skill {also available for Sorc Awa} while other skills were just adjusted at random.

What are other classes getting?

1. 6-8 Damage Changes Depending on how lucky they are. Those that get 4 though (ie. Succ Hash) are getting many other things adjusted in a positive way, unlike succ sorc.

2. For many, 7-second cd skills have total damage of 20-25k damage (ours have 7-15k even after this "buff")

3. Some classes even got relevant flows and cancels

What do we do now?

Nothing, there are obviously not enough people lobbying for succession sorceress and she's falling further into irrelevancy with every update. If you somehow reached this part of the article, please do me a solid and upvote every single comment in this post so that it achieves more relevancy.

#Added to main article#

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