Family Name: Merlyn

Region: World

Suggestions/Comments:  AoS requires several tweaks to make the experience more pleasurable. I'll add any and all upvoted ideas to the thread. I'll remove disliked ones from the thread likewise, so please do your best to go through everything and commune in a civil way.

In red are player votes and opinions on specific topics, since they can't help themselves being triggered by several in a sea of many.

1.0 Matchmaking +1 Upvote by Askore - "Agree.. with better matchmaking"

Let's start with the elephant in the room, even though there were claims that matchmaking is fixed, it seems to be even worse than before - both in Practice and competitive. The following tweaks should be added, especially to comp:

1.1 The matchmaker should be allowed to shuffle teams after it has found players, before starting the game, to achieve the effects mentioned below & better balance. Of course, this excludes Parties that play in practice.

1.2 Total average MMR of both teams should be within ~50 points. There should never ever be a situation where one team has an overwhelming MMR advantage over the other team, regardless of their winstreak(s) or personal performance. I've been both on the giving and receiving end with a 800-1100 MMR player being in a match where the other team had 2x1300 plus one 1500 MMR player. Been also on the giving and receiving win/lose streak in practice for 8-10+ games in a row with either team having a player that does >10k damage. This shouldn't ever occur.

1.3 There should be a maximum of 1 class per team limit for competitive. As much as this can work in favor of having a stomp, it can also lead to being completely countered and stomped. If we're worried about the pool of players not being enough (and the classes cannot be simply reshuffled through the teams), you can literally add information to the accept/deny menu that Your/Enemy team will have doubles - and we can make the choice ourselves whether we want to risk it or not.

1.4 Matchmaking should be taking player class, item/crystal build & previous matchmaking performance into account when creating teams. Ideally, classes and builds would be split into major prototypes brawler (dps monkeys), controller (cc monkeys), support/tank (eva/dp monkeys) and you'd never get doubles of each archetype in each match. Ik that bdo doesn't fit these categories to the T, but it would still create better matchmaking than getting 2 DPS-less evasion players or 2 DP Novas... The balancing of the different categories can be done easily by just taking into account the final stats in the "My Stats" for each AoS player in combination with the CC/Sustain/Damage potential of each class.

1.5 Matchmaking should be taking the number of matches played into account. Let's be real, some people got really lucky with their placements (more on that later) and are now sleeping on their ranking places. As soon as they start playing, one team will probably get rolled since they have no idea how the game works at that rank. The total amount of matches played in both teams should be >10 difference, not (sometimes) 100+.

1.6 Instead of pushing for a 50% win-rate the matchmaker should be pushing for all matches to reach 3:2/2:3. It seems to be doing the former currently, should be the latter.

1.7 Matchmaking should take voice chat and text chat usage into account. Playing with ghosts just sucks, but it should be fine if they play with each other.

2.0 Scoring & Ranking -1 Downvote by Garuwashi - "Scoring is not fine, but these ideas are shit. Decay is fine though, people can't play every day.";

2.1. Scoreboard should change Debuffs to either CC-s that led to kill, or Kill Assists.

2.2 The final Competetive Ranking adjustment should not be a random number from 20-29, but rather a sublimation of the effect done in a game that every player can calculate simply.

A simple equation would be:

+/- 20 for Win/Lose

+/- 1 for Kill/Death

+ 1 for Kill Assist/CC that leads to kill

+ 1xDamageDone/10k

+ 1xDamageTaken/50k

+ 1xHealingDone/100k

Most importantly, this would also make losing feel less punishing, as your individual performance will reduce the number of points you lose for that match.

2.3. Add harsher Competetive Decay:

+1800 MMR - 100 Decay per day (Unless you play a match)

1500-1800 MMR - 50 Decay per day (Unless you play a match)

Sub 1500 MMR - No Decay

Should force people to (actually) play the game if they want to retain their rank. Simple.

2.4. Next season, decrease Placement gain to 50-75 points per match. 100 was overkill and sent a lot of players where they shouldn't be.

3.0 Maps & Map Design  

3.1. Create a map voting system for each season at the start of a match. Or a map banning system - either is fine. If a limitation is needed at all, limit players from choosing the same map 3 times after which they have to choose the other maps until they expend all charges, after which map choice resets again. But in all honesty, it should be a free vote system with the majority map wining, and if there is a draw it just rng chooses one. Some maps just suck for some classes *cough* rooftops *cough* and they shouldn't be forced to play them - saying this as a rooftop abuser.

3.2.a. Buffs should be given to the losing team at a random interval. -2 Downvotes by Garuwashi - "No buffs in Aos!!!"; Askore - "Comeback mechanics are dumb"; If they are intended as a come-back mechanic, they should be given out at random to only ONE player from the losing team to give them a 15s edge in turning the fight. It should be at random after starting an engagement with the enemy team, because otherwise, it would just lead to kiting mechanics for the first 15s of each of those rounds.

3.2.b. Buffs should be significantly nerfed down and made more common around the fights. -2 Downvotes by Garuwashi - "No buffs in Aos!!!"; Askore - "Comeback mechanics are dumb"; In their current state, the AP/DP buffs can skew a round so significantly that it makes it not fun to play - it would be better if they are 80% weaker, but 300% more common. Instead of being points of interest in the map, they should be spawning around the fights themselves so that they don't disrupt the flow of battle in AoS.

3.2.c. Buff aoe should be map-wide. -2 Downvotes by: Garuwashi - "No buffs in Aos!!!"; Askore - "Comeback mechanics are dumb;' Especially in the case of the AP buff, one player not getting it could mean the difference between a win and a loss, and sometimes that can be caused just by simple geometry.

3.2.d. More comeback mechanics are needed. -2 Downvotes by: Garuwashi - "No comeback change in Aos!!!"; Askore - "Comeback mechanics are dumb";For example, if a team is winning 2:0, they should get a 25% health penalty in the next round. If they are stomping, they can stomp anyway with 25% less hp. The penalty should go away if they lose that round and the match becomes 2:1.

3.2.eGaru. Remove buffs completely from Aos.

3.3. Create a closing (damage) circle to prevent infinite kiting as time goes by as is already used in official BDO Pvp tournaments. This would also limit a winning team from farming a single remaining player.

4.0 Class & Gear Balance +1 Upvote by: Askore - "Agree with.. overall need for a gear meta change"

4.1.a. Remove 200% BSR Skills from AoS entirely. Until these get insanely tweaked in the future, they should not be usable in AoS matches as some of them are an almost guaranteed Round Win.

4.1.b. Alternatively, lock Rage Transfer in AoS entirely, you can use only what you've generated (sry Shais). Even with 100%s, sometimes a team has a class that can dunk on teams with these skills and it's an overwhelming strategy to just feed them rage so that they can spam that skill. Idk if this should be a thing, as an abuser myself.

4.2. Impose BSR Regeneration Debuff during all wait times - if the round has not started and players can attack each other, they should not be allowed to charge BSR (whether it be via the earrings or Shai buffs). The fact that this exists creates major issues when one side has a player with connectivity issues.

4.3. Buff Unused Equipment to make more builds viable. Probably all of Secrua Crystal, Red BattleField: Not KD/Grapple, Dark Red Fang Armor, Giath, Lunar, Sicil, Narc, Dawn, Ominous, Ronaros could use adjustments to shake up the meta a lil bit.

4.4. Increase Stamina usage on insane movement skills (ie. Drak, Zerk etc) specifically in AoS. Some of these abilities are designed for the open world and don't really work in an arena setting where some classes can just sit helplessly as their enemy skids away at 3% HP over 7 times in a single round. A simple way to balance this out would be, "if you move more than a certain distance with a single skill, stamina usage goes up 300% after that distance".

4.5.a Remove class-based Ignore/Resist CC stats and passives.

4.5.b Remove the Class-vs-Class damage ratio table from AoS. Some classes, such as Awa Casters, suffer greatly because this table is meant to balance them out in nodewars and doesn't work whatsoever in a smallscale setting. Use AoS to start balancing the game for this change in the open world as well.

4.5.c Equalize base stats across each class for AoS. As with c-v-c ratio table, use AoS as a petri dish to test out how the game would look like with equalized base stats. 

4.5.d Remove Class Passives from AoS. Yeah, i know, controversial and it would require some atsp/dmg tweaks on some classes. Others tho, benefit insanely from their overtuned class passives and as with the other things, you can use this as testing grounds for a more robust passives system.

4.6. Add the new crystal system to AoS. Yeah, it would require a lot of balancing, but also the arena game should reflect the real game.

4.7. Test out alternative CC limits. -1 Downvote by Garuwashi - "U no understand CC. CC fine atm!" The ability to extend the secondary CCs (after a long KD) or the natural duration of some Stiffens/100% Skills is too long.

4.8. Try out a blanket SA/iframe linger for all classes' Iframe skills to try to combat desync. -1 Downvote by Garuwashi - "U no understand Desync. Desync is not fine and your ideas are dumb!" The way that I see and experience desync currently, is skills somehow going in-between the functions of me casting an iframe into a protected skill. I believe that playing around with the lingering effect (talking 0.1-0.3s here) could lead to less desync (both in AoS, as well as Blitz and OWPVP)

4.9.a Take a serious look at accuracy modifiers on some classes. I won't name them, you can self-report if you want to, but some can both spec in almost full evasion, as well as hit full evasion targets, due to the fact that they have 30-50% accuracy Buffs in addition to 10-30% accuracy modifiers on their skills. This creates a very specific class/gear meta in AoS which could be the bane of its existence long-term.

4.9.b Take a serious look at evasion modifiers on some classes. I won't name them, you can self-report if you want to, but some can both spec in almost full evasion, as well as hit full evasion targets, due to the fact that they have 30-50% accuracy Buffs in addition to 10-30% accuracy modifiers on their skills. This creates a very specific class/gear meta in AoS which could be the bane of its existence longterm. Yeh...they are different things, but also the same.

4.9.c. Take a serious look at Slow debuffs on some classes. Those things might work in Siege and Nodewar, but in AoS they are depressing, especially on classes that simply Stop casting certain skills due to slows.

4.10. Uncouple Seals of Solare from gear. Gear should be free and the same for every player. Seals should be used for rewards - see more below.

5.0 Rewards -1 Downvote by: Adonaj "No Rewards on AoS pls!"; +1 Upvote: Askore - "Agree with rewards"

5.1. Implement an AoS cosmetics shop - every rank gives you access to different cosmetics. This is present in every single game that has had an arena. It has never been tied to the T100 players of the mode nor it has been a copy-pasta of the same costume across all classes. If there is no dev-space/time to create new aos costumes, just recolor and repurpose existing class ones. Add an awesome Red>Purple>White>Rainbow Glow for each rank and u're done.

5.2. Copy Pit of Undying Shop for AoS Seals. It can even be the exact same items if there is no dev time that can be dedicated. With the seal-gain potential of 240-300 Seals per hour (from 12-15 games), we should be making around as much in Crons (aka 480-600m/hr under current prices, or 720-900m/hr under future prices). This seems like an exact decent gain for pvping in this game and the best part would is, we'd be printing items instead of silver which makes a huge difference for the game. Remember, we'd gain seals only in Competetive, so the gains are also time-gated.

5.3. With these changes, obvious changes will be needed to the seal gain to prevent AFK activity. With uncoupling them from the gear, the simple change of Win = 20 Seals, Loss = 0 Seals would more or less solve the problem.

6.0 Gameplay & Misc

6.1. Start Round Button + Ready Button - If both teams don't want to wait any longer, and the BSR changes from above are implemented, this kind of button would be a nice QoL.

6.2. Spawn reconnecting players alive - I don't know why this is even a thing.

6.3. Forfeit button after 2:0 - Sometimes, its just hopeless.

6.4. Afk player detection - If one is detected to be afk, they are kicked and we go into 6.5.

6.5. Player Disconnection Detection - If a player is disconnected for up to 1 round and you lose, point loss is reduced by 50%. If a player is disconnected 2 or more rounds, points loss is reduced by 100%.

6.6. Automatic Voice-Chat Connection - Skip the "Accept/Deny" button and put everyone in the channel listening. Whoever wants to mic or mute from that point can do it. Sometimes players don't even know how the voice chat works.

6.7. Save Previous Round's Voice-Chat Settings - Whatever they were, they should be the same next round, with the menu opening up to remind you what you've set.

6.8. Add a BIG *SS "Set Ping Shortcut" BUTTON to the AoS menu - Players don't know it's a thing. Veterans don't know it works out of Nodewars and guilds.

6.9. Add Win Rate Statistic to the Aos menu - Basic Information shouldn't be limited to T100 or T20 per class. We shouldn't be required to open up the calculator.

Pearl Abyss, It's a lot - I know. Even more will come. 

We're in no rush. Just take small bites out of this and start acknowledging players' time and effort invested into this mode.

Peace

no, no aos rewards, i dont want to do pvp for mandatory rewards and you dont want me there either

Resist the Urge Ado.

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It's time-gated. Why would it be 'Mandatory'? You can make more silver hunting in Lotlm or PvEing in any decent spot. The thread has 46 recommended changes and all you could do is down-vote and comment on one of them.

Cosmetics would also not be mandatory. If you SUCK at pvp, you won't get the Rainbow>White>Purple>Red Glow - You'll glow Blue or Green - Simple(tm).

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In the meantime, your downvote has been noted at its appropriate spot. Thank you for contributing so extensively and vividly.

For every good idea you have ten bad ones because they are based on either misinformation or are not realistic. Your comeback ideas don't make sense in a competetive play 25% health decay is insane difference and there is no reason to punish winning team what? Sounds like a blue elo idea tbh. You are wrong about how points are distributed too it's 15-35 and it's calculated based on the ratings of players on each team. Rank decay ideas are insanely bad as well because people can't play every day it's insane to force people to play on every day of the ranked mode. Your idea to combat desync with lingering sa iframe would just break the game even more balance wise and not fix desync at all because of how desync works. Your idea about cc limit is completely misinformed you don't understand how cc system works you can't extend stiffs or kds. You can only extend a time person is cced after cc limit has been reached via downsmashes or the aoe from landed grab on another person and thats it, you can also get frozen and reseted from that but that is not a stiff or kd extension in any way. All map buffs should be removed form the game period. Giving them randomly to a losing side is such a bad idea there is no place for such mechanics in a ranked pvp mode.

46 recommended changes is too much and i barely agree with half of them.

class & gear balance should just copy how it is in open world with hardcap gear instead of this ridiculous halved stats, your comeback mechanics sound extremely dumb and do not fit in a competitive mode whatsoever and i dont see why you care so much about ranking decay. people don't always want to play every day.

pa is never going to make a matchmaking this complex and honestly it sounds pretty much impossible. just add a limit to 1 spec per team, balance the amount of grabs and have the total elo be more similar between each teams.

disagree with the scoring as it would discourage people from taking risks and probably advantage some classes much more than others.

agree with rewards, qol and the overall need for a gear meta change with better matchmaking

Such as?

I guess you're one of those players that enjoy one-sided stomps?

Did I ever assume how points are distributed so that I can be wrong? Can you tell me the exact equation (o lord of knowledge) that extrapolates 15-35 points that you can calculate with in every single match? Don't just parrot PA, use your brain a little. I guess along with enjoying stomping, you enjoy losing ~25 points on average in matches where you did your best?

Here is my rank pro-boy. And I've started working at two jobs and have barely any more time for bdo. What is yours?

Yup, so people should just stay at their rank forever after they've situated themselves in good spots, right? I guess you're one of those players that enjoys it when the ranking doesn't reflect the current active player base?

You do realize they have to play just one game, right? You do realize that if a player is that good to be at a certain rank, then even the decay that I recommend would be nothing for them to win back, right? You do realize that the decay would be capped until a certain rank to keep the top ranks constantly competitive and active, right? Did you even read and think for a second in the first place?

Homie, please, explain to me how desync works? What is your model for desync? What is wrong with the model of "Skill CC get's read in-between Iframe>Protection or Iframe>Iframe transitions? It's good that you tell me that I am wrong on _oh_so_many_things_ and since you're the wise lord of knowledge here, please do enlighten us as to how desync and the other things you claim you know work.

Which part exactly?

First, let me elaborate in the simplest terms for your lizard brain. I as a sorc, can KD someone with DoD > do a bunch of damage, then re-KD with Darkness Released to get the maximum possible duration and damage of my CC. What I am talking about in terms of extension is that you can wait for the maximum duration of the initial CC to apply the secondary CC so that you can get an insanely long CC chain (regardless of additional down smashes and whatnot). This can be very punishing - especially in a 3v3 setting - and making players lose agency over their character should be limited to an exact and certain timeframe. It should not be skill based (on counting the tics to gain the maximum duration) or rng based (on whether ull get the secondary cc in the first place).

Also, I didn't f-ing suggest anything about cc limits specifically. I SPECIFICALLY said that they should be looked at and experimented with and stated what the current problem is. Didn't offer any specific solutions, so I don't know what you are specifically mad at and what i am misinformed about. Did you even read?

When I am talking about stiffens, I am talking about maegu aoe shit, along with the 100% bsrs of some classes (including my own) that do Short Tic stiffs that allow for the rest of your team to just do free dps if they are coordinated. The duration of these stiff tics can sometimes be longer than a double KD/cc chain combo which shouldn't be a thing.

Also, again, I didn't f-ing suggest anything about cc limits specifically. I SPECIFICALLY said that they should be looked at and experimented with and stated what the current problem is. Didn't offer any specific solutions, so I don't know what you are specifically mad at and what i am misinformed about. Did you even read?

From*. You do realize that they are different ideas and they don't have to go ALL TOGETHER ALL AT ONCE, right? Sure, another idea is to make all the Puritans happy and remove buffs (and any chance of comeback mechanics) from the mode entirely. I don't like that since buffs have a place and time, just not in their current form.

Yeah, I understand. You're a CP grinch that doesn't want comeback mechanics. I wonder if you have the same thoughts when you are on the receiving end of a 3:0...and if you do, how does one reach such a state of accepting abuse?

Yup, but currently (and unfortunately) AoS seems more balanced than the open world :D . But it is truly horrid that items that don't exist in the real game exist in it, which makes a lot of the actual practice you get in it not applicable in the open world.

Because? Should i list a bunch of games that have sprawling e-sport scenes with comeback mechanics, or are you going to think about what they are yourself? How are players enjoying getting 3:0-ed...I don't get it? Has PA's abuse seeped so hard into everyone's bones that they don't notice anything that's wrong (beyond their class spec) anymore?

As mentioned both in the OP, and for homie above, Ranking should reflect the CURRENT ACTIVE PLAYERBASE. Not someone that got lucky and went afk for the rest of the time. The only players that don't care about decay are abusers of this system. Every single healthy competitive ELO game has severe decay for the T100-500 playerbase so that it doesn't remain stagnant.

Also as mentioned, if you are a good player and deserve the rank, I'm certain you'd be able to rank back right up to where you were after decaying down to 1500 - where the decay stops (a pretty high rank btw).

This is some PA PTSD for me as well. 1. Thinking that this kind of a system is complex (when it's literally matchmaking 101 for most games) and 2. Thinking that things are impossible for PA. Then let's all just curl up in a corner and cry, or go flame other (classes') forum/reddit topics until oblivion?

Your "just" is literally 3/7 points of the matchmaking additions I am recommending and an additional 2 of those 7 (1.1 and 1.7) are literally just technical capabilities/philosophies to reach that solution. So if it's impossible, how do we just do what you're recommending exactly?

Huh? How would it discourage you from taking risks if you gain points by getting kills/assists and trading damage? -1 point for a death is more discouraging than potential 3 points from kills, 3 points for damage done (assuming 30k dmg/round), 0.5 points for damage taken and 0.3 points for healing done? How is a total of potential 6.8 points discouraged by the potential of -1 point?

Some classes are already balance-advantaged by simply winning more games. Apart from that, how would this kind of point system advantage some classes more than others? Do elaborate.

(Y)

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Added your few cents to the main thread.

I never said desync or scoring are fine stop lying and misrepresenting what I said. I just said your ideas to fix these issues are based on misinformation and ignorance on top of being bad thats it. You are acting like a complete clown now.

You say this:

Which part exactly?

First, let me elaborate in the simplest terms for your lizard brain. I as a sorc, can KD someone with DoD > do a bunch of damage, then re-KD with Darkness Released to get the maximum possible duration and damage of my CC. What I am talking about in terms of extension is that you can wait for the maximum duration of the initial CC to apply the secondary CC so that you can get an insanely long CC chain (regardless of additional down smashes and whatnot). This can be very punishing - especially in a 3v3 setting - and making players lose agency over their character should be limited to an exact and certain timeframe. It should not be skill based (on counting the tics to gain the maximum duration) or rng based (on whether ull get the secondary cc in the first place).

Also, I didn't f-ing suggest anything about cc limits specifically. I SPECIFICALLY said that they should be looked at and experimented with and stated what the current problem is. Didn't offer any specific solutions, so I don't know what you are specifically mad at and what i am misinformed about. Did you even read?

Stop talking to me like you are the smart one here because that is not what you said in your original post. You can't extend kd you can apply a new one that will put a person in cc immunity. That is called reCC. or reKD not an extension. You can't extend a natural duration of stiffen you can apply a new stiff that will contribute to a cc limit counter. You are not even using a proper terms you are ignorant and wrong yet still you yap. Stop man you are embarrassing yourself and you try to insult me becuase what? Your ego got hurt? You don't like to be told you are wrong? Come on... 

Brother, I addressed 10 different points you made and you just latched onto one of them, about the specific nomenclature of what (you think) the community calls specific states in the game. I guess you are too busy photoshopping your AoS rank that you couldn't even read the other nine?

To address what you've added here specifically:

Let me assume what my misinformation and ignorance is and feel free to correct any grammar or nomenclature claims you have:

1. I claim that the system of how many points you get is random. Sure, there is a supposed rank-per-team ratio for it, but tell me EXACTLY how that is calculated per match? Also, tell me EXACTLY why the proposed system for scoring is misinformed and ignorant?

2. I claim that desync is caused when skills somehow slip in between Iframe>protection>iframe or iframe>iframe situations. I don't claim how it happens, or why it happens. Do tell what your model on this is and give us a more extensive explanation according to you instead of being a rant-andy.

My original post has had 0 edits in the suggestions themselves, apart from adding downvote-andy-s opinions. Go and read them again, where do I specifically RECOMMEND anything to be done with CC Limits? Does it say anything, or just "Needs to be revisited and experimented with"?

I will change to nomenclature to "Secondary CC", since a "reCC" is just as incorrect as a reKD for it, but you already knew what I was referring to, you just couldn't help yourself being a nomenclature nazi, while using the incorrect one yourself, just like the nazis.

Edited Comments in the OP to reflect that you think Desync and Scoring are fine, just my ideas are bad.

Thank you for your input Garu, keep up the good vibes!

a lot of assumptions and all wrong lmao, use eyes when reading please.

 should just have said that PA could make the rewards moderate silver and my point would evaporate KEKW