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#Sugerencias
Elvia Saunil Elites
08 may. 2023, 08:40 (UTC)
2552 23
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Última modificación : 08 may. 2023, 08:40 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name: BDFoundry

Region (NA/EU): EU

Suggestions/Comments: 
After the Calpheon Elvia buffs, the Saunil grind spot is now full of players grinding only elites (Saunil Commanders). This is because the Elites have a high chance of dropping despairs, as well as spawning the Captain, and the area is large enough for players to go between all elites in the zone, instead of grinding the rotation in the intended way. This has been a problem in other grind spots in the past too (such as Bloody Monastery), and is very annoying for lower-geared players who want to grind the rotation properly, since other players are constantly coming into the rotation to kill the elites only.
More posts about this issue:
Suggested change:
Change the drop rate of the despairs to be more equalized across all monsters. This would encourage players to do the rotation as intended. The Calpheon Elvia buffs were needed, but players have found a way to grind the spot in a way that pushes out lower geared players and ruins the rotations for others.
Última modificación : 08 may. 2023, 09:04 (UTC)
# 2

Problem is, sadly, that however you spin it, as long as there's profit to be made grinding zone 50 AP below your score, you'll go grind there, see centaurs. So the pk'ing won't stop. 

On the other hand, "Server taken" does seem to be quite abusive, regardless of how much PA loves to see us fight over resources. 2nd thing is, Saunils are the only monsters in the lower AP brackets that offer a decent experience, with fair loot and a convenient density. So I'd say that all Elvia Calpheon need a bit more tinkering, both in the drops category, combat xp and monster density.

There's another really good change though, that PA could implement. Pulverize the movement prowess of the few choo-choo trains remaining (zerk and valk come to mind). That won't stop the elite chasers, but it will at least slow them down (while also doing away with the same level of griefing happening across the entire game world where trains are the preferred method of grinding :D).

Última modificación : 08 may. 2023, 09:25 (UTC)
# 3
On: May 8, 2023, 09:04 (UTC), Written by Harth

On the other hand, "Server taken" does seem to be quite abusive, regardless of how much PA loves to see us fight over resources. 2nd thing is, Saunils are the only monsters in the lower AP brackets that offer a decent experience, with fair loot and a convenient density. So I'd say that all Elvia Calpheon need a bit more tinkering, both in the drops category, combat xp and monster density.

except PA definitely does not "love" to see people fight over resources which is evident by them effectively removing any and all open world PvP from the game with a ridiculous amount of channels, every channel being elvia, marni private realm and modern grindspot designs with PLENTY rotations per channel, removal of PvP at world bosses, you name it.

the days of having to actually contest your grindspot, fight over resources, with the help of your guildmates if necessary when met with a strong force, are long long gone and what little player interactions still remain in the games open world is absolutely laughable.

Última modificación : 08 may. 2023, 17:38 (UTC)
# 4
On: May 8, 2023, 09:25 (UTC), Written by SEDE

except PA definitely does not "love" to see people fight over resources which is evident by them effectively removing any and all open world PvP from the game with a ridiculous amount of channels, every channel being elvia, marni private realm and modern grindspot designs with PLENTY rotations per channel, removal of PvP at world bosses, you name it.

the days of having to actually contest your grindspot, fight over resources, with the help of your guildmates if necessary when met with a strong force, are long long gone and what little player interactions still remain in the games open world is absolutely laughable.

The problem then is that PA don't really seem to know what kind of environment they want. If it's about contesting resources and guilding up to actually have a fighting chance, then they've been going astray for the good part of the decade. If they want a more friendly environment which could attract players from games like, I dunno, FF and GW, then they fail at that too. 

So, here we stand, with Morning Light content having no grind spots to contest and, at the same time, Saunils revamp reviving the days of old. With Murrowak's being pretty damn close to a nice, BDO player friendly co-op grind spot, while at the same time PA stating they won't do anything to Abandoned Monastery, because they want conflict (and, yeah, that place is horrible to grind if there's even a 50/50 chance you'll get booted out of the Belmorn fight).

So which way are we heading? Also, it may be worth pointing out that when you could contest your Sausans in peace, the gear gap and the effects of it were not as brutal as they seem to be now. I mean, you can almost grind Saunils 1-2 weeks after season, but you'll be flattened there by players that didn't care about it for the entire year, flexing their Hexe/Quint yields. Are the saunils designed for players gearing up or to be a stomping ground for 720gs players looking for a quick buck? 

Also, say the newbie joins a veteran guild. What are the odds the players of that guild will jump to the rescue?

So, yeah. PA won't do stuff about Saunils, most likely. If they don't have this issue in KR, they won't care about the rest of the world. And the things you're mentioning... well, I don't see how those can be fixed either. You revert the game back to 2017 era and half the population bails. BDO can't really afford that. The days you morn are gone. Along with the semblance of balance between classes and gearscores.

I keep thinking the solution is to tie the drops to the gearscore, not so hard with some mechanics tied to AP. Then, it would make a bit more sense, to remove channels and have players of 700 gs to contest other players of equal stats on their turf, not 50 gs lower at Saunils, not 150 gs lower at Centaurs, etc. But I don't think that's something you'd approve of either :D

Última modificación : 08 may. 2023, 19:15 (UTC)
# 5

Calpheon Elvia has only been out for almost a year. Im sure they will get the balance right soon 🤡

Última modificación : 08 may. 2023, 19:50 (UTC)
# 6

Made around 1.7b in my first hour ever grinding there the day after the changes.  It was late night and no one was around the whole time, so I was able to grind Elites uncontested.

Used a TRI green AP offhand.  Yes, TRIGreen.  No Caphra's slotted.  Awakening Striker.  36 Despairs + TL + Blackstones.

I'm on the fence about it.  On one hand, I love the changes as Elite farming is profitable and welcomes organic player-interaction that can result in GvG (something that was huge back in the day, but is seemingly dying out).  On the other hand, Saunils is intended to be a mid-AP grind zone and the changes brings higher GS players there to, literally, grind Elites in the entire area, which gimps mid-AP players' grind who the spot is, supposedly, designed for.

Última modificación : 09 may. 2023, 07:38 (UTC)
# 7
On: May 8, 2023, 19:50 (UTC), Written by PeaceInChaos

I'm on the fence about it.  On one hand, I love the changes as Elite farming is profitable and welcomes organic player-interaction that can result in GvG (something that was huge back in the day, but is seemingly dying out).  On the other hand, Saunils is intended to be a mid-AP grind zone and the changes brings higher GS players there to, literally, grind Elites in the entire area, which gimps mid-AP players' grind who the spot is, supposedly, designed for.

I'm struggling to figure out what or for who is the content dropping intended... and so is PA, I think. As long as high gearscore players have no incentive to either grind their dedicated zones nor to stop barging in on low AP areas, this can only keep going. As for the conflicts you reminisce about, I'd be a complete ignorant and claim that at the gearscores we had back then, things were less cut and dry and a bit more fun. Not to mention, the difference was a bit narrower between high GS players and the tri Liverto or Yuria plebs.

As things stand, this whole owpvp fun revolves around how many helpful, 700+gs players you have in your guild (and even then, the fun will not be for you, if you're not one of them or you just don't like the flavour of pvp PA can't help but keep offering). If zero, then eh?!

I'mma keep saying this. Penalize players overgearing a spot not just AP-wise, but also loot wise. Same values. Down to 5%. And, before that, ensure high gearscore spots are as rewarding as they should be, for all the effort players did put in gearing up.

Última modificación : 09 may. 2023, 08:37 (UTC)
# 8

I agree that this is a problem that need solving, but I'm not sure I'm on-board with the proposed solution. I feel that making the drop chance equal across all mobs would remove the satisfaction felt when encountering/killing an elite monster.

Instead, what they could do is massively reduce the chance of the elites spawning, but also increase the chance of Crystallized Despair dropping from them. That way, people would continue feeling that the elites are worth killing/feel happy when they spawn, but without there being a reason to go out of their way to hunt for them across the map. The elite spawns could also be made personal to remove the risk of them being stolen by other players.

Última modificación : 09 may. 2023, 08:45 (UTC)
# 9
On: May 9, 2023, 08:33 (UTC), Written by Equalness

I agree that this is a problem that need solving, but I'm not sure I'm on-board with the proposed solution. I feel that making the drop chance equal across all mobs would remove the satisfaction felt when encountering/killing an elite monster.

Instead, what they could do is massively reduce the chance of the elites spawning, but also increase the chance of Crystallized Despair dropping from them. That way, people would continue feeling that the elites are worth killing/feel happy when they spawn, but without there being a reason to go out of their way to hunt for them across the map. The elite spawns could also be made personal to remove the risk of them being stolen by other players.

The proposed solution would make the spot similar to Hexe, where it doesn't matter what you whack. It would be also a lot faster and easier for PA to implement. Your suggestion wouldn't really fix anything. The despairs dropping from the elites or the elite the elites spawn would keep things as it is, pretty much, as long as the bulk of despairs one can get at Saunils is directly tied to elites hunting.

Última modificación : 09 may. 2023, 19:11 (UTC)
# 10
On: May 9, 2023, 07:38 (UTC), Written by Harth

I'm struggling to figure out what or for who is the content dropping intended... and so is PA, I think. As long as high gearscore players have no incentive to either grind their dedicated zones nor to stop barging in on low AP areas, this can only keep going. As for the conflicts you reminisce about, I'd be a complete ignorant and claim that at the gearscores we had back then, things were less cut and dry and a bit more fun. Not to mention, the difference was a bit narrower between high GS players and the tri Liverto or Yuria plebs.

As things stand, this whole owpvp fun revolves around how many helpful, 700+gs players you have in your guild (and even then, the fun will not be for you, if you're not one of them or you just don't like the flavour of pvp PA can't help but keep offering). If zero, then eh?!

I'mma keep saying this. Penalize players overgearing a spot not just AP-wise, but also loot wise. Same values. Down to 5%. And, before that, ensure high gearscore spots are as rewarding as they should be, for all the effort players did put in gearing up.

Oh, getting gear checked existed back during Liverto / Yuria era as well -- I know this first hand, being on the receiving end of said gear checking lol.  And having people in your guild willing to participate in GvG always existed as well.  While those are valid concerns, it's not like they're anything new.  Speaking from anecdotal experience, I feel that the general community in that era was more willing to PvP as compared to the general community now, which is what made PvP fun.  The possibility of getting into a fight was almost expected, compared to now where players (who I suspect to be the Seasonal-starter-themepark-MMO-refugee camp) run to the forum and complain about PK (while ignoring the exponentially increased means of avoiding PvP altogether. /rant).

I think PA intended to make this change because people complained that entirety of Calpheon Elvia is basically ONLY Hexe and Trolls.  Implementation of this change, IMO, was done with little testing or forethought.

IMO, arbitrarily implementing AP caps and even directly nerfing loot values as you've suggested tells me that PA doesn't know how to actually balance grind spots.  Or balance in other things as well, like gear.  Considering I used a TRI Green AP offhand and did noticably more DPS to mobs than if I equipped my PEN Blackstar offhand (due to braindead AP caps and outdated special attack modifiers on Ultimate Green OH).

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