Hey my name is MadMarv, I am helping with moderating Hashashin discord and because of that I am really active in the Hashashin community.
I have been gathering the problems different players in Hashashin Class Discord have with the class and want to shine a light on some issues we see as a community with the state of Hash.
Disclaimer:
Generally Hash is in a decent spot, he is no where near the bottom, when you look at class balance. There still are issues, that if fixed, would make the class feel more complete and prevent frustrating mechanics. These changes are mostly aimed at PvE or Quality of Life and should not change the PvP performance (if possible).
Please look at these suggestions as individual changes!
Succession Hashashin
Key Inputs
Issue
Solution
- Paradise Beckons; please remove this skill. It has never been used and is totally pointless. It is more of a meme than anything
Tornados
Issues
1) Tornados are summons and therefore apply summon damage. This means that they scale only with ap, crit chance and accuracy and do not interact with spot mechanics like color buffs at gyfin. This is a common issue with classes that have summon damage and a solution for all classes would be great.
- Take a look at summon damage for all classes and provide a solution for spots with spot mechanics.
2) Tornados are slow and sometimes have a mind of their own. They are completely useless at spots where you move a lot, you can control and move them, but they sometimes bug out and randomly move.
- Speed up the tornado movement speed, so they can group faster and are more versatile.
3) Tornadoes do a ton of damage, but stacking them up can take a lot of time and you need to resummon them all the time, because they are on a cooldown.
- It would be great if you could just extend the duration of the tornados instead of completely resummoning them, but this would need a larger rework.
4) Tornados can wake up mobs (like gyfin mobs) and therefore harm your grind, instead of being useful.
- Please make Tornados unsummonable somehow -> click aals breath when its on cd.
Tornado Hot Take
- Personally I believe that there is too much damage on the tornados and that it should be moved to normal skills. This would fix succ hashs performance at spots where you need to move a lot.
- With this change succ hash would be more viable at spots like tungrad ruins or at high gear levels, where stacking up the tornados is a waste of time, because just bursting the pack down is faster...
- I would personally prefer them to constantly apply a -dp debuff and act similar to Witch's red orb with a small amount of damage. This would also give some party scaling (if the debuff is applying ontop of normal ones)
- A skill that explodes the tornados and resets a bit of the cooldown would also be great. This makes the nados better at early game.
Bugs
Suggested Skill Changes/Reworks
Awakening Hashashin
Bugs
Suggested Skill Changes
Generel Changes
Rabams
After the DR/EVA changes many of our Rabams lost their identity. We had +dp buff removed and -eva reduced and now they are just bad SA skills or completely useless. Also Movement options for succ are needed, which can be easily implemented by reworking the 3rd Rabams.
Rabam 1
Rabam 2
Rabam 3
PA please fix!
Great post! Succession Hashashin is one of the most (if not the most) unique class in the game, and it's extremely disheartening to see that you can't play that class at certain high-end spots like Tungrad Ruins.
I agree with most of the changes, but I would change a couple of things (PVP).
Succession Hashashin
Suggested Skill Changes/Reworks
- Hourglass of Death: It is one of the most used skills but it has a small gap at the end of the skill. Give it the full SA so that it does not have gaps when concatenating with other skills such as "Prime Chosen Blade".
I agree with most of the changes, but I would change a couple of things (PVP).
Succession Hashashin
Suggested Skill Changes/Reworks
- Hourglass of Death: It is one of the most used skills but it has a small gap at the end of the skill. Give it the full SA so that it does not have gaps when concatenating with other skills such as "Prime Chosen Blade".
You are totally right, that was a mistake on my part. I corrected it. I meant to write "remove the Bound on Hourglass of Death and make it full SA".
I say Do Not Change The Key for Rupture..
---But yeah Paradise beckons needs to be changed or revamped.
Hashahin Rabam (Shadow slicer movement rabam) was op before they nerf it. cuz it was perma iframe and movement.
---Yes, Aals mirage not many people doesn't use it including me. lol But I had a fun times testing it on hour glass skill. its very risky to use it tho. takes tons of timing. and the cd is too long for it to be that type of a skill. this rabam needs revamp or change
---I agree about the tornado thing sometimes it doesn't follow.
---I Agree with Sand tornado Rabam needs to lower down the CD or just revamped so people would find it useful.
--I do not agree to the E buff changes tho. that will be broken and too strong for pve.
---About the Succ hash not being able to grind tungrad ruins? I don't know about that. But I use Succ hash to grind Tungrad. and it's fine.
I say Do Not Change The Key for Rupture..
--I do not agree to the E buff changes tho. that will be broken and too strong for pve.
---About the Succ hash not being able to grind tungrad ruins? I don't know about that. But I use Succ hash to grind Tungrad. and it's fine.
Thanks for the feedback! I want to adress some things, to keep improving this post and maybe start a discussion.
1) Do you have another idea for solving the input problem for Rupture and Tailcutter? Like rather giving Tailcutter another input?
2) I dont think just giving 10 ap would do much, as most other classes already have it. Yes it changes pvx performance, 10 ap are still 10 ap, but otherwise it just feels completely useless.
3) How do you define "fine"? We gathered multiple hours for Tungrad from really experienced succ Hash players and they were all pretty bad. I for example did multiple hours and got 22k average at 343 ap (before the range nerf, fully buffed and min maxed, no NW buff) thats roughly succ nova level and up to 10k+ trash below a meta class. I agree, that not every class needs to be op or something, but its also pretty painful to grind. You got pet damage, bad movement, relatively low aoe on most skills and more stuff.
1) Yes, my Idea? is maybe to give everyone an option so they able to change the Skill keybind for every skill they prefer. so if people want to change it for their own benefit or if they think it'll be easier for them. and for the people who don't wanna change theirs they could stay with the older Skill keybind.
2) even with infinite blockjump? if you put monster ap or human damage or popping any AP buff on Haladie Throw you can infinitely blockjump by just pressing E.
sure it consumes the ap,monster ap, etc, but you can re-pop them buff again with the right addons that you prefer. this will make you move pack to pack faster.
3) I'm not really sure about Nova. cuz Im pretty sure they are still gated on how their pet loots it has cooldown so. but yeah possible they have the pet that loots really far so they could just leave the pack that fast. but yes its still gated by how their pet loots.
1) Yes, my Idea? is maybe to give everyone an option so they able to change the Skill keybind for every skill they prefer. so if people want to change it for their own benefit or if they think it'll be easier for them. and for the people who don't wanna change theirs they could stay with the older Skill keybind.
2) even with infinite blockjump? if you put monster ap or human damage or popping any AP buff on Haladie Throw you can infinitely blockjump by just pressing E.
sure it consumes the ap,monster ap, etc, but you can re-pop them buff again with the right addons that you prefer. this will make you move pack to pack faster.
3) I'm not really sure about Nova. cuz Im pretty sure they are still gated on how their pet loots it has cooldown so. but yeah possible they have the pet that loots really far so they could just leave the pack that fast. but yes its still gated by how their pet loots.
1. They are not going to add an entire system that lets you rebind keys just because Hash has 2 abilities on the same key. People have asked for this before and PA has not added it yet. I see no reason not to change the input for Tail Cutter and Rupture. It might take a bit of getting used to at first but it'd be much healthier long term.
2. The only spot where the "infinite" blockjump would be relevant is Tungrad Ruins and there are a multitude of other classes that can move similarly fast. Awakening Maegu has a tp skill on a 4 sec cooldown, Succ Dosa can teleport with a 6 second cooldown, Awak Nova's Comet is also an almost instant gap closer. If this is an actual concern then they can simply add the wind-up animation that the blockjump has off cooldown to it while it's also used during cooldown.
3. I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Awakening Nova and when you say pets you're thinking of the pets that pick up loot, rather than the summons Succession Nova uses. The point was that Succ Nova is one of the worst pve classes in the game (especially at Tungrad) and Succ Hash is performing similar to her. If you have a vid of yourself grinding Tungrad Ruins and getting 30-35k trash in an hour I'd love to see it tho.
1. I'm pretty sure some people would like to change their skill keybind aswell on their other class not just hash players. But yeah I just answered his question. lol Thats true tho no reason to change the hotkey for those certain skills. especially for me lol. this is more likely an skill issue for others, if you're gonna ask me. and exprience issue for others.
3. nope, the actual pet your pet is gated by their cd. its how PA gate people from grinding too fast. also same on number 1. this is more likely an skill issue for others or experience issue others, if you can't farm that much. but yes. you cannot grind way too fast in this game because how the pet loots. its gated.
I would highly suggest to play the class longer. practice makes perfect . Build your muscle memory on the class you love.
1. I'm pretty sure some people would like to change their skill keybind aswell on their other class not just hash players. But yeah I just answered his question. lol Thats true tho no reason to change the hotkey for those certain skills. especially for me lol. this is more likely an skill issue for others, if you're gonna ask me. and exprience issue for others.
3. nope, the actual pet your pet is gated by their cd. its how PA gate people from grinding too fast. also same on number 1. this is more likely an skill issue for others or experience issue others, if you can't farm that much. but yes. you cannot grind way too fast in this game because how the pet loots. its gated.
I would highly suggest to play the class longer. practice makes perfect . Build your muscle memory on the class you love.
1. I've been playing Hash since he came out and I've been in multiple high end pvp guilds always performing well. I'm not claiming to be the best hash in the world or anything but this has nothing to do with skill. If you use tail cutter and get hit during the skill it can get accelerated and finish instantly causing you to immediately activate Rupture.
3. I don't know if this is a language barrier but you're completely misunderstanding what both I and him are saying. The point wasn't that Succession Nova grinds too fast and is only limited by pet cooldowns. It was the opposite. Succession Nova is a TERRIBLE grinder at Tungrad Ruins and Succ Hash grinds about as fast as her. This is NOT a good thing. Again if you think this is a skill issue then please find or record a video of a Succ Hash pulling 30-36k trash at Tungrad Ruins. I would love to see it.
Also why do you write like this