Black Desert Remasterizado

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1 Ejecuta BlackDesert_Installer_NAEU.exe para instalar el lanzador de Black Desert.

2 Una vez completada la instalación, empieza el juego.

Foros

UTC 23 : 59 15 may. 2024
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How to exploit BDO PvP
08 sep. 2022, 20:57 (UTC)
4367 69
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Última modificación : 22 sep. 2022, 12:22 (UTC)
# 41

No, usually when you have frame drops during DPS skills, the game skips all the attack frames, and you dont do any damage. Thats why in some cases FPS = DPS is actually true, as if the number of frames available is not high enough, some of the hits are simply skipped. 

The freeze frame interaction only works for "state" type of skills, like movement and grabs (the screenshot grab extension issue was very well known for a long time).

It also worked on protections, however, half a year ago, there was a "fix" that stopped players from being able to extend the protection time of a skill by intentionally decreasing FPS to drag out the animation. Nowadays, the protection time of an animation has a hard coded maximum, which leads to the so-called "slow bug", where protections on skills run out before the skill animation has finished, if the target is exposed to slows. The protection icons are still showing, but the protection is not applied. There are a number of videos and posts about it floating around as well.

Aka, when PA tries to fix part of an exploit, it can happen that legitimate gameplay gets impacted as well, so be careful what you wish for.

Última modificación : 22 sep. 2022, 13:22 (UTC)
# 42

Nice info bruh, I am fairly new to this. That is some rabbit hole I peeked into...

18 54
Lv Privado
Buraddosutomu
Última modificación : 22 sep. 2022, 14:47 (UTC)
# 43

To clarify a bit further, "FPS = DPS" is rarely true in the pure form of how it sounds. 

The interaction is observable in 3 ways:

1. Dropped frames leading to loss of hits: In this case, it is more about having stable FPS and no framedrops, instead of high FPS. You need to always be above 60 FPS, and not have significant dips in terms of frames while executing a skill. It is important to run BDO at a FPS that is sustainable and does not lead to freezes, as you will otherwise lose control of the character and lose hits from skills.

2. Animation speedup of singular skills below 60 FPS: Skill animations are set at 60 FPS. If you have less than that, the animation time for a skill increases rather significantly. However, the animation time does no longer increase strongly when going above 60 FPS. The second observable loss in animation time decrease is at around 140 FPS. Be aware that the gain here is in the low miliseconds. This means, just having high FPS does not necessarily decrease the animation time of your skills (as long as you stay above 60 FPS), as this effect is miniscule.

3. Decrease of Input Lag and Increase of Chaining of Skills: The highest impact that FPS has on combat is the ability to use skills quickly in succession. It has been tested that following skills can be used much earlier in the animation when having high FPS compared to low FPS. This is the reason why a combo at high FPS can sometimes be significantly faster than at 60 FPS, as you simply chain skills faster. The individual skills are barely faster, but the transition between skills is strongly sped up. This allows covering of gaps of classes (eg my class DK has far more gaps in between skills when playing at low FPS compared to high FPS) and executing longer combos / capitalising on air attacks, as the next skill comes out earlier than when playing at low FPS. 

This is also where class imbalance comes to play. Classes that have long skill animations with lingering protections benefit much less from high FPS than classes with many fast skills that also have to chain different protections to cover up gaps. Additionally, classes that are able to cancel most of their skills with other skills already also benefit less, as the improved chaining is not necessary. Classes without smooth skill connections or cancels benefit a lot from the increase in FPS.

Using my class as another example, this is observable when comparing Awakening and Succession. Succession is able to cancel their skills by using the side dash, and has multiple skill interactions that allow for chaining of skills. This is why Succession has a lower "FPS requirement" than awakening has. Awa DK is well known to be one of the classes that strongly benefits from high FPS as she cannot cancel her skills into each other unless she has high FPS, at which point a lot more fluid movement is possible. In many cases, the difference between an average and a great DK can be the amount of FPS and their use of it.

I used to have videos of all 3 points I brought up here, but they did get lost in the last few years of experiencing these issues and simply getting used to it. Ill update the post if I find any of them again.

Edit: Example of point 2, comparison of animation speed at 20 and at 90+ FPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPPv50NUSo4

There also is another mechanic, which is hit stagger. If you get hit by a skill, one of two things can happen:

1. Your animation speed decreases and you feel like youre basically stuck. This happens often for example during Predatory Hunt on Berserker. Hitting the zerker while hes in the air will drastically decrease his animation speed (though it was improved a bit after reworks). It also happens more often for other skills / classes when FPS is low.

2. Your animation speed increases and skills finish in the fraction of what their usual attack speed is. You can easily test this yourself by having sorcs use their "Mark of the Shadow" skill on you. With high FPS, and the more sorcs you have available, you can pull some incredible combos in a short amount of time. This video is a good example of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If5NeUWiZTY

Usually this happens unwillingly though, and you cast a skill for protection that gets sped up and you get CCd because you were not following up quickly enough.

Última modificación : 22 sep. 2022, 17:29 (UTC)
# 44
On: Sep 22, 2022, 14:32 (UTC), Written by Minarya

To clarify a bit further, "FPS = DPS" is rarely true in the pure form of how it sounds. 

The interaction is observable in 3 ways:

1. Dropped frames leading to loss of hits: In this case, it is more about having stable FPS and no framedrops, instead of high FPS. You need to always be above 60 FPS, and not have significant dips in terms of frames while executing a skill. It is important to run BDO at a FPS that is sustainable and does not lead to freezes, as you will otherwise lose control of the character and lose hits from skills.

2. Animation speedup of singular skills below 60 FPS: Skill animations are set at 60 FPS. If you have less than that, the animation time for a skill increases rather significantly. However, the animation time does no longer increase strongly when going above 60 FPS. The second observable loss in animation time decrease is at around 140 FPS. Be aware that the gain here is in the low miliseconds. This means, just having high FPS does not necessarily decrease the animation time of your skills (as long as you stay above 60 FPS), as this effect is miniscule.

3. Decrease of Input Lag and Increase of Chaining of Skills: The highest impact that FPS has on combat is the ability to use skills quickly in succession. It has been tested that following skills can be used much earlier in the animation when having high FPS compared to low FPS. This is the reason why a combo at high FPS can sometimes be significantly faster than at 60 FPS, as you simply chain skills faster. The individual skills are barely faster, but the transition between skills is strongly sped up. This allows covering of gaps of classes (eg my class DK has far more gaps in between skills when playing at low FPS compared to high FPS) and executing longer combos / capitalising on air attacks, as the next skill comes out earlier than when playing at low FPS. 

This is also where class imbalance comes to play. Classes that have long skill animations with lingering protections benefit much less from high FPS than classes with many fast skills that also have to chain different protections to cover up gaps. Additionally, classes that are able to cancel most of their skills with other skills already also benefit less, as the improved chaining is not necessary. Classes without smooth skill connections or cancels benefit a lot from the increase in FPS.

Using my class as another example, this is observable when comparing Awakening and Succession. Succession is able to cancel their skills by using the side dash, and has multiple skill interactions that allow for chaining of skills. This is why Succession has a lower "FPS requirement" than awakening has. Awa DK is well known to be one of the classes that strongly benefits from high FPS as she cannot cancel her skills into each other unless she has high FPS, at which point a lot more fluid movement is possible. In many cases, the difference between an average and a great DK can be the amount of FPS and their use of it.

I used to have videos of all 3 points I brought up here, but they did get lost in the last few years of experiencing these issues and simply getting used to it. Ill update the post if I find any of them again.

Edit: Example of point 2, comparison of animation speed at 20 and at 90+ FPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPPv50NUSo4

There also is another mechanic, which is hit stagger. If you get hit by a skill, one of two things can happen:

1. Your animation speed decreases and you feel like youre basically stuck. This happens often for example during Predatory Hunt on Berserker. Hitting the zerker while hes in the air will drastically decrease his animation speed (though it was improved a bit after reworks). It also happens more often for other skills / classes when FPS is low.

2. Your animation speed increases and skills finish in the fraction of what their usual attack speed is. You can easily test this yourself by having sorcs use their "Mark of the Shadow" skill on you. With high FPS, and the more sorcs you have available, you can pull some incredible combos in a short amount of time. This video is a good example of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If5NeUWiZTY

Usually this happens unwillingly though, and you cast a skill for protection that gets sped up and you get CCd because you were not following up quickly enough.

Ok if fps is not giving as much advantage in terms of damage .

You said  Skill animation time isn't  being sped up but the time between skills is cut down a lot which that in itself is a problem and makes it basically feel like the animation is being sped up although you said it slightly is.

Mobility right now in bdo is insanely fast. People can from max view distance warp and cc you with only them in the distance twitching. This is a problem and I believe some of it is the speed up skill to skill. The other part is PA incompetence with mobility. Idk how they can look at current mobility and think that this is ok it completely ruins any possibility for balanced combat. As another post said it's like fleas hopping around each other when you watch 2 people fight even in a 1v1 it's simply rediculous and we deserve better as players of this game. 

Combat should be about how 2 players react to each other. Not about predicting.

I play awk ranger I can tell you in the past with perfect play and reacting to things coming at me provided no desync I could outplay what came at me.

Now that simply is not the case I'm predicting where people will appear or move to rather then reacting to someone's movement and it feels and plays terrible  to how it did in the past.

And click to move only makes it that much worse ( this should've been. Removed a while ago)

Someone please explain why a succession zerker can move significantly faster then a musa mehwa? They legit can run circles  around people and zerker is not the only class that can do this.

Question for you as well why does CC feel so inconsistent with its durations I knock someone down down smash them it shows it hits but sometimes people  are up in 1 second other times they look like they are on the ground forever. Why is cc not consistent at all?

Actually I think consistency is the biggest issue with current BDO as a whole nothing is consistent  rng resistances  add to all of this.

Última modificación : 22 sep. 2022, 18:06 (UTC)
# 45
On: Sep 22, 2022, 17:10 (UTC), Written by Easay9

Ok if fps is not giving as much advantage in terms of damage .

You said  Skill animation time isn't  being sped up but the time between skills is cut down a lot which that in itself is a problem and makes it basically feel like the animation is being sped up although you said it slightly is.

Mobility right now in bdo is insanely fast. People can from max view distance warp and cc you with only them in the distance twitching. This is a problem and I believe some of it is the speed up skill to skill. The other part is PA incompetence with mobility. Idk how they can look at current mobility and think that this is ok it completely ruins any possibility for balanced combat. As another post said it's like fleas hopping around each other when you watch 2 people fight even in a 1v1 it's simply rediculous and we deserve better as players of this game. 

Combat should be about how 2 players react to each other. Not about predicting.

I play awk ranger I can tell you in the past with perfect play and reacting to things coming at me provided no desync I could outplay what came at me.

Now that simply is not the case I'm predicting where people will appear or move to rather then reacting to someone's movement and it feels and plays terrible  to how it did in the past.

And click to move only makes it that much worse ( this should've been. Removed a while ago)

Someone please explain why a succession zerker can move significantly faster then a musa mehwa? They legit can run circles  around people and zerker is not the only class that can do this.

Question for you as well why does CC feel so inconsistent with its durations I knock someone down down smash them it shows it hits but sometimes people  are up in 1 second other times they look like they are on the ground forever. Why is cc not consistent at all?

Actually I think consistency is the biggest issue with current BDO as a whole nothing is consistent  rng resistances  add to all of this.

I did not say that FPS and damage are not related. I just said the relation is not as straightforward as some people seem to believe, and tried to elaborate on what the actual issues are. The discussion around FPS = DPS often goes toward issues that are hardly the culprint, and ignore the "input lag / skill chaining" issue for the most part, when that is the largest effect. The post was not meant as justification, but rather as explanation for OP, who stated they were new to this whole thing. 

As for the CC duration, there are multiple reasons:

1. Some CCs have different durations (eg KD lasts longer than Bound or float, but when the enemy is on the ground, no difference can be seen. Only the air state shows which CC is which)

2. Bound getup animation can be cancelled by some skills. This is not possible for float and KD. 
3. Hitstutter affects duration of air state. It can both be prolongued and sped up. 
4. Down / Air smashes change duration of CCs. 

5. Subjective perception influences your judgement. 

Última modificación : 22 sep. 2022, 18:37 (UTC)
# 46
On: Sep 22, 2022, 18:06 (UTC), Written by Minarya

I did not say that FPS and damage are not related. I just said the relation is not as straightforward as some people seem to believe, and tried to elaborate on what the actual issues are. The discussion around FPS = DPS often goes toward issues that are hardly the culprint, and ignore the "input lag / skill chaining" issue for the most part, when that is the largest effect. The post was not meant as justification, but rather as explanation for OP, who stated they were new to this whole thing. 

As for the CC duration, there are multiple reasons:

1. Some CCs have different durations (eg KD lasts longer than Bound or float, but when the enemy is on the ground, no difference can be seen. Only the air state shows which CC is which)

2. Bound getup animation can be cancelled by some skills. This is not possible for float and KD. 
3. Hitstutter affects duration of air state. It can both be prolongued and sped up. 
4. Down / Air smashes change duration of CCs. 

5. Subjective perception influences your judgement. 

Ok thanks for clearing that up.

Fps = dps is a  indeed a issue 

:)

It's not my perception I have Timed them. If I knock someone down arrive at thier location downsmash  the target  to extend the cc some times they will be up in less then a second 1- 2 seconds or they are stuck there and don't get up . sometimes

running away even when i can clearly see their body bounce off the ground on hit.  So why is the target not on the ground for the same duration everytime? 

Again no consistency in the combat. Yet they are trying to make a esport out of solare.

Kek good  luck with that PA 

Última modificación : 23 sep. 2022, 13:43 (UTC)
# 47

I can see now how are people so skeptical about this being fixed.

What about desync? Now I understand desync is ping related, and I experienced it on all kinds of classes, only in pvp.

In one case the SA icon show up and I get stunned anyway. (could be "slow bug" of sorts?)

In other case the skill go on coodown but doesn't cast at all.

But then I try to play Ninja at 60 FPS arenas and it was desync fiesta so bad, I coudn't help but think it be impossible for me to play iframe class in PvP. But when I pop at 150 FPS, it still happens but only ocasionally, and 60 vs 150 FPS feels very different on this class in particular. Seem to me like there is FPS related desync when a low FPS and high FPS players interact. 

18 54
Lv Privado
Buraddosutomu
Última modificación : 23 sep. 2022, 13:51 (UTC)
# 48
On: Sep 23, 2022, 13:43 (UTC), Written by ěL

I can see now how are people so skeptical about this being fixed.

What about desync? Now I understand desync is ping related, and I experienced it on all kinds of classes, only in pvp.

In one case the SA icon show up and I get stunned anyway. (could be "slow bug" of sorts?)

In other case the skill go on coodown but doesn't cast at all.

But then I try to play Ninja at 60 FPS arenas and it was desync fiesta so bad, I coudn't help but think it be impossible for me to play iframe class in PvP. But when I pop at 150 FPS, it still happens but only ocasionally, and 60 vs 150 FPS feels very different on this class in particular. Seem to me like there is FPS related desync when a low FPS and high FPS players interact. 

It's not only ping related. If you assume that the combat is server side and processed instantly then it's only depens on your ping.

But low tier game developers trend to do stuff clientside, which adds your ping on top of your openent ping on top of the server's time to process it.

Also the issue with gaps due ping can be completely negated by hiring decent devs who add features to mitigate it like spell queuing...

244 4634
Lv 62
Hnnie
Última modificación : 04 oct. 2022, 09:53 (UTC)
# 49

I have another one.

How some people instant stand up or dash away right the very moment they touch grass. Like near zero 0,01s duration of downed state. I've seen others complain about this inbefore. And seen sorc do it in my fights.

18 54
Lv Privado
Buraddosutomu
Última modificación : 04 oct. 2022, 13:01 (UTC)
# 50
On: Oct 4, 2022, 09:53 (UTC), Written by ěL

I have another one.

How some people instant stand up or dash away right the very moment they touch grass. Like near zero 0,01s duration of downed state. I've seen others complain about this inbefore. And seen sorc do it in my fights.

Thats not an exploit, that can be caused by 2 things:

1. Normal desync (Person is CCd on your screen, but not actually)

2. Person had a lingering SA buff (eg Guardian Ebuff, Valk Heal) and got grabbed. In that case, the duration of the grab disables the char, but the actual CC of the grab (KD, Bound, Float) does not apply. Aka, the person stands up as soon as the grab put them on the ground.

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