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UTC 20 : 42 13 mai 2024
CEST 22 : 42 13 mai 2024
PDT 13 : 42 13 mai 2024
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#Réponses
[PVE] Evasion Suggestions
7 août 2023, 04:49 (UTC)
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Dernière modification : 14 août 2023, 13:32 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name: Tist

Region (NA/EU): NA

Issue:
Evasion is a strong early to mid game stat in PVE with mobs having low accuracy but a completely useless stat with the release of Crypt, Hexe and now Dehkia. The mobs have very high accuracy and will 100% shred any player not running a very high evasion build, which is not suitable for PVE. In my current setup wearing Muskans & [Eva] Dahns I have -36 DR compared to their DR counterparts. I understand it might be difficulty balancing around evasion/dr to make challenging PVE content, but my suggestion should make it straight forward. 

Suggestion: 
Increase the evasion gear +monster damage reduction to compensate for the difference in +dr. This will make both gear choices acceptable for PVE, while not impacting PVP at all. There would be minor impact to summon damage and realistically this needs fixed to only work off dr. 
See screenshot of example: 
Added Dahns - the devs already have the monster stat added to these items. They just need to modify the monster dr stat to make them balanced in PVE.. 

Concerns:
Q: Wont evasion be better than dr in pve now?
No, all new end game spots ignore evasion entirely and only mitigate based on DR. Evasion will still be worse because it has less accuracy. Evasion will be stronger at places like orcs for end game players, but defense is not a concern at these spots.  Tuvala timmy will still not have enough evasion to make it work at any spot.

Q: Why not make evasion scale better in PVE? 
A: The issue with evasion in general is how strong it becomes at high levels of evasion which could trivialize PVE content. I believe this is why they moved to new end game spots having near if not 100% hit rate. The change would make it easier to balance around everyone having the same monster DR.
Q: Bhegs also have more accuracy than Leeburs, should that be increased?
A: As of right now we do not have a monster acc stat, so this would need to remain unchanged not to impact PVP. That and only crypt afaik requires very high level of accuracy to hit the mobs. Other spots can be compensated with crystals if needed.
Dernière modification : 7 août 2023, 19:27 (UTC)
# 2

No, just no.  This would make Evasion the only viable grinding option.  

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Dernière modification : 8 août 2023, 02:18 (UTC)
# 3

DR would still be better as it has more accuracy meaning you can build more ap. The end game mobs have 100% hit rate in PVE, which means DR builds are always better. So please explain how evasion is a viable choice in PVE, if you cannot evade anything while also having less accuracy and DR. 

Evasion would be stronger in low to mid spots but you are not at risk of dying anyway. If you are dying to mobs at orcs you have bigger concerns than ~40 DR. And with the change, they could just remove evasion from PVE and make it strictly DR based, which they are actively doing for end game content anyway.

Dernière modification : 8 août 2023, 12:22 (UTC)
# 4
On: Aug 7, 2023, 19:27 (UTC), Written by DumpstrWizard

No, just no.  This would make Evasion the only viable grinding option.  

Why would it though? As homie states, you are trading ~6% accuracy for ~6% evasion in most normal circumstances. In dehkia, you are trading 6% accuracy and some DR for 0% evasion.

The fix shouldn't be adding stats tho. Just lower mob accuracy so that the damage received is equal to the damage received with DR. But even if you added the stats that he is requesting, it wouldn't lead to Eva being meta for pve due to accuracy being so important at endgame (even at the endest, that 25 from the gloves means you can skip a viper or 2 elkars at some spots for more damage).

Dernière modification : 8 août 2023, 22:14 (UTC)
# 5

Just add monster accuracy because pve endgame for PA = mobs with high Eva 

And for PA accuracy = only PvP...

You can play with Eva build because your character have (PA choice) a good scaling with this stat 

But you can't grind with this one because for Eva characters you have less accuracy in your skills + you have less accuracy without bheg + you take more damage from endgame spot + you have less AP if you want more dmg reduction..

Why? Because Eva and accuracy are balanced only for pvp but PA dsnt stop with new PvE spot for more accuracy/ignore Eva...

Dernière modification : 9 août 2023, 04:46 (UTC)
# 6

Yeah, really there are underlying issues in them trying to balance both PVE and PVP around evasion, dr and accuracy builds.  DR works in both pvp and pve, but evasion has moved to pvp stat only. So my solution may not be the best but they definitely need to reconsider both builds in pve & pvp.

Dernière modification : 14 août 2023, 08:01 (UTC)
# 7
On: Aug 7, 2023, 19:27 (UTC), Written by DumpstrWizard

No, just no.  This would make Evasion the only viable grinding option.  

This isn't entirely wrong - if Muskans and Leebur had more built in Monster DR & Monster Accuracy then new players would only ever get leeburs and muskans because they would technically be superior in both PVP and PVE. Yes I know you need a lot of EVA to make it work, yes I know DR is better on some classes more than others. It just goes behind the idea of putting urugons and bhegs to become niche if long term you are better off with leeburs and muskans more often than bhegs and urugons.

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You can argue that's how it is right now with bhegs urugons but at least there's that weight of "pvp or pve" for a lot of people and on a lot of classes. There should be added Monster DR and Monster Accuracy to compensate, but that should only be on dead god armors rather than the yellow grade boss gears... since dead god armors are when people start to step into the late endgame.

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tl;dr Dead god armors should have added Monster DR/Monster EVA/Monster Accuracy (none of these applicable in PVP) to match (maybe not 100% equal but at least a bit closer) that of their counterparts, but NOT yellow grade boss gears.

Dernière modification : 14 août 2023, 15:25 (UTC)
# 8
On: Aug 14, 2023, 07:59 (UTC), Written by Cash

This isn't entirely wrong - if Muskans and Leebur had more built in Monster DR & Monster Accuracy then new players would only ever get leeburs and muskans because they would technically be superior in both PVP and PVE. Yes I know you need a lot of EVA to make it work, yes I know DR is better on some classes more than others. It just goes behind the idea of putting urugons and bhegs to become niche if long term you are better off with leeburs and muskans more often than bhegs and urugons.

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You can argue that's how it is right now with bhegs urugons but at least there's that weight of "pvp or pve" for a lot of people and on a lot of classes. There should be added Monster DR and Monster Accuracy to compensate, but that should only be on dead god armors rather than the yellow grade boss gears... since dead god armors are when people start to step into the late endgame.

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tl;dr Dead god armors should have added Monster DR/Monster EVA/Monster Accuracy (none of these applicable in PVP) to match (maybe not 100% equal but at least a bit closer) that of their counterparts, but NOT yellow grade boss gears.

I am wondering if you are purposefully being disingenuous with your post, or if you just did NOT read OP and comments thereafter. 

OP did NOT say "Add Monster Accuracy plx". I repeat. OP did not say "Add Monster Accuracy plx" . I'll repeat it a third time just to make sure - A rando on the post recommended "Monster Accuracy" being added to evasion gear - you just latched onto that so that you can win an argument. 

I even explained extensively what the trade-off between DR(aka Accuracy) and Evasion gear is and why ANY solution to Eva@Endgame wouldn't change shiz for DR players, because having 6% more accuracy on gloves (or replacing a viper with smth else in crystals) is too relevant when it comes to damage [at endgame spots]. The best, simplest, and harmless adjustment to this would be to just adjust the accuracy @Dehkia and several other spots so that the tankiness of Evasion equals DR in PVE - hell, it should probably even be better than DR because of the accuracy loss you eat by wearing Eva gear.

Also...gatekeeping these adjustments to fallen god only...just facepalm.

Dernière modification : 14 août 2023, 16:04 (UTC)
# 9
On: Aug 14, 2023, 15:25 (UTC), Written by Zoroaster

I am wondering if you are purposefully being disingenuous with your post, or if you just did NOT read OP and comments thereafter. 

OP did NOT say "Add Monster Accuracy plx". I repeat. OP did not say "Add Monster Accuracy plx" . I'll repeat it a third time just to make sure - A rando on the post recommended "Monster Accuracy" being added to evasion gear - you just latched onto that so that you can win an argument. 

You did not really type this LMAO. Good to know having a different opinion from you is disingenious and trying to win an argument from you.

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Monster DR is not an issue for anything below Ash Forest. You can live with muskans so long as you PEN and start to caphras them for every zone below ash. You can even live with muskans at ash. Ive even taken c20 muskans to crypt, worse than urugons but still viable because misplay = death and not just gear. Endgame zones are where monster DR is wanted, this is why devs have already gated the stat with dead god armors.

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OP wants to add monster DR to eva dead god gloves and later on Im sure eva dead god boots too. That's fine. But if you want to equalize gear for PVE on stats that matter then monster accuracy is equally important

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