That just does not happen. You can't run around and gank, you have about 3-4 kills in your tank before you are out of karma and suffer enormous consequences as a red player. The current system already controls how much PvP can happen outside of the bounds of a guild declaring war. I defy you to record a video of someone ganking you for no reason on a normal server while you are grinding. It is EXTREMELY rare and I truly believe you are making up stories about phantom worries that do not happen.

wow will join elder scroll online ^_^

I see a lot of players pointing to Arsha as a place for players who "like PvP". That is not a solution.

In Arsha PvP happens with no consequences. This means if you kill someone, they come back. Immediately. Over and Over again. The players who are concerned about the one-sided war dec change do not want endless PvP, they are afraid that this change will enable players to show up to their grindspots and grind over them or harrass them. You can see this happen in servers where PvP flagging is disabled like in Season Servers. In normal servers right now you have the option of sending out a war dec to deter or fight them, or in worst case scenario you can risk going red on one character. In normal servers right now, when you try to grind over someone you take on the risk of PvP death.

In the proposed changes posted on the KR website, neither would be options. You either protect your spot by making your whole roster of characters red, risking crystal loss and gear downgrade, or you log out. You could try channel swapping, but what if you have a limited time and the spot you were grinding is all occupied on other channels? What if the spot you wanted to grind doesn't have a marni realm? It would be frustrating and force you to go grind somewhere you don't want to. These changes make a problem that could've been solved with a simple war dec or just by making 1 character red and not a whole roster of 10+ characters a whole lot more complicated.

Marni realms are a great addition to the game, but they are not a cure all. Increasing the Marni time was needed, but making it so that most if not all players hide away in the Marni realm is a sure way to make the general open world aspect of the game feel deader then ever.

This is not about PvP players vs PvE players vs Red Players. This is about PA applying clunky bandaid fixes to issues that could be solved with more precise, targetted fixes.

One-sided guild war decs? Make them auto drop after 1hr and go on a 7 day cooldown to prevent perma decs. Mob feeding griefing? Remove crystal loss on PvE death for positive Karma players. Negative Karma players? Let them lose crystals on death, remove gear downgrading, and just make them lose gear durability on death. Tax them with memory fragments. Or something. Make it too costly to be a Red player for most players. Marni realms? Max 2 or 3 hours a day and then to help new players with progression double it to 4x to 6x for Season Channels.

I'm sure there are other options out there. The Karma system and the War-Dec system BOTH have needed changes for a long time, but I just don't think the changes PA mentioned are the right ones.

I agree, PvP is important and unfortunately the solution offered is going in only one direction. The karma system needs some major tweaking. The only thing I did agree with was the one-sided dec change and only because I have been in a guild that did have a dec held against it for a VERY long time and the only thing offered by PA staff was "talk to them or leave your guild." Which honestly is not really a solution. I find your change a bit of a better middle ground to what was stated since it does still give you the freedom to dec but also allows for you to not be stuck in an endless war where lower geared players with a lower number of bodies just get rolled to the point of quitting the game.

Idk, I don't see there being a "perfect" solution but the current one in place is far from it.

Is being tackled while playing football being harassed?

Is having the ball thrown at you during dodgeball harassment?

These are integral aspects to how the games work, just like flagging up and killing someone who was bothgering me in BDO was essential. Im letting that player know in game terms that they are annoying me. If they come back and keep dying they have the freedom to leave. Or they have the freedom to call their guild to camp me 4v1. ..maybe I'll call mine and we can have a big throwdown over some rotation somewhere. If at the end of all of that I find out their guild was stronger than mine, or maybe they just 2 hit me when i try to warn them away. Thats cool with me, the strong eat where they want, and the weak eat where they can. I'll just swap over to a different channel.

but at the end of all that i had a fun storyline and a lot of my guild got some fun uncapped pvp content. rather than going to Marni's Iso-cube and stamping lisence plates for an hour.

Record video of it or it didn't happen.

It might be integral to you, but it isn't to many. The game hasn't been pushed as a pvp game for a very long time now. The days of perma red gankers sitting outside towns waiting for people to ambush are long gone and very short-lived. 

To the perma red deniers here, they exist, have existed for a long time, but are relatively rare, and increasingly so as the karma system does its job of disincentivizing certsin behavior. Just a few weeks ago someone killed a bunch of player horses parked outside serendia during a kzarka wb. 

People complaining that war decs needing to be 2 sided enables griefing are ignoring the fact that war deca being 1 sided enables griefing. 

Karma being family wide is iffy, but I get it. Red players hide behind their alts to ignore the consequences of being red, use gear that can't degrade or is cheap enough or re-enhance if it does, use cheap crystals, and previously used to try escaping if they were losing. Going red is not a legitimate playstyle. It's a consequence of what PA considers bad behavior. 

Oh, and to the person who complained that these changes will punish players who would pk players trying to edge in on their grind spots by forcing them to change channels, go to marni, whatever, welcome to literally everyone else's game. That's how the nonpvpers have had to play. 720gs player rolls into blood wolves to grind a pot piece will roll over everyone else, same at cents. 

Griefing is already a problem. It already exists. The solution to overgrinding is honestly to redo how shared mob kills work. 

Bdo wins against other games only with the combat system in the game, that's all. If you kill open world pvp with these changes and encourage grief, you are not helping the development of new people.

The variant with solo hours seems silly to me. Let's change a multiplayer game to solo for what? That you don't know how to supplement the grind spots? You have 100 unusable areas in the game. Buff when?

Please NO 

I dont want to use the -no true scotsman- argument here. You dont want to participate in that part of the game. ..but why should I be restricted just because of what you dont want to do? The rules of the game were pretty damn clear when you started. why should they be changed after 8 years? why have you been here if you diddnt like how the game was played?

My hunch is that you're here because even though you dont like being PvPed out in the world it hardly ever happened to you, so it was ignorable.