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UTC 10 : 9 Jun 14, 2024
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#Suggestions #Community Support
Sorceress Succession Analysis (IMPO™)
Jan 29, 2023, 14:26 (UTC)
1898 22
1 2 3
Last Edit : May 29, 2023, 13:01 (UTC)
# 1

Title: Sorceress Succession Analysis

Family Name: Merlyn

Region: World

-

Here is a skill-by-skill analysis of the current state of succession Sorc skills (InMyPersonalOpinion™). This is with taking into account the current tier of Succession sorceress in pvp and pve:

Movement - B Tier - Cant even chase a shai; Starved for stamina;

Protection - SSS Tier (PVE) / A Tier (PVP) - Has iframes that cost a lot of stamina. Too many frontal guards, and not enough super armor is what holds her back in pvp.

Damage - B Tier - Suffers from smol AoEs in pve. One mistake in skill rotation on a KD-ed (same gear character) results in a fail. Dmg-Wise Should probably be the measure of how to nerf all of the other classes’ damage instead of adding more damage to the game;

Accuracy - F Tier - Violation & Black Wave (Core DPS skills) have 0% accuracy; Minus Evasion and + Accuracy are tied to meh skills;

Evasion - SSS Tier - Just made for that bling;

DP - A Tier - Sure, it works too cus it stacks with the abhorrent free evasion

E Buff - D Tier - Some weird choices were made

CC - A Tier - The ranged catches are imba … but sorc awa has them too..

-

Past this point, just follow the purple for what’s most important.

Urgency

Skill

Problem

QoL Change

Balance Change

Eh Make Booba costumes instead.

Flow of Darkness

Costs Stamina

Skill Tied to +Evasion

Change Cost to Mana

Or

Move to Prime Skill

SA Candidate / Prime:Flow of Darkness 6s CD

SSS Fix it now

Prime: Black Wave

Very telegraphed animation

0% Accuracy Modifier

Add an Accuracy Modifier

Remove 1 Wave, Add damage to last wave explosion

B Important, but we’ll live without it.

Prime: Darkness Released

Frontal Guard is only on Backstep

0 Cancels + feels very clunky to cast after some skills

Create more flowy cancels

Add Frontal guard to W+F too

SSS Fix it now

Prime: Midnight Stinger

Short Range without shards

Credit: GameruRC

Remove shard cost for movement

Credit: GameruRC

SA Candidate

A How did this happen in the first place?

Prime: Rushing Crow

Cooldown is uncoupled from stinger

Credit: GameruRC

Would be nice to pass through objects and players. 

Lower CD to 2s

Credit: GameruRC

SSS Fix it now

Prime: Bloody Calamary

Small AOE on First 2 hits

Recoil on cast

Casting with 'Space' as key input can be wonky and cost us our lives if we hop instead of casting calamary

Long Cooldown to rotate T3 Addons

Change input to Shift+C or Shift+Q

Increase Aoe on Melee Hits

Remove Recoil

If T3 gets added to other prime skills, then this would be fixed. Otherwise, Skill Cooldown needs to be looked at too.

SSS Fix it now

Absolute: Beak Kick

Skill Tied To -Evasion

Move -Evasion to a Prime Skill. This would also serve as a nerf to Awa sorc having double -eva capabilities.

Greedy: Create Prime:Beak Kick (Super Armor) leave -eva as is.

B Important, but we’ll live without it.

Prime: Abyssal Flame

Super Armor is only on charging

Damage is not clear. Full damage with TBS>AF, but not when iframe>AF? Why?

Missing Core cancels for casting  the skill

Add cancels after (at least) Dream of Droom, Bloody Calamity, Dark Backstep or Black Wave.

Credit: GameruRC

Add tooltip for which cancels result in charged damage

Add Super Armor to instacast as well.

simply remove non-charged damage

Eh Make Booba costumes instead.

Pepe The Frog Hands Sticker - Pepe The Frog Hands Sad - Discover & Share  GIFs

Sinister Omen

I don't even

Create Prime: Sinister Omen. Copy Caster ‘Lighthouse’ with (non-magical stackable) +accuracy.

i don't even

Eh Make Booba costumes instead.

Bloody Contract

Great way to get killed in pvp

Create new skill by merging with Sinister Omen but keep Contract Insta-Casting time

Aoe Slow + (Prime) SA Candidate

C? But still, How did this happen in the first place?

Dark Tendrils

Can be aimed with mouse movement, but not with the camera...just why?

Allow for the skill to be aimed with camera movement

A How did this happen in the first place?

Prime: Abyssal Vanguard

12% Acu Great

100% Crit Rate Horrible. We crit anyway.

30% All Resistance Mediocre

35% Ignore All Resistance Mediocre

20% Casting Speed Great

Seems like we're on the bottom end of what we get and % the numbers we get in the E buff balance.

Also, they don't seem to match the concept or other skills of the class.

Change +100% crit rate to +ap or +crit dmg

Change one Mediocre to Evasion

B Important, but we’ll live without it.

Prime: Turn-back Slash

Nothing Wrong, just here as an SA/-evasion candidate

Move -evasion here from beak kick.

SA Candidate

C Do the highest tiers first PA. Don’t use these as an excuse to say “Fixed”.

Absolute: Shadow Kick

Skill Tied to + Accuracy

Can be moved to another Prime skill, but works fine with the cancels currently.

Reboot Shadow Kick with Back Telepot was beautiful, why didn’t we get that?

B Important, but we’ll live without it.

Shard Explosion

No usable cancels

Hard to use with Succ’s starved shard economy

Huge Cooldown

Create Prime:Shard Explosion with usable cancels.

Remove/Lower Shard Cost

Add T3 Addon for Prime Skill

Eh Make Booba costumes instead.

Dark Trade III

(Prime) SA Candidate (Needs to be longer at least half a second to be properly usable)

SSS Fix it now

Prime: Claws of Darkness

Only 5% Casting Speed

No Accuracy Modifier

10 % casting speed pls

Give us some accuracy m’lord, i beg of you.

SSS Fix it now

Imminent Doom

18s Cooldown but no T3 Cooldown

Add T3 Addon to Prime: Imminent Doom

A How did this happen in the first place?

Prime: Crow Flare

Shard recovery was stolen from us

10% casting speed is conditional

Remove casting speed. Add 10% to Claws. 

Other possible candidate to move -evasion from Beak Kick.

Rollback Shard Recovery

SSS Fix it now

Prime: Dark Flame

Long hangy animation along with Ultimate version

Causes Stutters

Speed up Animation / Check performance

FG to SA Candidate

Eh Make Booba costumes instead.

Absolute: Absolute Darkness

SA Candidate (Prime:Absolute Darkness? 6s CD SA canceled during CD but still castable)

Eh Make Booba costumes instead.

Absolute: Sinister Energy

Useless. Compared to Maegu-s Long-range FG skill that does wonders.

Make usable

SA Candidate Prime

 

C Do the other things first!

Prime: Violation

Aoe is almost enough

Direction can be controlled with mouse movement. Make it controllable with key inputs too.

FG to SA Candidate

Increase Aoe

#Added to main article#

Here is a damage breakdown of the main damage skills that sorc wields, as well as the new updates and where those skills will land in power. The list is arranged by DPS (not total damage).

Skill Name

acc

crit

Total Dmg

Cd

Dmg Per CD

Cast Time*

DPS

Measurement Comment

Prime: Black Wave III

0

25

37125

8

4640

2

18562

Prime: Violation

0

25

18039

6

3006

1

18039

Assuming No stutters

*New* Prime Abyssal Flame III

29

50

17032

7

2433

1

17032

*New* Priime: Dream of Doom

29

16184

9

1798

1

16184

*New* Prime: Bloody Calamity

10

100

27727

11

2520

2

13863

Dark Tendrils

8

40

25005

11

2273

2

12502

Can be shortened by timing second attack earlier

Prime: Bloody Calamity

10

100

24106

16

1506

2

12053

Prime: Abyssal Flame III

29

50

11992

7

1713

1

11992

Prime: Dream of Doom IV

29

11560

9

1284

1

11560

All Cast time is from recoil which can be easily canceled with Midnight stinger resulting in a 1s total

Prime: Darkness Released

12

25

10560

6

1760

1

10560

Prime: Claws of Darkness IV

0

15825

5

3165

1.5

10550

* New*Prime: Shadow Eruption IV

23

50

10035

7

1433

1

10035

* New*Succession: Ultimate Shadow Eruption IV

23

25

10035

9

1115

1

10035

*New* Dark Flame + Ultimate

10

100

19092

6

3182

2

9546

Assuming No stutters

Prime: Turn-back Slash

5

100

9511

5

1902

1

9511

Instant in some cases, but setup usually requires 1s (ie. Crow>Beak or Iframe>TBS)

Prime: Dark Flame + Ultimate

10

100

15910

6

2651

2

7955

Assuming No stutters

Prime: Shadow Eruption IV

23

25

6780

7

968

1

6780

Instant in some cases, but setup usually requires 1s (ie. Midnight Stinger or iframe or Abso:Darkness.

Prime: Succession: Ultimate Shadow Eruption IV

23

25

6780

12

565

1

6780

Recorded with OBS @144 FPS Locked / Calculated in Premiere / Trunkated / NoAlch Stone + 5 atsp

So, what does this patch do for our damage?

1. It makes DOD, AF, and Calamary finally deal more damage than Dark Tendrils

2. It props up shadow eruption by ~25%, however, that is 25% of an (already) low-damage skill.

3. Ultimate:Eruption and Flame+Ultimate:Flame which are both mediocre skills (one unprotected, the other with a stuttery animation) that succ sorcs avoid using at end-game pve

What did we get in total in this patch?

We got 4 skill's damage buffed, 2 irrelevant cooldowns adjusted, 2 bug fixes, 2 irrelevant skill cancels. The irrelevant adjustments are definitely not in line with what the entire sorc community is asking. The damage buffs just bring some to "the default" because they dealt less dps than even our Magnus skill {also available for Sorc Awa} while other skills were just adjusted at random.

What are other classes getting?

1. 6-8 Damage Changes Depending on how lucky they are. Those that get 4 though (ie. Succ Hash) are getting many other things adjusted in a positive way, unlike succ sorc.

2. For many, 7-second cd skills have total damage of 20-25k damage (ours have 7-15k even after this "buff")

3. Some classes even got relevant flows and cancels

What do we do now?

Nothing, there are obviously not enough people lobbying for succession sorceress and she's falling further into irrelevancy with every update. If you somehow reached this part of the article, please do me a solid and upvote every single comment in this post so that it achieves more relevancy.

#Added to main article#

-

#Original Text#

Succ Sorc has come a long and tedious way throughout many changes, from Abyssal Flame Spam Queen, to a kid’s wheel frontal guard monkey, to now become maybe the median for a mid-tier balanced class in BDO that can really flourish in the right hands. However, some skills and design decisions have quirks that don't make sense and I offer solutions to them below. Some of these solutions are pure quality of life, while others are {see:greedy} balance changes. I DONT believe that she should get all of the SA candidates, in fact, 1-2 would suffice. Obviously, none of this should trickle into Sorc Awa {as non-Prime skills} as they already have a plethora of survivability tools that succession doesn’t have (including more SAs).. The QoL changes would just make everyone happy and the class less clumsy. 

The TL:DR is that the class suffers from:

  1. Having too many frontal guards (instead of Super Armors {with long telegraphed animations})


  2. Having (de)buffs tied to the most senseless skills in the game


  3. Having quirks that create gaps in rotations either tier to key input/movement/or problems from above
  4. F Tier Chase/movement potential

 

I look forward to having these ideas dissected (by the 20 succ sorc players in the game), new ideas added and maybe some addressed. :)

Disclaimer:

  • AoS has very accented the quirks that this class has in a gear-balanced environment. Apart from all of the sadge desyncs, Succ Sorcs usually get caught by reflexively derping many of the unprotected skills from above which hold our core buffs/debuffs.


  • Not here to discuss balance vs other classes it’s a total mess that ill address in another thread (link coming soon), from class-vs-class % differences, to passives, to invisible iframes vs visible SA movement. I just want my class finished. If you’re getting hammered by Succ Sorcs, you just can’t read the animations to anyone qq-ing, try the class break your wrists and see how easy/smooth it is.


  • I’m not addressing the class damage here whatsoever and the fact that other classes (even Sorc Awa) can do the same damage {that requires us 7 skills imputed in a row} with 1-2 insta-cast skills. That ties into the thread above about the complete class balance of BDO, which needs to be first more transparent and then reworked even at the level of per-class passives (more on that when link comes)


  • I will add (good) ideas to the sheet above and remove bad ones


  • My ideal change would be most QoL changes (the ones that don’t affect balance in any way) and one new SA + one FG changed to SA.


  • Please keep the discussion civil and on the topic of sorceress succession only. No Sorc Awa trauma (That's a different S-Tier Class. Succ is B+-Tier in Pvp). No "My Class is Weak too" (Make a cohesive thread, ill support you). <3 and hugs pls.

 

Last Edit : Feb 1, 2023, 19:24 (UTC)
# 2

Dear Pearl Abyss,

So, this is what PA had to say about Maegu and its design/balancing philosophy in the latest update. Succ Sorc doesn't have backstep defense too. Also has about 50% of the movement capability of maegu and other classes. I wont even start comparing the kit that Maegu has compared to every class in bdo (but especially the unfinished kit of Sorc Suc).

Patch Notes - February 1, 2023
Maegu
Maegu’s ability to confuse opponents with an illusory duplicate is a skill unique to her, and it opens up fresh new possibilities for attacking. Considering that this is a new playstyle that has no backstep defense (S-block), we've balanced the damage deal by each of her skills to counteract this heightened difficulty

Maegu has performed much better than intended in large-scale PvP, such as Node/Conquest Wars. As such, Maegu's PvP attack damage has been balanced following this patch (PvE damage remains the same). Though Maegu's attack damage has been reduced, as she has proven to be too powerful in Node/Conquest Wars due to her wide damage area, the damage distribution has been increased to still deal significant damage in smaller scale battles or 1v1 situations.

As Maegu is a class that can utilize duplicitous doubles and deal wide-range attacks, she really shines in large-scale PvP.
We are planning to gradually update Maegu's skill enhancement, two Prime skills, and Magnus' exclusive skill (Abyssal Legacy) in the coming weeks. Though Maegu's attack damage has been somewhat altered, we will develop her upcoming skills to add further appeal to her character. However, there may be future balances to her skills with the addition of these new ones..

So plz help. The changes needed are minor, fast and easy. Non would affect the damage balance of the game. Half are QoL. The other half would just reward skill.

edits:

Adding Prime: Violation, Sinister Energy, Prime: Dream of Doom, Storming Crow, and Shards of Darkness to the list.

Last Edit : Feb 4, 2023, 17:37 (UTC)
# 3

"Maegu’s ability to confuse opponents with an illusory duplicate is a skill unique to her, and it opens up fresh new possibilities for attacking. Considering that this is a new playstyle that has no backstep defense (S-block), we've balanced the damage deal by each of her skills to counteract this heightened difficulty. "

LOL, they're actually trolling. I played the class for 10minutes and figured out how to go from Velia to Heidal fully protected, outrunning auto-pilot horses. It doesn't need an S block at all, that would literally slow the class down to use... Top-Kek statement by PA...

Lv Private
XxValakxX
Last Edit : Mar 4, 2023, 13:03 (UTC)
# 4

Another update, still forsaken.

Last Edit : Mar 15, 2023, 18:41 (UTC)
# 5

Another Patch, another tumbleweed.

Last Edit : Apr 9, 2023, 10:43 (UTC)
# 6

Another update, another dud.

Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 19:29 (UTC)
# 7

After playing Woosa for a ton these past few days, I've decided to update the title. I thought we were fine, balanced, and fair, but it seems that succ sorc is just a meme punching bag for PA to dunk all of their bad and forgotten ideas upon.

Beyond what I initially wrote, in lieu of playing Fan Sorc (aka Woosa), this is what the class is severely missing:

1. Increasing AOE on core skills by 50-100%.

2. Increasing/Add Accuracy skills where it sucks. It sucks in a lot of places.

3. Core class gimmick (something like woosa space skill) that is spammable constantly.

4. (At least) Another T3 addon skill, or reducing the cooldown of bloody calamari to 7-9 seconds.

5. Revering back iframe + jump chain to the way it was, or adding a shift-space long movement skill alla Woosa/Maegu/Lahn/Drak etc.

6. Adding another dash skill, reducing cd on some.

7. Removing collision from dash skills.

8. Fixing weird animation stutters on Prime:Violation and Prime+Ultimate:Dark flame (I thought this was normal until I saw how Woo&Maegu skills simply flow like butter).

9. Better mana management skills (if you're not running an elixir for mana gain or spamming black wave or mobs die in 1 hit there is no way to manage mana beyond addons and potions - other classes rarely suffer from this).

10. Better shard management - either more shards generated / or less consumed by "Prime: Agent of abyss skills". Currently, cus skills in our main combos leech off all of the shards before the only viable cancel to 'Shard Explosion' comes in the order of a possible combo (namely, Imminent Doom, but it would be nice to have more cancels to this specific skill too).

11. Fix weird gaps in FG/SA (from insta-abyssal, beak kick, forward darkness released)

12. Move good {de}buffs (+/-evasion, accuracy, -dp) from the worst skills (which Sorc Awa shares for some reason) to Prime skills

13. Increase atsp buff from 5 to 10%

This is just 95% QoL stuff that should've been done in the rework. After all of this, rebalancing of her damage should be done to bring her up to speed, although I'd be happy with just this (even though i'd still be making 30% less silver than Woosa).

Last Edit : Apr 30, 2023, 21:21 (UTC)
# 8

and do the same to awk sorc which is the (barely) worse spec in most situations

Last Edit : May 1, 2023, 02:34 (UTC)
# 9


Would like to clarify a few things.

This was Shadow Riot that did the teleport not shadow kick


Shadow riot, when they changed it on global labs had a bug where if you hit with a skill from ranged (example abyssal blow) and did the shadow riot flow you would teleport in place  ( coud also be replicated with dream into shadow riot)

I can only assume pearl abyss did not want to fix the bug

Last Edit : May 1, 2023, 03:02 (UTC)
# 10

They just left Succession Sorceress behind in the dirt. That's what happened. Only will happen more with other classes as times goes on.

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