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UTC 10 : 8 06. Okt 2024
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#Meinung
Sailing QOL Improvements - Based on GM Note from Fri, June 3 2022
03. Jun 2022, 22:12 (UTC)
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Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 03. Jun 2022, 22:12 (UTC)
# 1
[Lowering Barrier-to-Entry and Increasing Income for Great Ocean Content]



You need better ships to enjoy more Great Ocean content; however, we feel that the ships take too long to build.
Caravels and galleasses can be built in a few days with some investment, but the process is very complicated and requires a lot of materials which make them difficult to obtain. Therefore, we plan to improve caravels and galleasses by making them quicker to build. Furthermore, we are thinking of ways to make materials like Verdant Black Stones easier to obtain. 

However, carracks are the ultimate ships that many Adventurers who enjoy Great Ocean content aspire to obtain. So, these will remain the same. Instead, Sunset Black Stones will be changed to take 20 minutes to make so that items can be equipped faster after upgrading the carracks.
We are also aware that the income from hunting Saltwater Crocodiles, which is required to upgrade carrack equipment, is fairly low. We will work as quickly as possible to get this adjusted soon. Also, they will be balanced so that they can be hunted solo.

Pardon the formating above, for some reason I wasn't able to change font colors or add or remove highlights, anyway

Caravels and Galiasses are deffinitly a lot of work for that first step when you're not working off of Rovinia's quests to get that head start, so this is a great improvement. Verdents, and the rare Saps are the two main barriers to entry here that have made me decide to not bother building a second carrak, and for a lot of newer players who don't already have a frigate or sailboat, it deffinitly makes the whole process feel overwelming. 

On a note of Saltwater Crocodiles, another much needed set of changes for this area, however I'd encourage developers to look at income potential from Goldmonts, and Lekrashan Habitats as well, as with recent changes to other grindspots (I say this as someone who uses the Volante, not a Valor) my income potential in either place is now considerably lower than grinding for an equivelant ammount of time at say Tshira ruins, as an example, especially considering travel time, and the fact I'd need to stock up on Rations and Canonballs partway through that grind as well. Changing some of the Guild Items into personal trash loot in these area's might be the easiest fix, adjusting their value accordingly, and maybe giving an option to combine a few to create the guild item, as was done with the general sea monster loot. 

I would also strongly sudgest developers look at the Goldmont Pirate zone more closeley, as I doubt many people of any tier are grinding there, given the income is so low compared to Lekrashan, which is currently the highest paying ocean grind zone, and it has the lowest chance at dropping sea crystals, or ocean claws. Setting up Goldmonts, Lekrashan and Saltwater Crocs to be area's specific to Carraks to grind with comparable rewards would be the ideal situation for everyone, and help emphasize the raw power of BDO's best ships. 

Some smaller QOL changes that I'd reccomend as well:

-Have Guilded claws (Trash loot for Crow Coins) Drop from more sea monsters in Margoria and Vadabin Sea, as a more effective alternative to Bartering
-Create a crafting Recipie for Breezy Crystals so that players can gather and produce them while out at sea with matterials that can be found on islands in the area's close to ocean grind spots

-Allow the Carrak to regenerate HP using Ship Repair Matterial from cargo without needing the captain to let go of the wheel (1% ship HP every 5 seconds, just like if the player or ride along players were fixing their ship at the mast)
-Allow the Carrak to use food items in cargo to restore rations without having to pull from the captains inventory (Ship could start doing this at 20% Rations)

-Allow the Carrak to reload canonballs with Breezy Crystals or Origin of Wind from Cargo

-Change Breezy Crystal to loading 18 Canonballs, Change Origin of wind to load 144 to help justify their cost, and make them more applicable to current ships

-Allow Sailors to regenerate their Stamina if there's Raisin Bread or chowder in Cargo. 

Finally, let's talk Margoria Phantom ship, and Vell: 
Margoria Phantom ship is less a nuisance and more of a buzz kill when sailing, especially when it pops up in the middle of a really good grind at Crocs where you've got a good group of them all lined up and suddenly... your last volley on the group is stopped because you're kicked off the wheel... this happens to me all the time. The Phantom ship should be reworked to be more like an Afuaru spawn, or a Garmoth spawn in dreighan, where killing it offers you a reward, and fighting it offers a different challenge, and it has a higher chance of dropping certain things like Artefacts to make it worth killing... dealing enough damage that it needs to be killed. The stop-start mechanic it forces is something that really ruins the fun of grinding at sea. 

Vell: Vell was initially a boss for ships with player controlled canons to kill, and had far fewer ships visiting it all at once... the mechanics at the time made sense, however now, for carraks and Galiasses and Caravels, it's a boring experience fighting it. Changes need to be made here, either to make it more appealing for carraks to fight, or to make the Guild Galley more relevant in fighting it... perhaps making Guild Galley canons Monsterbane canons and Vell less vulnerable to anything else? Or maybe reworking the entire boss sequence into something that's actually challenging and fun, where you're not battling more with Desync and personal computer limitations when the "Hide Other Adventurers" functiond decides not to work during the fight. I don't know, this last one probably needs more work from someone much smarter than I am. 

Anyway, thank you for reading! Feedback is appreciated

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Jun 2022, 05:11 (UTC)
# 2

Even if you have all of the materials to make frigate or sailboat, the sheer amount of time it takes for the workshop to make it is insane, because they broke up the whole process into one job per ingredient instead of just making it one job like most everything else is. Wagons have the same problem. IMHO, actually making a galleass or caravel is pretty simple beyond that point. Sure, it would be nice if you didn't need so many of each ingredient, so I'm perfectly fine with it being simplified, but the frigate and sailboat situation is worse IMHO. It's just that some folks bypass that by buying one from the CM.

As for sea monster hunting, by far the biggest problem with it IMHO is that it gives almost exclusively guild materials. I couldn't care less about those, and they're useless, because all you can do with them put them in the guild storage rather than sell them or use them for anything. As far as I can tell, the only way to get silver from them is to talk your GM into doing a payout, which is a ridiculous extra step. Maybe guilds that focus on sea content have figured out a way to handle this cleanly, but for anyone else, it's a royal pain. I want the sea monsters to drop stuff stuff that I can actually use or sell, and they should be dropping carrack materials more frequently. As things stand, aside from stuff related to chiro gear or ebenruth's nol, the only benefits from hunting sea monsters when trying to make your carrack are the quest rewards you get when a quest requires it. It's fine with me if it takes a while to get a carrack, but it should be possible to cut down on the time by actively doing stuff like sea monster hunting, and sea monster hunting should actually be profitable rather than simply being for questing or for chiro gear. I've spent many, many hours on sea monster hunting for very little benefit, and it sucks.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Jun 2022, 07:05 (UTC)
# 3

Pseudo changes that won't change anything.

What needs to be done:

- remove sea currents

- greatly increase speed of ships vs wind (I don't feel any speed difference whether I am 110% or 140% speed)

- significantly reduce the consumption of stamina (we are empty after 40 minutes of sailing with acceleration, sailing without acceleration is masochism)

- change ship health regeneration to something similar to using a carrot for a horse (instant regeneration, not 2% for 10 seconds)

- add a better ammo regeneration system (no one will still kill crocodiles if they have to return to the port for ammunition after few mobs kills)

- increasing the profits (trash) from sea monsters, we kill them by shooting them ... with our money

- adding a free compass (sailing does not exist without a compass)

- a significant reduction (10 times) in the weight of barter goods (barter takes too long compared to the profits).

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Jun 2022, 11:56 (UTC)
# 4
On: Jun 4, 2022, 06:54 (UTC), Written by Senemedar

Pseudo changes that won't change anything.

What needs to be done:

- remove sea currents

- greatly increase speed of ships vs wind (I don't feel any speed difference whether I am 110% or 140% speed)

- significantly reduce the consumption of stamina (we are empty after 40 minutes of sailing with acceleration, sailing without acceleration is masochism)

- change ship health regeneration to something similar to using a carrot for a horse (instant regeneration, not 2% for 10 seconds)

- add a better ammo regeneration system (no one will still kill crocodiles if they have to return to the port for ammunition after few mobs kills)

- increasing the profits (trash) from sea monsters, we kill them by shooting them ... with our money

- adding a free compass (sailing does not exist without a compass)

- a significant reduction (10 times) in the weight of barter goods (barter takes too long compared to the profits).

Obvious that you didn't actually read what the OP said.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Jun 2022, 13:19 (UTC)
# 5

I been sailing from when I had to make my first ship and have made many more and sold them but i see the same thing all the time here for people that spend the time making thing you always have people I got to have it right now and never want to put the work into it to get things.

for the people that spend the time working at it how do you think they feel when all they do is make it easyer because it take to long

153 553
Lv 63
Amiee
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 04. Jun 2022, 17:41 (UTC)
# 6

As someone who took to sailing from their first month in BDO BEFORE the Great Expedition, I'd love to see it get easier for people to get into, right now the ocean just feels empty because almost no one is sailing anymore. The Barrier for entry into sailing is much higher than other lifeskills, and it takes most casual / semi-pro players close to 6 months before they start seeing profits from all their effort. Most people give up before getting their Carrak, especially if they don't already have a friend with a Carrak doing Sailing Dailies at Oquilias Eye to help them build up... I should know, I've helped Ten other people get theirs by doing those dailies with them while I grinded Master Sailing. 

On the topic of Ocean Currents, Ration Efficiency, Sea Storm Resistance, and Resilience;
These stats exist in game however have yet to be implemented, and likely won't be put into use until Great Expedition 2 or Haso Expansions come out. Others in the Sailing community have said it's likely they'll be used as part of a Sailor Promotion system similar to workers, but that's just speculation.

As for Senemedar's speed issues, based on the stats you've sent, I'd guess your Turn / Accel. stats are fairly low still. Your Ship speed slows anytime you turn too sharply, especially with abrupt turn if you don't breezy right after, and accel makes a HUGE difference in how fast your ship travels because you gain back speed faster after using certain skills, getting pushed by bad winds or currents, or even comming out of a turn. Sailing doesn't have brackets like horses do either, so a 1% increase in speed is still only a 1% increase. 20% differences are what you notice the most, however some have also speculated that Desync and Frame-Rates also play a factor in ship speed (AKA Computer and Server hardware limitations can impact it) so even if you do have the faster ship, sometimes you'll still seem slower due to desync compared to the person you're racing to an objective. They've been working on fixing these issues for years but haven't implemented them because their dev team has had other priorities. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 06. Jun 2022, 01:11 (UTC)
# 7

I'm fine with them lowering the barrier for entry, as it will increase the amount of people that will realize how bad the content really is, causing them to likely complain. Honestly, they either need to do a complete overhaul of the content or reimburse people for the time and effort that they put into making carracks/+10 blue gear and scrap it altogether so people stop wasting their time. I enjoy sailing in most games and in BDO it's fairly relaxing, but the ROI is terrible with it. I have 1500ish sailing mastery (with no buffs) and a carrack with +10 blue gear and at best I am limited to making 50-200m in a hour? What? All the while also having to keep sailors fed, have enough cannonballs to kill monsters, and taking the time to travel to port and back. I won't go into bartering, as most people already know it is extremely bad in terms of time and silver.

As for PvP, it doesn't really happen unless you come accross some risk-averse red player that will either change servers/channels, have people repairing their ship for them, or both. Addressing both things would be very simple: Add combat/aggression timers (Like in EVE Online) so that the ship remain for a certain amount of time even if the red player logs off. An obvious thing to address passengers repairing red boats would be to make it so that only the red player can repair their ship when they have negative naval fame. Other things that need to be looked into are how overpowered Nol is (which directly affects combat unlike the other treasures), unintended/unexplained "features" such as panning the camera after firing cannons, and everyone's favorite thing in the game: desync. The Nol issue could easily be addressed, camera panning shouldn't be as hard as desync to fix, but I honestly have zero expectations for them to ever fix desync. Desync has been PA's reason (excuse), for not wanting to add more Great Expedition content for the last couple of years.

Recently, they implemented a change that when a player's ship "dies" the sailors do not "die", but this only applies to the Arsha server; This needs to be implemented on all servers for people that are not negative naval fame. Not sure why they even added sailor sickness in the first place.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 06. Jun 2022, 04:52 (UTC)
# 8

Firstly, Hello fellow Capsuleer, I hope EDENCOM hasn't been giving you too much of a hard time recently!

The Sailing Content has deffinitly been neglected since Lekrashan and Elvia were added, however at the time the current system was added (Litterally 3 months before the Pandemic Started) Bartering was actually one of the best moneymaking options for anyone who was below 260 ~ 280 ap, it was before many of the current lifeskilling improvements, and before Elvia completley dissrupted the silver-per-hour calculations everyone did. Even now, Barter can still be decent for newer players if they've got the time to invest in getting into an Advance Carrak... TIME being the key thing there, the whole system is very time-gated and requires some user imput, so it's certainly not for everyone. 

Personally, however, I enjoy the content that's available, but do wish there was more, and I also do wish there was more silver to be earned, and that some of the legacy sailing content was either removed, or brought up to date... many of the issues I, and others have are due to the older "Sea of Thieves" Style of group content the old sailing system forced. The old Epheria Frigate / Sailboat, and the Guild Galley's are completley out-dated now... and while there's an easy solution for the Frigate / Sailboat, by upgrading them into the newer ships, the Galley is mostly useless... and over half the sea monster trash loot is matterials used to build / upgrade the Galley, or build the old gear for the older player ships (As Guild Items). Converting those from Guild Items that only fund your guild to personal items you can vendor, as was done with Young Sea Monsters, and the rest of the Sea Monster Loot would more than double SMH income... of course not counting Guild Missions. 

I also agree, EVE-Esque Combat timers are needed once they've fixed the Desync issues at sea. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 06. Jun 2022, 07:00 (UTC)
# 9
On: Jun 4, 2022, 11:56 (UTC), Written by Noneya

Obvious that you didn't actually read what the OP said.

Obvious you haven't read changes from global lab, because if you read, you would know that there will be no changes that will increase playability of the sea content.

DutchLestral expressed his opinion, and I expressed mine, while all you do is bark like a mad dog.

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