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#Meinung
[PvP Balance] Grabs should not be a near automatic win button (and other CC/protection balance considerations)
26. Okt 2022, 06:24 (UTC)
528 5
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 26. Okt 2022, 06:36 (UTC)
# 1

Title: "Balance Grabs, CCs, protected CCs, protected movement and reduce 1 shot meta"
Family Name: Stregain

Region (NA/EU): NA
Suggestion/Comments:

I made a post a little while back pertaining to the 1 shot meta and the lack of effectiveness of DP at higher levels or relative AP in pvp. There were a lot of good points brought up by members of the community which highlighted that rather than simply scaling up DP to mitigate the over the top damage we are seeing in pvp, perhaps another remedy (maybe in tandem, with damage tuning) would be to tone down and balance the sheer amount of CCs being thrown around in pvp (particularly protected ones) and further adjust the dominance of grabs being a 1 shot win button, even after the recent adjustments to grabs

There was a time when the devs embarked on a general combat rebalancing which aimed to limit protected CC abilities (they could still be available but only a handful at most), unprotected CCs and balance classes on a certain logic. Lets revist and update that idea:

WARNING: THIS IS ENTIRELY HYPOTHETICAL AND BY NO MEANS A CONCLUSIVE LIST: 

1.) Each class/spec can have access to 1 or 2 protected CCs (depending on their class "archetype") ie. Q Block/Tank classes get less protected CCs, Melee brawlers/highly mobile melee get more. Ranged classes get less because of their ranged advantage

2.) Balance the overall availability of protections, mobility and CC available in each kit in a wholistic manner. Ex: If shield classes are to be "tankier", slower frontliners who can avoid a lot of CCs woth their protected block, then they might have access to a couple less CCs but have an advantage in protected damage for trading. More mobile melee/brawlers might have more protected movement more protected/total CCs and a moderate amount of protected damage (all while considering things like availability of spammable protections like sorc iframe etc) Ranged might have less protected CCs, some protected movement and a moderate amount of protected damage.

3.) Grabs should not be a near guaranteed win button. The adjustments were okay but they're still distinctly more powerful than other forms of CC, especially with pvp damage being where it is. Suggestions to tone them down further: shorten the time spent on the ground after a grab, further increase cooldowns across the board, add a grapple break mechanic (perhaps let iframes more reliably break/avoid grapple?), add a DR buffer to avoid being 1 shot after getting grabbed? Etc. 

TL;DR: 1 shot meta bad, maybe culprit is too much CCs, grabs too strong, class kits total available CCs, protected CCs, movement, damage etc out of whack and should follow a more overarching logic to balancing these factors.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 26. Okt 2022, 06:47 (UTC)
# 2

"protected movements"

People who played mystic in 2018 during the protection patch : *anger intensifies*

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 26. Okt 2022, 07:35 (UTC)
# 3

This is going to lead to disastrous results. It really reminds me of that patch from 2018 that took away most protections.

Mobile classes are going to dominate. Mobility creep is going to be a an even bigger problem. There are (maybe) a few classes that are terrible at SA trading. I can name only one so far.

If one gets easily grabbed by another class with ease, that's a personal skill problem. Because no matter how long you're going to increase their CD, there will be always a newbie to put it as lightly as possible that will whine. If grabs are to be for example on a 1 min. CD, I believe that it won't be worth it most of the time to use this said skill type. They would be unreliable. Still even on a 1 min. CD you can expect same results.

I as a warrior once had a musa fighting me at Centaurs. When he attacked me and got in my favourable short range, it was a perfect opportunity for a grab. Because he allowed me a free grab. If he was better skilled, I wouldn't land it easily and I had to be more patient.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 26. Okt 2022, 11:35 (UTC)
# 4
On: Oct 26, 2022, 07:35 (UTC), Written by Krastonosezs

This is going to lead to disastrous results. It really reminds me of that patch from 2018 that took away most protections.

Mobile classes are going to dominate. Mobility creep is going to be a an even bigger problem. There are (maybe) a few classes that are terrible at SA trading. I can name only one so far.

If one gets easily grabbed by another class with ease, that's a personal skill problem. Because no matter how long you're going to increase their CD, there will be always a newbie to put it as lightly as possible that will whine. If grabs are to be for example on a 1 min. CD, I believe that it won't be worth it most of the time to use this said skill type. They would be unreliable. Still even on a 1 min. CD you can expect same results.

I as a warrior once had a musa fighting me at Centaurs. When he attacked me and got in my favourable short range, it was a perfect opportunity for a grab. Because he allowed me a free grab. If he was better skilled, I wouldn't land it easily and I had to be more patient.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 27. Okt 2022, 11:55 (UTC)
# 5

Just make grabs cost 2 cc points. The issue really isn't the grab itself. Its the fact that any cc combo is guaranteed death for most classes. This is fine if that cc was earned by punishing an unprotected enemy. However, such punishment is not earned if you just grab them through protection and you should only be granted a half combo. Grab being 1 cc point as an opener to a 2.5 point cc combo is not fair. In a game where instability means you're getting grabbed even in iframe, its time to make grabs less punishing and integrate them into a more fun way of fighting.

I would go as far as even making the grab cooldown faster if it means trading it for a points cc cost.

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