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Forum

UTC 23 : 31 28. Apr 2024
CEST 1 : 31 29. Apr 2024
PDT 16 : 31 28. Apr 2024
EDT 19 : 31 28. Apr 2024
Gender lock
24. Dez 2022, 21:09 (UTC)
5893 63
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Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 28. Dez 2022, 02:01 (UTC)
# 11
On: Dec 25, 2022, 17:06 (UTC), Written by LtPlush

I prefer to play the male characters in the game because when I'm running around slapping mobs I can relate more to a male character because subconsciously I insert myself into the class I'm playing and when that class is a male I have a more personal mental investment in building up that character. I think that is a more developed and articulate approach to voice my complaint.

I prefer any gender class, as long as I find it fun to play.  When I'm running around slapping mobs, I view my character as a vehicle I control - kind of like a toy, or a car that I drive.  I have a more personal mental investment in building up that character if it's fun and has visually appealing and impactful feeling abilities and animations.

I can give personal opinion as well.

I understand the significance of Gender locking some classes due to the role a class plays in the development of the story arc, and what I was originally getting at is that I think with the current split of male to female characters I just want the developers to consider, where possible, to introduce the male counterparts of SOME classes because at least part of their fan base really care about relating to their characters as they  play through the game.

We already have male to female and vice versa counterparts to classes.  Blader/Plum (Musa/Maewha).  Ninja/Kunoichi.  Mystic/Striker.  Sorc/Sage.  Warrior/Valkyrie.  Witch/Wizard.  Ranger/Archer.  Berzerker/Shai (lul, it's actually Guardian).

This didn't start out as an angry rant about the gender of the classes available, or wasn't supposed to anyway. The intent of the post was to just ask that the team consider the people playing who want to relate on some level to their character in a meaningful way.

Pretty sure they considered it and scrapped the idea in 2016, when they stated they won't do cross-genered classes, but instead, make class-counterparts, like we have today.

And in this case specifically, I was speaking personally for me (and I think some of the player base would agree) just having the male counterpart when applicable to grind through the game. Usually for the 10th time, you know? It's like reading a book, you want to have an emotional investment in the lead protagonist of the story, and for me, as well as SOME others out there, being able to build a strong bond with that protagonist is sometimes difficult in this style of character design if the gender is not one you can relate to.

Almost all classes have a female to male and vice versa counterpart today.  Lahn, DK, Shai, Corsair, Drakania are the ones I can think of that don't, off the top of my head.

Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk on the internet, just voicing an intimate concern because I want to continue loving this game, zipping around some zones, and laying out some mobs. My apologies for emotive comments in the thread. It was not my original intent to invoke that kind of conversation. I just want this point of view considered for the future because I know there are others out there who feel the same way. 

The devs can allocate the significant amount of time, effort, and financial burden in better areas, IMO.  Besides, they stated long ago they won't do cross-gendered classes.  You're literally beating a dead horse at this point.

Also, I gladly blow money on my characters when I get that good bond because I too have no self control once I feel invested with my character and their progression. (Just a joke, but also serious about it happening).

I gladly blow money on classes that; 1) Feel good to play, 2) Have aesthitically pleasing animations, 3) Have a responsive feel, 4) Isn't overwhelmingly over powered or under powered, 5) Look good.  What gets me invested is if the car feels good to drive and if I look good driving it, so to speak.

My responses in blue. 

Also, hello random downvoter who gives no context.  I hope you're loving life, living in a place of cowardice by not providing additional input to the discussion!

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 29. Dez 2022, 11:29 (UTC)
# 12

Korean MMOs do the gender lock for a reason, and that reason is very simple. Despite what you might think, this particular "Feature" has little to do with the sexualized aesthetics of women in korean MMOs which should absolutely not be touched and remain as they are. No, the reasoning is simple, the "classes" in Korean MMOs are not random characters which we make, they are actual personas with their own backstory and lore, they are particular people which you take control over in that world, not self-inserts. For example, the Mystic has her entire story on the wiki if you take a moment to look, including confession of love towards another male martial artist:

"

I sat in the middle of a dense fog, the stench of blood all around me.

My village was utterly destroyed during the war with Calpheon.

I lost everything.

I thought I would die in this desolate place when a foreign-looking stranger came up to me. He said that underneath my calm and peaceful appearance, I had a potential for great power. This stranger would later become my teacher and master, and source of new purpose in life.

Master said that he could help me grow into my potential, and I should go with him to the Far East. I had nothing left for me at home. I left behind my desolate hometown and followed Master to a foreign land and a new beginning.

However, this new life was not an easy one.

The people in the East were wary of me, a golden-haired and blue-eyed foreigner. Master was the only one who would willingly talk to me, and all he did was drill me in tedious martial arts moves. As I grew stronger and mastered the martial arts the locals started to become jealous of me.

I felt even more isolated.

One day, Master brought a young man, someone who was golden-haired and blue-eyed just like me.

I never imagined that I would see someone who looked like me, so far away from home. I was surprised and curious about this familiar-looking man from my homeland and soon my head was filled with thoughts of him.

Soon he became my everything.

However, before I could tell him how I felt, he left. After he defeated the Martial God, he joined the Western Frontiers and eventually left for the west without a word to me.

When he was gone, I felt more lonesome than ever. I found myself constantly looking out towards the sea, missing him. Plagued with the thought of never seeing him again, I made the decision to also head west. I left a note for Master and began my journey back home.

Home, to the place of sad memories.

However, I was also going on a journey to be reunited with him.[1] "


Every single class in BDO (and in Lost Ark which does the exact same thing) has a particular background in the world and a story, this is why they are either male or female without the ability to change the gender. It's an unique take which western MMOs don't do, and I believe it should stay this way.

The male characters should simply be introduced like the female ones, with their own backstories, but no removal of the gender lock which will simply make no sense for the most part in the lore and setting of the game.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 29. Dez 2022, 18:49 (UTC)
# 13
On: Dec 29, 2022, 11:20 (UTC), Written by Vasoka

The male characters should simply be introduced like the female ones, with their own backstories, but no removal of the gender lock which will simply make no sense for the most part in the lore and setting of the game.

Here are words from the developers about gender-swapping classes back in 2016:

"It is hard to give a concrete answer to this matter because we are always trying our best to create a truly fun and innovative character, rather than copying an existing one, with a sex change. Creating the same class, but a different gender, takes almost the same amount of resources as creating a completely new class. This has changed the overall direction of class development towards creating new classes, which will provide an entirely new experience for players. Currently, there is no plan to create a male version of Ranger, Sorcerer and Tamer. We might however provide a counterpart that offers a similar look and feel such as Valkyrie vs. Warrior with slight adjustments to fit its nature."

https://www.mmorpg.com/news/more-races-planned-gender-lock-to-remain-2000089124

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 30. Dez 2022, 05:53 (UTC)
# 14

Don't get me wrong, I've only read the main thing you wrote and then skipped most of the conversation for this thread as I already knew there will be booba lovers attacking you in this thread with the usual "booba sells".

I just wanted to say that I agree completely with your statement of adding more new male classes in this game as there is a serious lack of male characters, 9males/17 females. Last classes were 3 females in a row (4 with the next one). They could have at least made Maegu be Woosa's brother since people were already suspecting that the other twin class would be a male since in their culture males had long hair and were handsome (dev's words during calpheon ball not mine).
Also I wouldn't be surprised at all if next classes will be females only ,the game has been converted for booba people only = ).
If you say we need male classes  anywhere they'll tell you "booba sells better" disregarding your point.
Heck even I, as bored as I am I tagged a woosa and play her instead of my sage even tho I enjoy playing male classes more. But what can you do if you don't get a choice and you like the game ? I guess second best option is quit and play something else, it's not worth the hassle.

Anyways I will not be checking this thread anymore after saying what I said because I know someone will respond confirming everything I've said above so no point.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 05. Jan 2023, 19:35 (UTC)
# 15
On: Dec 30, 2022, 05:44 (UTC), Written by HazelNut

Don't get me wrong, I've only read the main thing you wrote and then skipped most of the conversation for this thread as I already knew there will be booba lovers attacking you in this thread with the usual "booba sells".

I just wanted to say that I agree completely with your statement of adding more new male classes in this game as there is a serious lack of male characters, 9males/17 females. Last classes were 3 females in a row (4 with the next one). They could have at least made Maegu be Woosa's brother since people were already suspecting that the other twin class would be a male since in their culture males had long hair and were handsome (dev's words during calpheon ball not mine).
Also I wouldn't be surprised at all if next classes will be females only ,the game has been converted for booba people only = ).
If you say we need male classes  anywhere they'll tell you "booba sells better" disregarding your point.
Heck even I, as bored as I am I tagged a woosa and play her instead of my sage even tho I enjoy playing male classes more. But what can you do if you don't get a choice and you like the game ? I guess second best option is quit and play something else, it's not worth the hassle.

Anyways I will not be checking this thread anymore after saying what I said because I know someone will respond confirming everything I've said above so no point.

This thread is not about adding more male classes.  This one is about removing gender lock.

You admitted that reading is hard for you, so hopefully this helps you out.

The main arguments against removing gender lock stated here are:

1)  Game lore reasons.

2)  Developer intention (with an included developer quote).

3)  Difficulty / financial burden / time burden associated with removing gender lock (resources that could be used in other areas).

4)  Developers decided to make "class counterparts" instead of gender reskins.

5)  The negative effect removing gender lock would have in PvP.

6)  Gender locking in Asian MMO's aren't something new.

7)  And yes, sex sells (also not something new to marketing in general).

If the only thing you can think of is "mUh BoObA LuVeRs" you're missing the point, lacking in concrete objectivity, and is actually you doing the attacking here.  And avoiding any sort of discussion to insert this illsighted take on the realities surrounding this issue speaks volumes about it.

Facts > Your feelings, bruh.  Get wrecked by logic.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 06. Jan 2023, 17:05 (UTC)
# 16
On: Dec 26, 2022, 15:13 (UTC), Written by Graugus

These boob/ thigh thirsty mofos going to down vote your post into oblivion. I'm with you in mind on this but these Korean developers not going to change. Every game coming out that country is of the same mindset and push the fox tale but plug agenda because they know 95% of their male population drools over anime boobs.

It's a selling point for their games and will never change. As I said before, these Korean companies about to have some competition here soon and there will be "True" fantasy immersive games with non-gender lock, Dwarves, Orcs, and better group balance set ups for PvE and PvP, so hold onto your hopes and money because BDO will never change.



You probably never heard of NCsoft. Also a South Korean company, but they came with a game back in 2008 with no genderlock. That game is called Aion. The only exception in that game is then the muse but all other classes have both genders. So not every SK company does that. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 09. Jan 2023, 04:28 (UTC)
# 17

Most of the time the reason for gender locks, are due to the nature of 3D mesh and geometry.   If you ever explored the mathematics behind the world of 3D gaming, you will find most of the decision to lock gender is the cost of making poorly defined 3D humans.  There are a few methods used to create the models you see in all video games.

Morphing a Generic Template 

The designer makes a neutral sex 3D mesh neither male nor female. When the user chooses the sex, the client sculpts the verticies into that preformed shape and texture is added.  Then the typical editor is like Black Desert, where limited aspects can be altered by the user.  The drawback is everyones characters look like they fell out of the same family tree.

Assembling the Model from Parts

Instead of a solid mesh, they slap bits and peices together.  The library of meshes would have both male and female body parts. There would be a list of arms, legs, chest, pelvis, and heads.  The problem with this method is clipping.  Normally clipping is where you can see skin poking through your clothes, but on assembled mesh you can see seams in the skin and they look even more doll like.  

Locking Models

The best looking models are locked from the start. However you don't get any choice how they appear, other than a costume or color.  The 2D artists draw up what the character should look like and hands it off to the 3D artist to make for the game.  The end result is a very detailed model that looks good and moves naturally.  This kind of method is mostly used in single player games for the protagonist.

If Pearl Abyss was first and foremost about selling sex, they wouldn't stop at selling you underwear.  They would sell you no underwear as well.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 09. Jan 2023, 13:48 (UTC)
# 18

There are multiple classes i would be playing if this game didnt have genderlock. And multiple costumes i would pay for. 
Wanted genderlock removed for years but it doesnt seem like its ever going to happen so guess ill just live with it and enjoy the game abit less than i could have ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 10. Jan 2023, 03:15 (UTC)
# 19

to be honest I'm a bit disappointed with regards to this, I want to play as a male Shai but I can't even though they exist in the story.. 😞

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 10. Jan 2023, 04:47 (UTC)
# 20

No thanks, each class has its identity, its own background. Removing gender lock would kill the uniqueness of every class.

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