The last proposal is just a weaker and less effective system than private instances.  It is important to understand one thing Pearl Abyss can never tell you.  I heard a very good youtube discussion on this topic.  Their example was another game, but all the fundamental issues applied.

Any public relations from the company has to put things in a positive context.  Even if they know there are major faults.  Thus even though Pearl Abyss is aware their game engine can't support larger grind spots they can't tell you it's defective.  However, it's been proven already.  Mobs where even removed due to performance issues it caused especially on consoles.  So respawn timers where increased instead.

This means Pearl Abyss can not simply solve this by making areas support 20 players.  Thus you have petty bickering or spots across the game.  This is further compounded by bad balancing making most areas not viable for long term grinding.  Thus everyone is packed into a few viable spots.  When taken large portions of the player base being in specific gear score ranges things just get worse.  Then if you run events it's more problematic.

Private instances are the only viable solution that has ever been proposed to correct for the defects in the game engine and lack of proper balancing.

Yeah, "discussions" about Karma often times do end up becoming dumpster fires.  As much as you try to remain objective, neutral, honest, and considerate, there are people who will try to discredit that, throw personal insults, invalidate, or just straight up lie.  There's some evidence of that here already!  But I have been always in agreeance with the devs' acknowledgement that Karma can be abused.  Just trying to do my part.

Glad you like the name lol :) I think it's similar to Prise's suggestion when I asked how they'd solve the issue.  It was a thread I made a long time ago.  After thought, though, I find it merely a temporay solution.  More "permanent" solutions, I feel, are better.  Just trying to figure out the best one

(Ignoring the tangents and side topics you bring up.  Hoping to not derail this thread.)

While private instances would eliminate griefing -- What else it eliminates are fundamental to how Black Desert Online is played by developer vision.

That is BDO's "main content", which, the devs stated is "Players fighting monsters in the open world alongside others".  Private instances removes so much, that I think what it sacrifices is way, way too much to even consider.  It sacrifices BDO's MMO feel, since players will be in their own instance.  It sacrifices meaningful player interaction (not all grind spot disputes ends up in PVP or griefing, many are diplomatic).  It sacrifices so, so much more things I'm missing, I'm sure.  So while, obviously, if players don't even see others, of course they can't grief others (because there's no one around!), it -- to me -- is such an ignorant "solution" becuase it 100% turns BDO into an entirely different style of game.

We need meaningful interactions.  We need BDO's main content to remain it's main content.  But what we also need are ways to minimize griefing, specifically, Karma System abuse.  It's not easy, obviously, so thanks for coming up with something, but Private Instances are not the answer for BDO for reasons stated above, and, likely, other reasons as well.

That is still more propaganda that does not address or fix any of the real issues.

Lets take the "not vision of the game" to it's logical conclusion and see if it falls apart.  The developers ran into an issue on Olivia with players returning and harassing brand new players.  Lets look at what happened.

Pearl Abyss removed PVP from the entire channel.

Well in a single example the notion has already fallen apart.  The "original vision" was Shadow Arena.  A dangerous world where you could be attacked anywhere and delivering trade goods was a risky thing.  Not only has the "original vision" been destroyed by removing that PVP, but the entire concept of horse back delivery and destroying their trade items was dropped.  A "New Vision" of story lines is the current "vision".

Private Instances would "ruin the vision" right?  Except they ARE in the game.  And do you know what a negative impacts it's had?  Do you know how hard it's been for me?  Absolutely none.  Not a single person has been complaining.  In fact it's just made it a lot easier for many.  So because it's only 1h it didn't "ruin the vision"?

BDO doesn't play like other open world games.  The FACT is it's much worse and always has been.  There is very little value to seeing other players around your grind rotation.  The response in BDO to seeing a white dot anywhere near you is "uggggghh". 

You and many others have created a hostile environment in game.  You are one of those people that makes it such an awful experience for many people.  No one cares about two people consenting to PVP over a spot.  The toxic environment you help create is this attitude that EVERYONE needs to conform to it.  The OVERWHELMING majority of people that ask DFS to me over the years have always tried to mob feed and show absolutely no respect. 

They got used to bullying others and immediately abuse the games mechanics to try to get what they want.  ONLY on rare occasions has does a DFS end with them just changing the channel or leaving.  It's happened, but very infrequent.  Thus my game experience is turned to toxic trash because of so many people like you.

Constantly harassing.  Using the same cheap tactics.  Logging into zerkers to chain grab.  Abusing the fact they can't be attacked until they already CC'd.  It's disgusting.  People like you completely RUIN MY GAME EXPERIENCE.  You make it a miserable place to be.

Now you want to take away the best tools for the community to stop that behavior.  For some false "vision of the game" narrative.

What you and these other people have done to the game is disgusting enough already.  No one should be encouraging putting in mechanics to exploit the game in this manner.

Meanwhile every time someone points out they WANT to PLAY THE GAME, but can't tolerate the harrassment they get you want to tell them the game isn't for them.  You don't want to FIX the problem.  You don't want a working karma system which would be much stronger than this one.  You don't want to remove positive karma for free kills.  You don't want more PVP servers.  You just want to keep their ruining the game for others for your own selfish interest.  Pearl Abyss even gave people like you their own server, but you don't want that.  We all know what these people want.  To FORCE DFS on everyone on every server.  To FORCE PK on everyone on every server.

If you followed the fake "vision of the game" you would be playing on Arsha.  Pearl Abyss did NOT put PKING on Seasons because they didn't want to RUIN the game experience for new players entering the game.  They deemed their PVP interactions as UNWANTED, HARMFUL.  Otherwise they wouldn't have removed it.

But that does NOT change by going into Normal Servers.  It's still UNWANTED and HARMFUL.  There is no real difference between the environment for a Season player vs Normal.  It's actually MORE FAIR to PVP on Seasons.  Where people don't have years of advantage.

By saying "shame for them, they MIGHT have problems" (they run the risk of this specific scenario happening.  To me, it's a reasonable situation...), it's not fine. You even find that "reasonable" based on your own judgement!

No "imposing" that players should be in guilds.  "Encouraged" is a better word.

With this situation, no, "Encouraged" is not the adapted word there. They would suffer a negative situation that you wanna create for them.

Just leave them alone...

While they can be Vendetta'ed, they simply swap channels...

That's the thing: they can still be abused vendetted. Why would they "have to" swap channels? Your proposition bothers them and definitely brings nothing positive.

Anyway, I'm not gonna quote you all back and answer to everything, seriously you play with words sometimes, like about quoting what devs said, you said bunch of things for nothing, going circle. Sorry dude but it's gibberish and I'm bored of this senseless conversation. You really talk for nothing about 3/4 of your lines.

So stay focused on your primary idea. If it's fine, lots of people will applause it. (Which hasn't happened yet so maybe there's a reason and you should think about it).

If it's not, it will disappear in the void like all others unpopular ideas.

I let you have a debate as long as you want with JackBelling who seems to enjoy jibber jabber too.

This thread has become less and less interesting.

I'm out of the picture.

This.

You're making assumptions and give a really personal interpretation of what BDO is, which ends up with many misconceptions on your side

BDO is a game with owpvp. Players are free to come here, but they have to accept its features, if they aren't the reasons why they choose the game to begin with.

Players are not dumb, they choose the game they want. You may be blinded by the vocal minorities here, but don't forget all the players having fun and ignoring the forum. 

In short, what you call a "hostile environment" is nothing more than a basic principle in BDO, pk is one of the solutions we can use if we see it fit, and players are aware of it. 

The problem only comes from your perception. You're not on the right game if you feel so oppressed.

You may call it "propaganda", but devs words are far more valuable than yours in this matter. You're not fooling anyone.

Now, could you stop derailing the topics with your false accusations against players and your denials of devs words? Thanks. 

Your low effort responses are not very entertaining nor informative.

"Players are free to come here, but they have to accept its features,"

Is that what happened to the players on Olivia.  Did Pearl Abyss just tell them "death with it" "this is what you signed up for".  Obviously Pearl Abyss removed PKing on Olivia to ensure a better game experience for them.

So why are you peddling this useless garbage?  It's not even close to factually correct.

No wonder Prise doesn't even want to bother speaking to you.  It is a waste of time.  I focus more on informing the community of just how bad your ideas are ;)

Yep, it was a stupid idea to group real newcomers and bored veterans on a single channel. 

So they tweaked rules. 

That's exactly what should happen on a game with regulated owpvp, that's exactly what we're saying for a long time now, and only by falsely labeling BDO as a pvp game, you can hope to make a point with this argument.

If you have to blatantly lie about the game or deny devs own words, you can guess that your argumentation will fall flat.

If you want to go even further in this idea, it was a good idea to remove exp loss on death, it was a good idea to create Marni time to guarantee a progress for any player (and devs also said that they don't plan to give more Marni time, to protect their vision of the game).

I mean, tweaking rules to guarantee the existence of owpvp, its control, and the progress of their players, all at the same time, yes, that's pvpve. As we're saying for a looooooong time.

But don't forget : which kind of game experience will players have in the end on most unrestricted (keyword here) channels?

Ah yes... A game with regulated owpvp. As devs mentioned, that's their vision. 

See, it's not so hard to be honest and attempt a discussion.  There are still a few problems though.  People like to give Pearl Abyss credit for things they don't deserve.

Pearl Abyss is objectively absolutely terrible at MMO design.  In that aspect of the game they are the worst in the industry.  Their ideas are inferior to everyone else and they can't be trusted to do anything right.

That's not so much an opinion, but all based on concrete facts, knowledge, and core design.  They are not the authorities just because they created the game.  Objective facts and core game design concepts supercede them.

Here is a recent real example.  I loaded into an alt to farm.  The channel was occupied so I loaded into another channel.  Taken again so I loaded into another channel.  Also taken.  So I loaded in main and the spot was taken so I loaded another channel and grinded not even that long just enough to do a daily.

I mean look at this Objective TRASH from Pearl Abyss.  You know how many times I load into a properly designed MMO?  ONE TIME.  This wasn't due to PVP.  It's pure garbage design for an MMO.  A game that can't even sustain a small player base.  It's objectively faulty design.

It reminded me of the old enchanting of loading the game 50 times to enchant.  Game design for a completely incompetent group of people.  Sure they fixed that years later, but GOOD DEVELOPERS don't put garbage like in their product to begin with.

One of the reasons for all the loading is absolutely garbage balancing and broken income in specific regions.  A sign of TERRIBLE developers doing lazy and poor quality work.  Resulting in a very poor customer experience and a low quality product.  These types of defects are NOT common in the industry.  This is garbage being created specifically by Pearl Abyss.

Guess what PKing those players or Karma Bombing them IS NOT THE ANSWER to this GARBAGE GAME DESIGN either.