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UTC 5 : 3 19. Mai 2024
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#Meinung #Darstellungselemente
[Concept] Class Passives need a Redesign
11. Mrz 2023, 01:28 (UTC)
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Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 14. Apr 2023, 07:33 (UTC)
# 21

problem is their original design. they gave some class speed passive and made that char slower in start by design.

so if that class doesnt take speed they would be super slow. while some class that has some silly passive now would take speed and be overcharged.

if they gave everyone stame stats on start and then added passive choices that would be different.. they shoudl also buff classes base skillspeeds that are "designed with their speed passives in mind"

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 14. Apr 2023, 07:42 (UTC)
# 22
On: Apr 14, 2023, 07:32 (UTC), Written by WhySoSeeryus

problem is their original design. they gave some class speed passive and made that char slower in start by design.

so if that class doesnt take speed they would be super slow. while some class that has some silly passive now would take speed and be overcharged.

if they gave everyone stame stats on start and then added passive choices that would be different.. they shoudl also buff classes base skillspeeds that are "designed with their speed passives in mind"

Thats not how it works. They did not made classes slower just cause they have attack speed passive, just as they did not made striker less tanky just cause he have 20 more DR and 10% eva passive. Passives simply gives extra bonuses to classes without tradeoffs.

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Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 14. Apr 2023, 16:13 (UTC)
# 23
On: Apr 14, 2023, 07:42 (UTC), Written by CatDK

Thats not how it works. They did not made classes slower just cause they have attack speed passive, just as they did not made striker less tanky just cause he have 20 more DR and 10% eva passive. Passives simply gives extra bonuses to classes without tradeoffs.

u can beleive that but some classes have passives just for show basically. 

problem is some have really GOOD ones and not for eye candy.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 16. Apr 2023, 01:58 (UTC)
# 24
On: Apr 14, 2023, 07:42 (UTC), Written by CatDK

Thats not how it works. They did not made classes slower just cause they have attack speed passive, just as they did not made striker less tanky just cause he have 20 more DR and 10% eva passive. Passives simply gives extra bonuses to classes without tradeoffs.

Lmao yep, what Whyso said above - some classes absolutely do have false passives that look great on paper, until you realise how ridiculous the class would be without it.

So just as an example, despite how readable and punishable a Succ Sage is in 1v1 against someone decent in pvp, did you know the Sage in that scenario is boosted with a passive cast speed bonus of +10% and is very likely to have max overdrive stacks for another +10% cast speed? 

The sage in that scenario is running at +20% cast speed, and thats not counting crystals, skill add-ons or alchemy stone. He could be stacking anywhere between +30% and +40% cast speed. On paper, that's on par with a 200% BSR speed boost, of +40% cast speed. And yet, not counting his two fast cast skills, he's still the slowest attacker in the game. 

The class is supposed to be slow by design - so why give it a +10% speed passive? That's in direct contrast with this intended design and provides false value when you open the skill screen. There's probably other examples, this is just one I've got experience with. 

And in regards to OPs suggestions, I'm absolutely on board with further personalising of classes and build diversity and some really good ideas here. 

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Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 17. Apr 2023, 00:06 (UTC)
# 25

You can also add third passives to this choice tbh, I don't see why some classes should get +20AP, 30% grab ignore or 10% attack speed and others basically nothing.

They could also add other ignore resistances at the same time and nerf them to 10%.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 17. Apr 2023, 04:51 (UTC)
# 26
On: Apr 17, 2023, 00:06 (UTC), Written by askore

You can also add third passives to this choice tbh, I don't see why some classes should get +20AP, 30% grab ignore or 10% attack speed and others basically nothing.

They could also add other ignore resistances at the same time and nerf them to 10%.

Wdym by third passives choice? In both options you can choose any number of passives - but the idea is that there are some diminishing returns because there are higher/different gains at 5-10-15-20 points.

10% of anything would be overkill in passives gain tbh, but yes, ignore resistances have already been discussed and noted in the OP.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 17. Apr 2023, 12:50 (UTC)
# 27
On: Apr 17, 2023, 04:51 (UTC), Written by Zoroaster

Wdym by third passives choice? In both options you can choose any number of passives - but the idea is that there are some diminishing returns because there are higher/different gains at 5-10-15-20 points.

10% of anything would be overkill in passives gain tbh, but yes, ignore resistances have already been discussed and noted in the OP.

I mean the third passive classes have. For example sorc has Dark Bound for +5AP, warrior has +10% attack speed and +30% Ignore grab resist, wizard witch and sage have +20AP, zerker has HP and ignore grab res etc.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 17. Apr 2023, 13:54 (UTC)
# 28
On: Apr 17, 2023, 12:50 (UTC), Written by askore

I mean the third passive classes have. For example sorc has Dark Bound for +5AP, warrior has +10% attack speed and +30% Ignore grab resist, wizard witch and sage have +20AP, zerker has HP and ignore grab res etc.

witch and wizard ap "passive" is negated and then some by our idiotic and moronic class vs class modifiers. its basically as inuslt to the injury.

i honestly dont know who designed this and thought it was a good idea.

class selection screen says 5/5 damage, we get ap passive on top, and then our damage output gets neutered to retardation via arbitrary class modifiers for whatever sadistic reason devs seem to have against this immobile school bus of a class. and on top of that, most classes deal more damage to us, because you know, LOGIC.

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Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 25. Apr 2023, 13:57 (UTC)
# 30
On: Apr 17, 2023, 12:50 (UTC), Written by askore

I mean the third passive classes have. For example sorc has Dark Bound for +5AP, warrior has +10% attack speed and +30% Ignore grab resist, wizard witch and sage have +20AP, zerker has HP and ignore grab res etc.

Oh, i did comment on those. Tbh, they are a tricky snakeoil because in reality they are just there to bring (most) classes to their default, and the problem arises with classes whose default is already good and those just add insane gains (such as is the case with resists and most other percentage gains in the game).

I would either add them as you say, but would rather they are just baked into the classes that need them to be good at default, and remove/nerf some of the stats on other classes which gain OP ones.

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