I forgot to say caps exist. Ash forest is soft capped at 530(70% per ap after), also quint is 920(5% per ap) also not for new players an doesnt give anything different to normal elvia zones. These places need more accuracy than ap. Your behind in times. Every place has a cap making "gear" not as much of a factor since they exist so new players can catch up hence why green offhands are so broken for pve. Stop trying to make out ( sheet )gear is begin and end all(accuracy and monster ap and monster types ap). Every single place has a softcap making the effectiveness of ap really bad.

If a new player saw this they would think you need be a ap monkey at some of these places wouldnt work,  getting one shot plus not enough accuracy aint going to work well. Accuracy and ap matter. Bdo is a grinder mmo(kr mmo). You hate everything about the game an still come to forums an abuse it when its obviously not your type of game. You hate grinding, you hate infinite progression(to a point) you dont like the fact lifeskills are lower money an PA always buff to balance it over time(except alchemy) , you hate open world pvp (try bringing other players into your % figures). Why are you here? You said you would quit an go to new world an came back why?

Interesting topic, although everyone is just chirping in their own bubbles and not really trying to find a middle ground. Also, don't see why it's getting so many eyes and traction, but let's chirp too.

Imo, both OP (+op defenders) and "BDO is fine" camps are talking about different things that actually can align and are not mutually exclusive. What both sides are failing to agree upon in the first place to set up a conversation is what the nature of progression and gains is in BDO. I won't speculate for each side, but IMO, bdo's economy consists of two very simple variables: A)The Silver Grinders - Whose purpose is to print money out of thin air {aka grinding mobs' trashloot} and B)The Workers - Whose purpose is to bring items to the game {sometimes aligning with grinding}, but more directly aligning with life skills and enchanting. Gains can be made by both of these systems, however, progression {in reality} is only done by the Workers system, while the other (Grinding Trash) is there to create an artificial currency value for your time invested, as well as to print currency for trading in the game.

There are several different -and conflicting- topics in this single thread, namely The Value of Time Invested (compared to the difficulty of the content), The Transparency of Required Stats for zones and The Effort required to be able to interact with some {or all} content in the game.

What I think the OP is trying to focus on is a combination of how much our time invested is being appreciated in relation to the 3 above. Where the middle ground on both sides lies is:

- The slow but sure elimination of every single RNG drop item that defines your time invested and divesting those into Pity pieces or other crafting methods that allow you to see your progress hour-by-hour. Everyone would rather have a (1-2hr) quest in Ash forest to get a 100% debo, instead of having the rng chance to get from 0-10 debos. I believe the same would apply with tungrads and all other rare items. The fact of the matter is, it is these items that are the "Workers" part of the economy, and it is these items that bring true progression to players. One major symptom of this problem is the phenomena of more and more players grinding the "Trashloot best" spots, because gains are all-but-guaranteed in a steady rate there, as opposed to spots that have too much variety based on RNG.

- Review of all spot stat requirements and more robust stat detail comparison (Accuracy, Eva, Monster Dmg Reduction, Buffs) that can be baked into the Monster Zone Info UI.

- Review all spot Trash-per-hour and balance according to gear requirement coefficient. For example, in the infamous cases of Ash and Crypt, I bet everyone would rather the accessories being worth as much as a disto, while the trash-per-hour gains are equal to quint/hexe, then the current state of the game. You can create a baseline from something like the ultra-popular Centaurs and adjust (per stats required) from there.

TL:DR - There is no TL:DR, you gotta read if you wanna know.

Anyway, This thread is multiple threads. Should be separated into actionable Feedback suggestions and moved to another (General Discussion>General Gameplay) part of the forum since it doesn't give any productive solutions.

You guys can't understand that in this game there is only a grind and making max gear is unattainable, choice made max gear because he plays after 10 hours a day without a break and makes money from it. People have been playing BDO since the beginning and still have no max gear.
Items are expensive and all the time add new ones like labreska and another expense for which you have to grind for years, soon come shoes, gloves fallen god or something like that and gear you can not do. At the current time, to make gear you need to grind every day without a break for 6 hours minimum. You don’t understand that there is content in the game, there are missions, there are life skills, you can’t waste your time on pvp and other things.
700gs+ is not max gear, max gear is max gear, max gear is all items upgraded to max.

Max gear is virtually un-atainable as per your description, as that would mean PEN Fallen God armors and full PEN Deborekas, and I assure you, if there's even 5 people with that, it's a lot, and they P2W the heck out of it.

My view of max gear is right b4 deboreka and PEN Fallen god. I see it as (with current available suff), TET Fallen god, PEN C20 boss armor if there's no fallen god variant, PEN BS main and awakening and C20 Kutum for weapons (even though, green weapon is now better offhand due to crystal rework, so just get that nowadays, and save yourself over a hundred billions), and PEN accessories (Ogre/laytenn for neck, Crescent/Eye of Ruin/Tungrad, Tungrad/Valtarra/Basilisk) and TET distos (you can go for PEN distos, but, you'll already be 309+ AP and 401+ DP for sure), all with elvia cups.

I have played since 2018 and I do grind a LOT, but I do have a life so, some days, I have not grinded, other days, I play 1-2 hours, some days I go full no life and grind 8+ hours, it depends...but have not made it to what I consider "max gear", but am close, only need +1 PEN ring and the PEN belt, and then just focus on buying crons to brute force Fallen god into TET. But even without getting that goal, I can do pretty much any content in the game, and I play one of the weakest classes in the game, Awakening Wizard (succession wizard is strong, but I don't like getting carpel tunnel on my hands, so I play weak awakening wizard).

Mind you, apart from Crypt (which even I am afraid to go into), even at lower gear, you can pretty much do everything. The "recommended" gear on a zone doesn't mean you need exactly that.

Now, is the game a massive grind? Yes, it's a Korean MMO, it's what it's meant to be, but even among Korean MMOs this game's grind is excessive, but it is what it is, and if you're looking for a game to throw some time at instead of watching paint dry if you got nothing better to play, this is the game for you, if not...well, I'd try another MMO unfortunately.. Forgetting PvP completely, there's A LOT of PvE to do in the game, most of it are grind zones, but with soo much variety, you can always just switch every now and then to not get burnt out, or just lifeskill or do literally any other of the many activities the game has, be it lifeskill, questing, knowledge hunting (will involve talking to NPCs, not just R spamming, sorry) or heck, try capped PvP like NW tier 1 and stuff. I have not been on the forums for a long time, but I'm starting to feel like most people fall into the pitfall of comparing themselves to the streamers whose part time or full time job is playing this game, and to the hardcore PvPers that optimize the fun out of the game to get gear as fast as they do and grind like mad as well.

I will never understand the rush soo many people feel to get to the "end" of a game or it's content, or max gear...I mean, after that, what are you gonna do? Complain there's no content, and quit the game. It's about the journey, not the destination,  just rushing and trying to speedrun to the end is one guaranteed way to either burn yourself out, or burn through games real fast and never really enjoy them to their fullest, which is one heck of a waste of money.

I don't care that I'm playing since 2018 and still not what i'd consider "max gear", even though a lot of people that started much later already got it. I'll go at my own speed, enjoy the game, do what I want and find fun, not what is "optimal". All in all, ENJOY THE GAME, STOP RUSHING TO THE FINISH LINE!!! This is one of those games there isn't supposed to be a finish line, and the further you go, the less real reason there is as you're putting a lot of effort in for little gains, so don't worry about the gear so much.

Sometimes too tired to play, or too busy, maybe didn't sleep too good, or maybe completely spent from work? Do cooking delivery, get some daily rewards, and go offline, at least made a few millions I guess, takes 10-15 minutes, if you don't have 10-15 minutes...I'd reconsider your life choices and job.

P.S - Again, I apologize if I sound rude, it's just, it can get a bit annoying seeing people rush to the end and wondering why they're getting burnt out, instead of taking it at their own pace and actually enjoying the game, cause nobody really cares about gear except very tryhard people or PvPers (cause you're literally directly competing with other players, so obviously here people will care for your gear, and eve then, only if you're not going for capped fights, which nowadays, is almost all PvP). Heck I'll grind or do Attoraxxion with people with gear below what is said they're "supposed" to have, and you know what? It may go a bit slower, but it goes more than fast enough.

What "full gear" means (which is called hardcap actually), is not up to you to decide, and while getting PEN FG is unrealistic, just as getting a Shinning alc stone is also unrealistic, everything apart from this two is obtainable, and to reach "full gear" you gotta have 'em. And no, tet distos aren't endgame gear, neither a basilisk belt is. Those are budget items for midgame palyers.

Then why PA still selling / giving away this game to new players? Delete all 2017+ accounts and leave only those who play since 2016 because all the rest will never achieve anything and will never catch up with those from 2016.
I repeat: the problem is not getting a softcap, the problem is that you can't get anything else (grind 5-10b per item = ok, grid 150-200b per item = pointless), so what is the point of continuing to play if the game does not offer any guaranteed progression system, on the contrary, you can lose everything and lower your own statistics.

I can grind even 10 hours a day, but it has to pay off and it can't irritate me (open pvp).

Sheesh, no need to be so agressive. I know what "Max Gear" is, and I am not deciding for anyone what it means. 200 billions (for a PEN disto) for +2 AP after 309+ AP is kind of worthless though, and you lose -1 DR (still over 401+ DP so, not rly all that big of a deal). But you are right, Crescent and Basilisk aren't endgame items, but they give the stats at least *shrug* so it's something, and a valid option for the people complaining about the speed to get the gear until you transition to Tungrad (+1 ap oooohh) or Valtarra (+125 HP ooooooh) for belt and Tungrad (again, +1 AP) or Eye of Ruins (+130 HP) for ring I guess, depending on what you really want. I went for Valtarra and Eye of Ruins so I don't get insta killed even with all the DP, cause I want to play without worrying too much about dying, except in PvP, but, that +1 AP ain't gonna do much for me anyway I think.

There are people complaining about the attainability of the gear, which is natural, given the grind that is behind it, but people really shouldn't be rushing it imo. Going above 309+ AP and 401+ DP isn't going to do much for you in PvE, but you can go beyond it, that's why I mentioned that gear as "max gear", but true, real description would be, I guess "soft cap", but even that is going a bit crazy if calling it "soft cap" for a lot of players, but obviously, it is not the true Max Gear. I could go grind some Deboreka, but why and for what? At that point, in PvE meh, who cares, it won't make a difference. In PvP at that point, it's either refine your gear to full evasion or some other build, or if going with the normal stuff and focusing as an all rounder with accuracy and AP, it's all skill and class based at that point in gear.

But go ahead, aim for full PEN deboreka if that's your goal, and I hope you make it or already have it. Can already do everything just fine as is without on my side, once I get my goal, just gonna turn to lifeskilling and grind every now and then if I feel like it or for some group action.

How did that post derail so much? OP said casuals will never catch up, obv they will not.

Whats the point of bringing up a streamer who grinds 8h+ cuz that's his literal job? Thats not the premise of OP.

Its just how bdo is.

I think it just sux that PA caps everything while introducing deboreka crap that only nolifers can get to pen.

I grind only 1h/d i am a AP monkey with accuracy and monster dmg options. I can imagine myself grinding tet debos, sure for the upcoming 3 set but the catch is tet debo earring is probably 17ap ( dont know rn) and tet debo earring is not worth it, i rather keep my tet disto. I would NEVER attempt pen debos as they are right now, NEVER cron dont even protecs 100% from downgrading,  NOW WAY i will waste my time on that.

Thats what sux for me personally. Also i hate that some treasure items are locked behing party grind. I play bdo cuz its a solo game, with mmo element.