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UTC 16 : 12 05. Mai 2024
CEST 18 : 12 05. Mai 2024
PDT 9 : 12 05. Mai 2024
EDT 12 : 12 05. Mai 2024
#Meinung #Community_Support
Sorc succesion Issues
30. Apr 2023, 14:42 (UTC)
2438 33
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Mai 2023, 01:02 (UTC)
# 11

Would be nice to get Wings of the Crow from Awakening as a W+E/W+Q input for more mobility options. Some new skills with S+Q, Shift+Q inputs would be nice, but that's just me being high on hopium. Fixing animation stutters like Vio->DF cancel and Ultimate Stinger going off after Imminent Doom in FPS drop situations would be nice, but I guess that's more of a game performance issue that needs to be fixed. Some sort of protection on Stinger would kinda help with that even if it would cost shards. The kit overall as well is in a weird state, because you have a lot of skills that are loaded with tons of accuracy rate, but our best skills like Black Wave, Vio, TBS etc have close to none. +10% cast speed instead of 5% on Claws even on cooldown (same as pre-awa) would be nice. Ignore res/all res on e-buff should be changed to something else, preferably not +evasion rate or +all DP. I wasn't a fan of the +20% cast speed on the e-buff before, but I tried changing around my playstyle and tbh, I wouldn't change the cast speed for anything. Imho, the effects of Bloody Contract should be merged into a different skill, like Dark Trade for example and it should heal a set % of HP with the CD on Trade changed accordingly. I'm not even gonna talk about Sinister Omen, but I pop it every once in a while for the lulz. Pretty much every absolute skill in the kit should get a Prime version - this is an absolute no-brainer, there's so many cool things that you could do with the pre-awa kit in a real PVP scenario, but it's all so underwhelming because it's just dated af. Darkness Released also should be separated into two different skills with some caveats such as reduced damage as long as either W+F or S+F is on cooldown. Calamity should either get its cooldown reduced to something like 12s or one more skill should get a T3 addon. Dark Backstep shouldn't have a cooldown and stamina lock on it, there's a ton of other classes that can disengage from a fight way farther, faster, way more protected while regenerating stamina along the way. Prime Black Wave should have the same range as the pre-awa version, like which idiot thought this was a good idea? Just some of my thoughts and I apologize for the lack of formatting. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Mai 2023, 03:41 (UTC)
# 12

I play succession sorceress sometimes too, and I think this post makes some very good points. All the suggestions would make the class stronger and more viable, but I don't think all of them are needed to make the class good.

Regarding movement, I also think it is the biggest weakness of this class. It can create some frustrating situations where other classes can completely ignore us by moving away. However, I think the suggestion of 2-second cooldown for Prime: Rushing Crow would be too powerful. In my opinion, it should keep the current cooldown, but remove the shard requirement for long distance Prime: Rushing Crow and Prime: Midnight Stinger.

I also agree with the accuracy issue for Prime: Black Wave. Hopefully the skill can get some bonus accuracy. It would allow succession sorceress to be better at trading damage in PvP, instead of relying on debuffs for damage with special attacks.

I think succession sorceress is in a good place for PvE, at least damage-wise. The only problem is the lack of mobility for high-end spots like Olun's, Elvia Quint Hill, etc. Regarding casting speed, crow flare can be used during combos to block monsters' attacks for 15% casting speed buff.

Overall, I think the class will be viable with only some movement buffs. Reworks on some underwhelming skills like Shard Explosion, Sinister Omen, and Bloody Contract would be nice too.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Mai 2023, 09:05 (UTC)
# 13
On: May 1, 2023, 03:41 (UTC), Written by SILENTnQUIET

I play succession sorceress sometimes too, and I think this post makes some very good points. All the suggestions would make the class stronger and more viable, but I don't think all of them are needed to make the class good.

Regarding movement, I also think it is the biggest weakness of this class. It can create some frustrating situations where other classes can completely ignore us by moving away. However, I think the suggestion of 2-second cooldown for Prime: Rushing Crow would be too powerful. In my opinion, it should keep the current cooldown, but remove the shard requirement for long distance Prime: Rushing Crow and Prime: Midnight Stinger.

I also agree with the accuracy issue for Prime: Black Wave. Hopefully the skill can get some bonus accuracy. It would allow succession sorceress to be better at trading damage in PvP, instead of relying on debuffs for damage with special attacks.

I think succession sorceress is in a good place for PvE, at least damage-wise. The only problem is the lack of mobility for high-end spots like Olun's, Elvia Quint Hill, etc. Regarding casting speed, crow flare can be used during combos to block monsters' attacks for 15% casting speed buff.

Overall, I think the class will be viable with only some movement buffs. Reworks on some underwhelming skills like Shard Explosion, Sinister Omen, and Bloody Contract would be nice too.

Unfortunately, I strongly believe that the suggestion you propose regarding movement will not fix our movement issues at all. Removing the shards will only cause that... we simply won't consume shards even if the distance is greater. Shards are not a problem at all. Our problem is that we lack skills, and the ones we have have a high enough cooldown that it is not sustainable to move comfortably. I once thought that Rushing Crow should be 3 seconds instead of 4, but honestly, I don't think that's enough. 

Reducing Rushing Crow to 2 seconds gives us much more freedom, but at the end, skills cannot be used on cooldown, so we are still somewhat limited, but not by much. Once those two skills are executed, you will have to complement them with a jump in the air or some other skill to transition, and those are slow ways of moving. So I don't think this change is too powerful. In fact, the own Midnight distance is already too short. 

Regarding the Crow Flare skill and its 15% casting speed, it can be useful in PvP, but in PvE it is almost completely useless and only used in extremely specific situations:

  • Normally, Crow Flare is used to access Beak Kick for its -9% evasion buff in High-End spots where that debuff is important. Its use is instant and does not allow time to receive the casting speed buff.

  • Also, in High-End spots, and following the previous point, it is not a skill that you should use to "protect" yourself in the usual way, as we already have a large number of skills with FG and two with sufficient HP recovery.

  • Finally, complementing the previous two points: in spots that are not High-End, you cannot rely on "blocking" attacks to receive the buff, it is completely unsustainable and tedious to deal with.

And in any case, if Claws of Darkness receives the proposed change, it will not affect the casting speed of the previously mentioned skill because they do not stack, making the 15% overlap with the 10%.

I sincerely appreciate your feedback :)!

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Mai 2023, 12:17 (UTC)
# 14

The class is already way above average in the meta, adding accuracy does not seem right since it already has ridicolously high accuracy values on some of the big skills. The class is fine the way it is.

The only thing I would like to see is that Ultimate: Dark Flame would deal 3x more damage. It's a cool skill that has almost no value ever since the kd got removed from it.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Mai 2023, 14:35 (UTC)
# 15
On: May 1, 2023, 12:17 (UTC), Written by MashingBttns

The class is already way above average in the meta, adding accuracy does not seem right since it already has ridicolously high accuracy values on some of the big skills. The class is fine the way it is.

The only thing I would like to see is that Ultimate: Dark Flame would deal 3x more damage. It's a cool skill that has almost no value ever since the kd got removed from it.

In comparison, all the Awakening skills are +15% or +20% except Cartian which also have +0%. 

That thing you mention is funny by itself and at the same time another problem. We don't need to have 20%+ accuracy in X skills while many others are completely ignored with a 0% including Black Wave and Violation, both are important skills on PvE, for example. 0% accuracy on grinding spots like Oluns, Hexe, Quint becomes a little frustrating when trying to have 100% hit rate if you don't have pen blackstars or accuracy accessories, while this is not a problem with the vast majority of classes. Especially, because you depend of the -9% evasion from the scuffed Beak Kick. And I won't even talk about Crypt.

It would be better to balance this instead, don't you think?. Even if the main suggestion is PvP oriented, not everything is about PvP, it also matters for high-end PvE. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Mai 2023, 15:38 (UTC)
# 16
On: May 1, 2023, 12:17 (UTC), Written by MashingBttns

The class is already way above average in the meta, adding accuracy does not seem right since it already has ridicolously high accuracy values on some of the big skills. The class is fine the way it is.

The only thing I would like to see is that Ultimate: Dark Flame would deal 3x more damage. It's a cool skill that has almost no value ever since the kd got removed from it.

During this Tag event, try other above-average classes in bdo. You can use garmoth for your picks, or whatever fortune teller you ascribe to. Compare her to the twins, succ hash, succ zerk, stroker ... heck...you can even try Awa sorc at high level. The effect-for-effort you will get will be much higher both in pvp and pve (up to 35%). One of the main reasons is literally the accuracy modifier on Blackwave and Violation - the two highest dps-to-cooldown skills Succession has.

I don't know if you are at the end-game, but at spots like hexe (and ash,crypt for some of us degenerates), but doing beak kick in those zones to get the evasion debuff running very commonly results in:

1. You miss 1/2 the pack since the skill aoe is abysmall

2. You die because it's unprotected

3. The debuff runs out before you've had a chance to setup all the pre-buffs and positioning to make violation/black wave effective

-

So many randos popping up saying that Succ Sorc is in a good place and A+ tier, when most players switch off the spec immediately after trying any Fotm class and seeing how much they are missing, or they quit the game entirely because they've been chirping for years for changes to the class. The rare few of us that remain to play it at the highest level have to constantly deal with either people who have PTSD from Sorc Awakening (cus they are too lazy to learn animations) or those two guys that watched a youtube video of Succession Sorc grinding Ash Forest (very ineffectively) with seasonal gear.

Other randos just chirp cus their class is mediocre as well, and are jealous/lazy to produce such articles themselves.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Mai 2023, 16:59 (UTC)
# 17
On: May 1, 2023, 14:35 (UTC), Written by GameruRc

In comparison, all the Awakening skills are +15% or +20% except Cartian which also have +0%. 

That thing you mention is funny by itself and at the same time another problem. We don't need to have 20%+ accuracy in X skills while many others are completely ignored with a 0% including Black Wave and Violation, both are important skills on PvE, for example. 0% accuracy on grinding spots like Oluns, Hexe, Quint becomes a little frustrating when trying to have 100% hit rate if you don't have pen blackstars or accuracy accessories, while this is not a problem with the vast majority of classes. Especially, because you depend of the -9% evasion from the scuffed Beak Kick. And I won't even talk about Crypt.

It would be better to balance this instead, don't you think?. Even if the main suggestion is PvP oriented, not everything is about PvP, it also matters for high-end PvE. 

Your takes on pve are accetable ON pve only. When you switch a few of them into pvp, as well with the pvp changes you proposed, it makes one of the most opressive classes in the game. Quick example, you reduce CD of Bloody Calamity to 12 seconds, that is a an almost 100% potential uptime of -12% (+ addon if they are there) accuracy in a somewhat big AoE, is that OK? It does not sound like it, and I did play evasion succ sorc.

By balance the accuracy, do you mean splitting the accuracy in Abyssal Flame and DoD to other skills? That's just pain for pvp and would only hurt. Do you mean simply flat out adding accuracy to vio and black wave? Now that does not sound fair when a bunch of your nukes are already high accuracy doesn't it?

I understand it's hard to balance pve and pvp but keep in mind that the class is doing very well in PvP already. Changes to that part should be very minor, if any.

Also TBS does have a 5% accuracy rate modifier.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Mai 2023, 17:16 (UTC)
# 18
On: May 1, 2023, 15:38 (UTC), Written by Zoroaster

During this Tag event, try other above-average classes in bdo. You can use garmoth for your picks, or whatever fortune teller you ascribe to. Compare her to the twins, succ hash, succ zerk, stroker ... heck...you can even try Awa sorc at high level. The effect-for-effort you will get will be much higher both in pvp and pve (up to 35%). One of the main reasons is literally the accuracy modifier on Blackwave and Violation - the two highest dps-to-cooldown skills Succession has.

I don't know if you are at the end-game, but at spots like hexe (and ash,crypt for some of us degenerates), but doing beak kick in those zones to get the evasion debuff running very commonly results in:

1. You miss 1/2 the pack since the skill aoe is abysmall

2. You die because it's unprotected

3. The debuff runs out before you've had a chance to setup all the pre-buffs and positioning to make violation/black wave effective

-

So many randos popping up saying that Succ Sorc is in a good place and A+ tier, when most players switch off the spec immediately after trying any Fotm class and seeing how much they are missing, or they quit the game entirely because they've been chirping for years for changes to the class. The rare few of us that remain to play it at the highest level have to constantly deal with either people who have PTSD from Sorc Awakening (cus they are too lazy to learn animations) or those two guys that watched a youtube video of Succession Sorc grinding Ash Forest (very ineffectively) with seasonal gear.

Other randos just chirp cus their class is mediocre as well, and are jealous/lazy to produce such articles themselves.

First, it always depends of the content you are running on. Do you do PVP on a daily basis? I mean everyday, Nw, rbf, open world, battle arena. The class is performing waaay above average.

Second, since when is putting effort into a class in order to perform a bad thing? Maybe sorc is fine but the other "broken" classes you mentioned are just overtunned? Making sorc broken to match other broken classes does not sound sustainable or any helpfull to the game. Maybe review what kind of changes you have in mind.

Then, the aoe of beak kick? Yeah I will give you that, but when was the last time you died because of using it or how can the debuff run out if it lasts 10 seconds in a 4 second CD skill?
People swap out of the class because it is not that easy to perform on it and that's ok, it takes some practice and experience to do the wonders some players do, or do you really think the problem is 10% accuracy on Black Wave/Violation? For PvE maybe, but adding that on PvP sounds incredibly unfair and it affects both sides of the track.
Also, I saw your proposed changes on the other post. Do you not realize that the Frontal Guards are a gift and that they are the reason people can potentially shine on the class?

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 09. Mai 2023, 15:30 (UTC)
# 19

Lot of the points mentioned are critical to make this spec viable again.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 09. Mai 2023, 15:57 (UTC)
# 20
On: May 1, 2023, 17:14 (UTC), Written by MashingBttns

First, it always depends of the content you are running on. Do you do PVP on a daily basis? I mean everyday, Nw, rbf, open world, battle arena. The class is performing waaay above average.

Second, since when is putting effort into a class in order to perform a bad thing? Maybe sorc is fine but the other "broken" classes you mentioned are just overtunned? Making sorc broken to match other broken classes does not sound sustainable or any helpfull to the game. Maybe review what kind of changes you have in mind.

Then, the aoe of beak kick? Yeah I will give you that, but when was the last time you died because of using it or how can the debuff run out if it lasts 10 seconds in a 4 second CD skill?
People swap out of the class because it is not that easy to perform on it and that's ok, it takes some practice and experience to do the wonders some players do, or do you really think the problem is 10% accuracy on Black Wave/Violation? For PvE maybe, but adding that on PvP sounds incredibly unfair and it affects both sides of the track.
Also, I saw your proposed changes on the other post. Do you not realize that the Frontal Guards are a gift and that they are the reason people can potentially shine on the class?

Forget it mashing, people gave up on maintaining classes in a balanced state with regard to feedback when reworks hit. Now its everyone for themselves and whine the loudest so PA makes you the next fotm spec.

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