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UTC 5 : 3 17. Mai 2024
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#Meinung
Remove Water Stamina from T10 Unicorn Completely
23. Jul 2023, 22:27 (UTC)
5408 115
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Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 31. Jul 2023, 16:58 (UTC)
# 71
On: Jul 31, 2023, 16:44 (UTC), Written by JohnnyBoy


That's not an argument. I asked WHY would you stop ppl from infinite running on water? what's so OP about that? 
I can already run from Papu island to Hakoven, just with stops. 
I can run from Velia to Oquilla, with like 3 stops. 
It's all about hindrance, and not actual useful mechanics. 

Also, why tf do I need to run from Papu Crinea to Hakoven? it's not even useful nor beneficial, and it's even FASTER ON LAND. How is that even considered OP? xD

If you think T10 Dine is a bad idea to begin with, why are you even in here?

You just proved my point.  You don't need unlimited stamina.  Thanks.  But keep whining about it, despite not needing it, and knowing damn well that the devs will never allow it.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 31. Jul 2023, 17:18 (UTC)
# 72
On: Jul 31, 2023, 16:58 (UTC), Written by Picklenose

You just proved my point.  You don't need unlimited stamina.  Thanks.  But keep whining about it, despite not needing it, and knowing damn well that the devs will never allow it.

Still avoiding the question while giving petty answers instead. 

T10 Dine needs unlimited water stamina so it won't need to stop every few seconds doing absolutely nothing until the stamina refills.
It hinders gameplay with no apparent reason. 

what's your reason? why do T10 Dine NEEDS water stamina?
maybe you'll give a relevant answer this time around instead of trying to personally attack me lol

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 31. Jul 2023, 17:28 (UTC)
# 73
On: Jul 31, 2023, 17:18 (UTC), Written by JohnnyBoy

Still avoiding the question while giving petty answers instead. 

T10 Dine needs unlimited water stamina so it won't need to stop every few seconds doing absolutely nothing until the stamina refills.
It hinders gameplay with no apparent reason. 

what's your reason? why do T10 Dine NEEDS water stamina?
maybe you'll give a relevant answer this time around instead of trying to personally attack me lol

I already said.  There is NO reason why T10 dine needs unlimited water running.  I haven't given a reason?  You haven't given a reason why it SHOULD be allowed.   There's potential fixes for the stamina regen, such as make it faster ON LAND or make it regen while you're moving ON LAND.   If you think this horse should be able to from corner to corner of the map and all the way around, that's a pipe dream.

Make it fair for the other horses then.   Unlimited (never-ending) instant-accel for T10 doom and unlimited flying for T10 peggy, yet you already said peggy is way OP just by being able to glide for 5 seconds and able to fly up to the height of a rooftop.   O_o

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 31. Jul 2023, 18:25 (UTC)
# 74
On: Jul 31, 2023, 17:22 (UTC), Written by Picklenose

I already said.  There is NO reason why T10 dine needs unlimited water running.  I haven't given a reason?  You haven't given a reason why it SHOULD be allowed.   There's potential fixes for the stamina regen, such as make it faster ON LAND or make it regen while you're moving ON LAND.   If you think this horse should be able to from corner to corner of the map and all the way around, that's a pipe dream.

Make it fair for the other horses then.   Unlimited (never-ending) instant-accel for T10 doom and unlimited flying for T10 peggy, yet you already said peggy is way OP just by being able to glide for 5 seconds and able to fly up to the height of a rooftop.   O_o

I did give a reason. multiple times. 
So your issue is with balance to other horses? while water riding is a complete niche that can only help you reach very specific areas in the map? usually pretty useless normally, unless you can actually utilize it on land through rivers, but then again stamina just hinders you badly. 

T10 pegi is definitely amazing now. I own one, I know. 
you can reach a mountain top in seconds, and hop to the next mountain top now with the new Q skill. Maybe it's a skill issue if you can only reach rooftops?

it's not about comparing them, it's about the mechanic of a specific horse. you know very well infinite flight or infinite dash is not even comparable to water running, which is same as normal running just on water, slightly faster. 

Sounds like a case of envy. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 31. Jul 2023, 19:25 (UTC)
# 75
On: Jul 31, 2023, 17:18 (UTC), Written by JohnnyBoy

Still avoiding the question while giving petty answers instead. 

T10 Dine needs unlimited water stamina so it won't need to stop every few seconds doing absolutely nothing until the stamina refills.
It hinders gameplay with no apparent reason. 

what's your reason? why do T10 Dine NEEDS water stamina?
maybe you'll give a relevant answer this time around instead of trying to personally attack me lol

So hey, I just tapped a T10 Dine this morning, and funny enough...it regenerates stamina (albeit slower) while moving! Amazing. You lied.

Why does the horse need stamina? We will say it again, and the reason is always the same, because the BDO devs know that this can be a griefing tool.

Again, your point to the horse not regenerating while moving is completely invalidated, it just doesn't regenerate fast enough for you. Learn patience.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 31. Jul 2023, 19:56 (UTC)
# 76
On: Jul 31, 2023, 19:25 (UTC), Written by irondood

So hey, I just tapped a T10 Dine this morning, and funny enough...it regenerates stamina (albeit slower) while moving! Amazing. You lied.

Why does the horse need stamina? We will say it again, and the reason is always the same, because the BDO devs know that this can be a griefing tool.

Again, your point to the horse not regenerating while moving is completely invalidated, it just doesn't regenerate fast enough for you. Learn patience.

Congrats. 
I never said it doesn't regenerates stamina while running, though it's ridiculously slow.
although you can't really run while waiting on an island right?
Please elaborate how can it be a grieving tool? please specify with stamina vs without stamina. 
Since you have the T10 Dine now right? you can also test it, and get your own conclusions. 

it's not about patience, it's about POINTLESS HINDRANCE.
I play BDO for 5.5 years. I know a lot about patience, trust me ^^

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 31. Jul 2023, 20:27 (UTC)
# 77
On: Jul 31, 2023, 19:56 (UTC), Written by JohnnyBoy

Congrats. 
I never said it doesn't regenerates stamina while running, though it's ridiculously slow.
although you can't really run while waiting on an island right?
Please elaborate how can it be a grieving tool? please specify with stamina vs without stamina. 
Since you have the T10 Dine now right? you can also test it, and get your own conclusions. 

it's not about patience, it's about POINTLESS HINDRANCE.
I play BDO for 5.5 years. I know a lot about patience, trust me ^^

You specifically said you have to stand still doing nothing for the stamina to regen.

And yes, i do own a T10 peggy, and no, you can't "fly from mountain top to mountain top" unless that other mountain top is within the distance between Heidel CM to Heidel storage.  Another lie/complete exaggeration.

"Running on water is just an extension of running in the desert" - it's not, it's completely separate skill.

"I have to stand still for 10 seconds for the stamina to regen" - debunked by irondood

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 31. Jul 2023, 20:43 (UTC)
# 78
On: Jul 31, 2023, 20:14 (UTC), Written by Picklenose

You specifically said you have to stand still doing nothing for the stamina to regen.

And yes, i do own a T10 peggy, and no, you can't "fly from mountain top to mountain top" unless that other mountain top is within the distance between Heidel CM to Heidel storage.  Another lie/complete exaggeration.

"Running on water is just an extension of running in the desert" - it's not, it's completely separate skill.

"I have to stand still for 10 seconds for the stamina to regen" - debunked by irondood

Yes, on islands you have to stand still to refill stamina. 

Also There you go:
like I said. skill issue.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Aug 2023, 18:55 (UTC)
# 79

TLDR:
Doom - Fast and simple
Pegy - Fast, can even do shortcuts, but rely on rider's experience.

Dine - Great tripple jump, and can run on water, but annoying delays on water.


Here's how I will compare all the 3 mythical horses, and why dine needs this buff:

Doom - Simple, no brainer, newbie friendly. All you need to do is set a path where you want to go, then go zoom zoom following the path. Fast and easy.

Pegy (experienced rider) - You can travel the land very fast (arguably faster than doom with perfect execution of shortcuts), but you need to get used to all the flight skill and you need to:
1. know how high it can jump/fly,
2. know how much distance it travels with each skill,
3. know exactly where will you land when u use the fast decent skill (F when flying), and finally
4. know the proper "shortcut" path to go from point a to point b, so that you know efficiently when to use each skills and chain the skills properly. Especially when to use the fast decent F VS the Q flight skill (As these 2 skill cannot be used together).

Pegy (newbie rider) - Either you are just a weaker doom, set autopath and follow it. Or you take straight line from point A to point B, then you can spam the Q flight skill, and jump/go through most terrains. Simple and fun, but the downside is that:
1. The higher u fly, the slower u are. when u fly very high / too far from the ground, your Q skill will end with slow decent, 
2. you may get stucked by some terrains, especially if you're not familiar with bdo maps. or even worst #3

3. you drown. Then you have to swim a bit to get back to the land.

Dine - can run on water and the tripple jump is amazing. But, desert running on t9 is already very niche, water running is even more niche than t9. There's no issue with having T9 run on desert without "desert stamina", why would there be issue with running on water without "water stamina"? Its not going to beat carrack, as you're already limited and cannot enter ross sea, plus you cannot barter with it, which is totally fine. But the water stamina right now, is just super annoying to "pause" on islands just to regain stamina. Also, please make it possible to go from lema to oquilla directly without going to turn around and pause multiple times on smaller islands.

Now imagine, if your horses normal stamina on land drains similarly as much as the t10 dine water stamina, and each time the stamina ran out, you can only walk with it (no running) just like you would when u ran out of stamina right now, then yes, you can gain stamina back just like a t10 dine water stamina. Does that stops you to go from 1 place to another (on land)? No. But does that annoys you? Yes (atleast for me). Basically t10 dine on water right now.

Someone above mentioned that t10 dine without water stamina can be used as griefing tool, I'm not too much of a pvp so i dont know much, so let me ask few questions:
1. Explain how! you cannot use t10 dine offensive skill on water, so please explain step by step method, also taking consideration of current waterh stamina. Can you already grief wit t10 dine now too?

2. What are the chances of people exploiting this? In my experience, very little ppl griefing in desert with t9 dine, would u expect ppl to do this with t10 on water? sure, there will be 1 or 2 ppl, but what about others? Also, a note, there's many ppl hyped for doom because its new, and pegy popularity is very high. I would say most ppl right now will go for t10 pegy/doom first, and its not easy to get multiple t10s. Unless you're rng carried, or you are a trainer and stocked up mats for a long time.
3. Whats wrong with a few ppl griefing on water? bdo already have pvp anabled anyway, there's way so much more ppl griefing on land, why care less about 1 or 2 that grief on water? There's already pirates/naval fame system, perhaps can somehow include griefing on water as pirates. (again, i didnt do pvp, not entirely sure how the naval fame system works)

Ok, finally (I've said this before, but will say it again),
Even if, lets say, running on water infinitely is still not ok. Then, a new mechanic / system is required, as the current water stamina is just bad design, and only annoys t10 dine user (even without exploiting in mind). Perhaps can greatly increase the rate the water stamina recovers (3 seconds or less on land for full recovery), OR maybe slightly increase the usage of the standard stamina (but remove water stam), doom and pegy have insanely high stamina usage already, so I'm totally fine if they increase stamina usage on water for dine. (PS, they do need to add a better carrot than carrot confit tho xD)

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 01. Aug 2023, 19:09 (UTC)
# 80
On: Jul 23, 2023, 22:27 (UTC), Written by ImChoice

With the recent buff to the T10 Unicorn's water stamina, it still leaves a lot to be desired compared to the T10 Doom and T10 Pegasus. The new flight skill on peggy is a massive upgrade to the flight, and the T10 Doom speed is a huge upgrade over the standard T9 Doom. These are all practical upgrades to these horses, but water travel on Unicorn is already quite niche, and having a limit on the distance you can travel is arbitrary and just unneeded. There isn't any practical exploits that can be done with water travel by horse anyways, and you already cannot go into the Ross sea. I propose that the water stamina be completely removed.

No Idea why this hasn't happened yet thank you for saying what needed to be said lol

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