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Panokseon Is OP
12. Okt 2023, 11:10 (UTC)
1073 19
1 2
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 11:13 (UTC)
# 1

Hi I'm toes #1 roleplayer na and boat enthusiast. I have a hardcapped volante, +10 chiro gear and Ebenruth's Nol with a 20 confident build for the following stat spread:
1.5 mil dura

196.5 speed
312.7 turn

11 sec reload time

150 range

My friend Salty_Scallywag has a Panokseon with +10 blue gear, 30 confidents for the following stats:

2.2 mil dura
192.3 speed
373.4 Turn
12 sec reload time
150 range
All stats have been equalized to 16% Sailing Mastery bonus and both ships can equip Ebenruth's Nol

So lets compare the stats. The Panokseon sacrifices 4.2% speed and 1 sec cannon reload speed for about 700k or 68% more durability and 60.7 more turn. To put into perspective how insane the turn difference alone is 100 sailing mastery gives 1% turn, and mastery caps out at 2k. With how inflated ship stats are due to the recent cabin stat buffs the 4.2% speed is borderline irrelevant due to how low it is, however 68% even with inflated stats is a massive maneuverabillity boost with noticeable effects in combat.

Additionally, the Panokseon is significantly more durable than a carrack with the extra 700k dura allowing the panokseon to take 3-4 more full perfectly accurate volleys than a carrack can. Coupled with the evasiveness of the turn difference, this makes Panokseon a bitch to kill. A carrack user would have to aim and play significantly better than a Panokseon user for a longer amount of time to win a 1v1 fight.

Panokseon has a few hidden advantages as well, namely its versatility and its geometry. The Panokseon gains the majority of its stats from sailors, which are interchangeable at will, instead of gear. This means the Panokseon can totally change how it plays and what role it fills with just a few clicks, assuming the captain has spent 200 dollars on sailor slots. Carracks while having significantly more cabin space than before, are still locked into their respective roles of Volante speed and Valor reload and can never specialize as well as a Panokseon can. Something people dont always think about is how the Panokseon is shaped as well. While laughably ugly, the in game model is notably more difficult to actually hit with a salvo of cannonballs than the more elongated traditional carrack hitbox. 

And of course all of this is before we inevitably get a p2w skin for it that has stat boosts like we did for carrack.

The result of this is the Panokseon sacrifices very very little to be significantly more durable, more maneuverable, and more versatile than the best carracks in the game. The Panokseon has ONE weakness and that's it's cannon cd which is 12 seconds. A grand total of ONE second slower than the volante while still doing max pvp cap damage per volley. 

To bring it in line and better fulfill the role of being a slightly less powerful ship than carrack that PA had in mind when designing it, I would suggest a few changes to its firepower while still preserving its unique position as a versatile ship that can fill a variety of roles:
     -13 second cannon reload speed, same as the Epheria Carrack: Advance
     -Cannon PvP damage reduced to be identical to the Epheria Carrack: Advance at each enhancement level
     -Maximum durability reduced by 400k to 1.8 mil down from 2.2 mil
     -Buff the flamethrower damage to actually be able to kill people with like less than 300 dr (it cant kill my 17dp lifeskill gear set kek) 
     -Increase Maximum LT by 1,000 from 18,100 to 19,100
     -Increase Maximum Rations to 2 mil to compensate for large cabin size

     Overall the issue with this ship seems to stem from how much PA understimated how strong the bonus stats from hiring sailors is but the sheer power difference can thankfully be corrected by shifting around a few numbers.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 12:25 (UTC)
# 2

-1

Newer means it should be stronger. 

Otherwise there is no reason for the content to exist or even be a goal. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 15:42 (UTC)
# 3

If it makes you feel any better, I guarantee you the next boat upgrade will go to the panak, not the carrack.  

PA slapped us in the face with the Epheria Galleon.

116 1017
Lv Privat
Picklenose
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 15:57 (UTC)
# 4
On: Oct 12, 2023, 12:25 (UTC), Written by ArchaicTriad

-1

Newer means it should be stronger. 

Otherwise there is no reason for the content to exist or even be a goal. 

When the panak was announced, it was supposed to be a "mid-tier" boat

116 1017
Lv Privat
Picklenose
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 17:47 (UTC)
# 5
On: Oct 12, 2023, 11:10 (UTC), Written by NiceToesBro

Hi I'm toes #1 roleplayer na and boat enthusiast. I have a hardcapped volante, +10 chiro gear and Ebenruth's Nol with a 20 confident build for the following stat spread:
1.5 mil dura

196.5 speed
312.7 turn

11 sec reload time

150 range

My friend Salty_Scallywag has a Panokseon with +10 blue gear, 30 confidents for the following stats:

2.2 mil dura
192.3 speed
373.4 Turn
12 sec reload time
150 range
All stats have been equalized to 16% Sailing Mastery bonus and both ships can equip Ebenruth's Nol

So lets compare the stats. The Panokseon sacrifices 4.2% speed and 1 sec cannon reload speed for about 700k or 68% more durability and 60.7 more turn. To put into perspective how insane the turn difference alone is 100 sailing mastery gives 1% turn, and mastery caps out at 2k. With how inflated ship stats are due to the recent cabin stat buffs the 4.2% speed is borderline irrelevant due to how low it is, however 68% even with inflated stats is a massive maneuverabillity boost with noticeable effects in combat.

Additionally, the Panokseon is significantly more durable than a carrack with the extra 700k dura allowing the panokseon to take 3-4 more full perfectly accurate volleys than a carrack can. Coupled with the evasiveness of the turn difference, this makes Panokseon a bitch to kill. A carrack user would have to aim and play significantly better than a Panokseon user for a longer amount of time to win a 1v1 fight.

Panokseon has a few hidden advantages as well, namely its versatility and its geometry. The Panokseon gains the majority of its stats from sailors, which are interchangeable at will, instead of gear. This means the Panokseon can totally change how it plays and what role it fills with just a few clicks, assuming the captain has spent 200 dollars on sailor slots. Carracks while having significantly more cabin space than before, are still locked into their respective roles of Volante speed and Valor reload and can never specialize as well as a Panokseon can. Something people dont always think about is how the Panokseon is shaped as well. While laughably ugly, the in game model is notably more difficult to actually hit with a salvo of cannonballs than the more elongated traditional carrack hitbox. 

And of course all of this is before we inevitably get a p2w skin for it that has stat boosts like we did for carrack.

The result of this is the Panokseon sacrifices very very little to be significantly more durable, more maneuverable, and more versatile than the best carracks in the game. The Panokseon has ONE weakness and that's it's cannon cd which is 12 seconds. A grand total of ONE second slower than the volante while still doing max pvp cap damage per volley. 

To bring it in line and better fulfill the role of being a slightly less powerful ship than carrack that PA had in mind when designing it, I would suggest a few changes to its firepower while still preserving its unique position as a versatile ship that can fill a variety of roles:
     -13 second cannon reload speed, same as the Epheria Carrack: Advance
     -Cannon PvP damage reduced to be identical to the Epheria Carrack: Advance at each enhancement level
     -Maximum durability reduced by 400k to 1.8 mil down from 2.2 mil
     -Buff the flamethrower damage to actually be able to kill people with like less than 300 dr (it cant kill my 17dp lifeskill gear set kek) 
     -Increase Maximum LT by 1,000 from 18,100 to 19,100
     -Increase Maximum Rations to 2 mil to compensate for large cabin size

     Overall the issue with this ship seems to stem from how much PA understimated how strong the bonus stats from hiring sailors is but the sheer power difference can thankfully be corrected by shifting around a few numbers.

Salty_Scallywag here:

I think its time for my good friend Toes to go on a bartering arc and build the panokseon. The only reason he wont is because he hates the appearance of the boat. Therefore I propose that a skin be released for the panokseon so that toes has a reason to make one. The stats are fine, all boats do the same damage in pvp at max minus the advance. if you want to talk pvp balance, look into the nol. I think having other treasure crystal options would be good. (the crow coin shop needs a revamp anyways because of the khan heart changes and its direct impact on the crow coin economy)

Some things I would like to see fixed on the panokseon include:

- making the fire usable while moving and independent of the cannonball cooldown. (including during breezy sail)

- increase the player damage of the fire

- allow for repair of the panokseon by party members

- add a skin for the panokseon

- fix the sailor xp bug so that having more than 20 sailors on board still gives XP

- fix the portside cannon spread.

- reduce ration consumption

Those are just a few Panokseon QoL things. If you really want to balance naval pvp, step 1 is fixing desync and 200+ fps turning abuse (camlock). Dont change any boat stats until those two things are adressed and tested.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 20:05 (UTC)
# 6
On: Oct 12, 2023, 17:29 (UTC), Written by DixonMchunt

Salty_Scallywag here:

I think its time for my good friend Toes to go on a bartering arc and build the panokseon. The only reason he wont is because he hates the appearance of the boat. Therefore I propose that a skin be released for the panokseon so that toes has a reason to make one. The stats are fine, all boats do the same damage in pvp at max minus the advance. if you want to talk pvp balance, look into the nol. I think having other treasure crystal options would be good. (the crow coin shop needs a revamp anyways because of the khan heart changes and its direct impact on the crow coin economy)

Some things I would like to see fixed on the panokseon include:

- making the fire usable while moving and independent of the cannonball cooldown. (including during breezy sail)

- increase the player damage of the fire

- allow for repair of the panokseon by party members

- add a skin for the panokseon

- fix the sailor xp bug so that having more than 20 sailors on board still gives XP

- fix the portside cannon spread.

- reduce ration consumption

Those are just a few Panokseon QoL things. If you really want to balance naval pvp, step 1 is fixing desync and 200+ fps turning abuse (camlock). Dont change any boat stats until those two things are adressed and tested.

i mostly agree theres also other downsides to the panok that you dont have on a carrack, like much less barter capacity because of lower wt+extra sailors, much larger upfront cost+time gated by -15- weeklys and 100k ccoin cost ontop of the green cost costing 10k apiece+whatever you need to tap them to 10. so you can not reasonably make it as your first ship, you almost have to already have a carrack to reasonably get that much ccoin. though the blue gear does cost less so they cost the same at full blue 10. they may have annouced it as a intermediary ship but the final product is more in line with having another specialized frigate line ship and i dont think thats really going to change unless they buff carracks more but theres a fine line so they dont make their new content doa content. i do not believe any kind of nerf will happen as people have already spent a lot of time and money aquiring the ship+the sailors slots.

the most pressing issue with it i believe, is that f2p people can not use it to full effectiveness. they should add another 5 sailor slots in some way, maybe via loyalty as a longer term progression because at the moment you basically have to spend $$$ to use it over a carrack. aside from that id like to see them lower the time gate OR the ccoin cost to make it more reasonable for people to make as their first boat.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 20:10 (UTC)
# 7
On: Oct 12, 2023, 20:05 (UTC), Written by Sidt

i mostly agree theres also other downsides to the panok that you dont have on a carrack, like much less barter capacity because of lower wt+extra sailors, much larger upfront cost+time gated by -15- weeklys and 100k ccoin cost ontop of the green cost costing 10k apiece+whatever you need to tap them to 10. so you can not reasonably make it as your first ship, you almost have to already have a carrack to reasonably get that much ccoin. though the blue gear does cost less so they cost the same at full blue 10. they may have annouced it as a intermediary ship but the final product is more in line with having another specialized frigate line ship and i dont think thats really going to change unless they buff carracks more but theres a fine line so they dont make their new content doa content. i do not believe any kind of nerf will happen as people have already spent a lot of time and money aquiring the ship+the sailors slots.

the most pressing issue with it i believe, is that f2p people can not use it to full effectiveness. they should add another 5 sailor slots in some way, maybe via loyalty as a longer term progression because at the moment you basically have to spend $$ to use it over a carrack. aside from that id like to see them lower the time gate OR the ccoin cost to make it more reasonable for people to make as their first boat.

perhaps allowing sailor slots to be purchased with nampoo coins?

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 20:11 (UTC)
# 8

They can have their p2w ship to do nothing with.

I ain't coughing up $5 per sailor slot for that ugly thing to do....... nothing with.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 20:34 (UTC)
# 9
On: Oct 12, 2023, 20:10 (UTC), Written by DixonMchunt

perhaps allowing sailor slots to be purchased with nampoo coins?

that would be nice

(now that i already maxed out my 50 slots...)  speaking of which.. 50 slots is not enough...  i'm 1 week away from both my Panak and my 3rd carrack..  I need more slots >.<

116 1017
Lv Privat
Picklenose
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 12. Okt 2023, 22:07 (UTC)
# 10
Panokseon is in a very weird spot right now. It's not great for barter, it's DPS can't compete for SMH, it has some pros and cons for PvP, party members not being able to repair is a huge con, it's P2W if you want to use all cabin slots that even if you were to use 10x Dreaming of a Full Haul sailors (Not sure why you'd want to) which have the highest cabin cost per sailor slot, you'd still only use 130/150 cabin slots, and it's laughably easy to make even as your first real ship.

I ran the numbers recently and if you were to do PEN Pit + Sailies each day and selling the Carrack mats, you'd have enough crow coins to make the Panokseon in the 15 week period. All you have to worry about is doing 20 Normal > T1 barters a day (sailies that you have to do yourself), the Panokseon weekly blueprints, the LOML dailies for the coins and maybe if you don't have enough nails you might have to grind some small goldmonts in an Improved Sailboat unless you find someone to help you with that.

Because of how casual it is to build a Panokseon, I don't really want to see the changes you suggest. If people don't care about barter and want to get into sea content then maybe it being on par with an Advance would kill the point of being able to do sea content without going through the process of making a Carrack. But I do think it doesn't really belong anywhere in it's current state and would like to see it changed to better fit some niche that's more on the combat side instead of barter.
Lv Privat
Whoayeah
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