But when BDO launched, owpvp was an evidence, at the same time it was en efficient tool and something you would not use mindlessly because it could bite you back. YES, it was not perfect because the exp loss was overtuned, but removing it without replacing was the first mistake. Devs tried several things after that, always in the same direction despite our warnings, and GUESS WHAT? It still doesn't work properly.

They don't show the game with the most common settings, I mean servers with owpvp and rules. It's either pve or FFA. 

Except that, the idea is not bad, but some players may feel overwhelmed when they reach the normal game, but I wouldn't blame seasons for that. Players tested an introduction to BDO and some didn't like it, it sounds quite logical and sane to proceed like this. 

It doesn't work simply because the devs are as confused as you are about what you want. They add pvp but you do not want it because its consensual pvp. Similar to a boxing match, were person A and B sign up to fight. However this is not what you and the rest of the very vocal very minority want. What you want is more so of a form of predator vs prey. Were there is a dominant player and a lesser player, and one goes to take and wipe out the lesser one who more than likely did not sign up to even fight. I find it quite funny because one of the saying you would hear time and time again is "Well, when you hit level 50 you sign up for pvp. So if you don't want to pvp don't hit 50". But players such as yourself don't want to sign up for Arsha. And its not even that you fight every 30mins, that can happen on a non arsha server already. Its just that you don't want predator vs predator pvp. Not only do you have to go up against someone who thinks similar to you, but you have to go up against players who have a real taste for "open pvp". And you don't want that. Instead you would rather the devs come up with some bizzare rule set to allow you to continue to play your game of predator vs prey. 

Its quite interesting. It was pretty much the same in Lineage 2.

Its just that you don't want predator vs predator pvp. Not only do you have to go up against someone who thinks similar to you, but you have to go up against players who have a real taste for "open pvp". And you don't want that. Instead you would rather the devs come up with some bizzare rule set to allow you to continue to play your game of predator vs prey.

I think you captured nicely what confused me about these discussions at the beginning as well. For some reason, some players expressed that OwPvP was the only mode they considered worthy and fair. Arsha not fair, AOS not fair, RBF not fair, GvG not fair. This mindset makes it understandable - they will find geared and skilled players in these modes, which is not really what they want. It is not surprising that devs are not willing to make few people predators and everyone else prey, since they have the data to see what this does with the playerbase.

Its nothing to do with predator vs prey its we want to keep our spots when we are on classes that are terrible at grinding. E.g PA nerfing awakening kuno so basically everything that isnt succ nova grind over top of her. Do you know the only way to stop these people bullying you out of a spot , you flag kill them an carry on . Except thats not how it works now as you could declare war before. Your clueless if you think its predator vs prey not even close. Its people trying to protect what they got which was first in first serve now its best grinding class gets the spot.

Again, I grinded 2 flames and 4 artifacts from pities. Not a single time did anyone grind over me on buffed servers in prime time. Not a single time. And 2 flames ar a large sample. But repeatedly someone came to backstab me and left. The story of defending your spot is mostly made up. 

 we want to keep our spots when we are on classes that are terrible at grinding. 

The updates have only penalized PvP where at least one of the participants is unwilling to fight. If you want guild vs guild fights, then organize them. If by guild vs guild fights you mean you harassed people until they were forced to beg their guildmates to help them, then that most definitely wasn't fun for the ones who were harassed.

There are no penalties for duels, there are no penalties for guild wars accepted by both sides, there are no penalties between two flagged players, there are no penalties in Arsha. Therefore there are literally no penalties for PvP where both sides are having fun. If you try to fight people who don't want to PvP, that's only fun for you, not for them, therefore it's toxic. Of course PA doesn't want to encourage that.