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UTC 2 : 40 16. Jun 2024
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#Meinung
A Middle Ground Approach to the New War System
29. Mai 2024, 20:36 (UTC)
727 8
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 29. Mai 2024, 21:12 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name: Occult Overload

Region (NA/EU): NA

Suggestions/Comments: 
The reality of the situation is that many players are displeased with the new Node War system recently implemented. I want to offer my constructive feedback on this system with potential practical solutions. Below I have outlined some things I feel work well in the new system, the good; and some things that do not work, the bad. In the end you will find a brief suggestion of a way I think the developers can blend the new and old systems together to make a much more enjoyable experience across the board. 

THE GOOD
1. Good Rewards.
They feel worth the effort and time and are beneficial to a myriad of different play styles.  
2. No Scripting. The fact that fights are no longer predetermined is great. This prevents the situation of the Cartel that is happening in KR as well as the same old boring fights that happen on NA. 
3. Bigger Maps & Randomized Forts. The larger format feels good for the most part and the randomization of forts is a great way to avoid those wars where people build on ridiculous terrain. The randomization between two regions is a good solution to prevent scripting but in the long run I think it can be difficult as we just don't have a healthy enough player population to support so many presently. 
4. New Annex Placement Mode. The new mode for placing war structures and traps is great. 
5. New Stat Caps. The new caps feel great and give a clear line of progression for guilds to work towards. 

THE BAD
1. No Strategy & Randomize War End. The changes have forced the game into a single zerg down a fort strategy. Every war is basically the same. A guild takes the low timer fort, and a guild takes the ? fort - everyone zergs the ? fort because they want the most time PvPing. If it's held by a top guild everyone zergs the timer fort until they have to zerg the ? fort. Everyone just zergs and just intentionally feeds on the fort until it flips and hopes that they maintain control when the war randomly decides to end. Most people spend around an hour prepping for war - getting food buff rotations up, elixirs, buffs, etc. Last night we had a war that lasted only 26 minutes. Which felt awful. The randomized end should occur after the 1 hour mark onward at the very least if a randomized end is desired. 
2. Player Count Caps. Guilds and players have different schedules and availability. It would be better if the player count caps had some variance across the week in each tier respectively. 
3. Removal of Structures & Last Hit Meta. The removal of other structures like Recovery Centers and Barricades leave bases feeling empty, open, and pointless. It removes the strategic element of building and defending a base. This point references back to point 1 - No strategy. The fact that control is based on the guild who last hit the structure is ridiculous as well and just is not a viable design direction as it has zero strategy involved.
4. Structure Control at Fort & Fort HP.  Enemy guilds retaining control of offensive structures after a guild has taken control of a fort is terrible. This gives the previous occupiers a massive advantage especially considering how dramatically low the Fort HP is - which is exceedingly too low. 
5. Scoring. Scoring in general is still terrible and why Node Wars, and Seige for that matter, have not been updated to the same scoring system as AOS and Guild Leagues is beyond me. 

A MIDDLE GROUND SOLUTION 
It's clear what issues the developers are trying to address with this new system: 
1. Removal of politics and pre-scripted fights. 
2. Inability for top end guilds to ally together to prevent other guilds from having fun. 
3. Make NW more accessible and rewarding to more players. 

With this in mind, I think a potential solution would be to keep the new randomized placement and sign up system but return the old fort and annex design, no flipping, if your fort dies you are out. Place guilds randomly on the map, and make the node war an hour long at minimum. Obviously adjustments would be needed to respawn times, structure HP etc, to balance for the reduced time but as it stands the fort HP is exceedingly too low.  This will allow for strategic game play and base building (likely a short period to build the base at the start would need to be added - perhaps the time between the port in at xx:45 and the start on the hour.) Keep the rewards as is - everyone seems to agree they are great. Update and improve war scores with the AOS/GL systems. Finally, vary the player count caps throughout the week - this can even be randomized to prevent scripting - but having some T1s/T2s with 50 or 75 player caps could be fun, while conversely having some Uncapped or T2s with 30 or 50 player caps could also offer incentive to smaller guilds that are more progressed in the game or just allow for guilds that have gaps in player attendance on certain days of a given week. 

I think the new system offers some great solutions to outstanding problems with Node Wars in the game, however its implementation seems rushed, untested, and poorly thought out. It is a perfect example of too much change too fast. I sincerely hope that the developers consider making some much needed adjustments to this game mode as it stands, in my humble opinion, is not fun or enjoyable in any way. 
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 29. Mai 2024, 21:09 (UTC)
# 2

Yea I saw the idea of spawning every guild with a fort they already own somewhere and it seems interesting. There was an idea as well that the objective then would be to claim and hold as many forts as possible. The rewards would scale with the amount of forts your guild controls by the end of the nw while if you lose all forts you get a timer of lets say 15 minutes or whatever would be appropriate where you can get back into the game by claiming any of the forts before you are out completely. That tho would require to make nws 1h-2h. 

Another thing is the way forts change hands is completely goofy pve contest of who can 50/50 kill steal it. Idk how in what world or why this makes way to the pvp gamemode but ok. I guess PA is just full of PVE andys that just want to do their PVE rotation while pretending they are PvPing and that the whole thing is somehow exciting. I guess they just don't know any  better. I am sorry but I really struggle to understand their motivations here. It just doesn't make sense in it's current form. If there were only two sides fighting for any one fort and forts were tanky where they don't flip withing 20 seconds that then would make more sense. But it is just beyond nonsensical in its current form. Maybe it's time to go back to good old tried and tested capture the point system. Capture zone would be around the fort and then at least you want to kill the players in order to get the fort rather than just pveing the stick.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 29. Mai 2024, 21:16 (UTC)
# 3

Very much disasgree with the variance in attendance. I could get behind higher attendance limits on sunday but the rest of the week should be the same every day. From a GM perspective it is extremely hard to build a consistent and enthousiast core and forcing half of em to sit out or show up with 10 under the limit and get hyper farmed is very atrocious and leads to alot of frustration within a guild. Its not a good thing. It's way easier to build a 50 man core that gets to attend every day, obviously people miss out here and there but thats why there's a tiny waitinglist right?

edit: to further this point, the old system had this "variety" and it literally meant we had 30 people on waiting list on monday, but we couldnt trim down the alliance (either by kicking the trash or simply stop recruitment) because on other days we needed 20 if not all of those on friday and sunday. Similarly a cute 20 man t1 guild could only do nodewars twice a week because all the other days only had 35 or 50 in which they just get wrecked.

Do agree with alot of the other things you mentioned and overall i appreciate any actual feedback and ideas rather then just crying for revert and be all doom and gloom about it.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 29. Mai 2024, 21:52 (UTC)
# 4
On: May 29, 2024, 20:36 (UTC), Written by OccultOverload

Family Name: Occult Overload

Region (NA/EU): NA

Suggestions/Comments: 
The reality of the situation is that many players are displeased with the new Node War system recently implemented. I want to offer my constructive feedback on this system with potential practical solutions. Below I have outlined some things I feel work well in the new system, the good; and some things that do not work, the bad. In the end you will find a brief suggestion of a way I think the developers can blend the new and old systems together to make a much more enjoyable experience across the board. 

THE GOOD
1. Good Rewards.
They feel worth the effort and time and are beneficial to a myriad of different play styles.  
2. No Scripting. The fact that fights are no longer predetermined is great. This prevents the situation of the Cartel that is happening in KR as well as the same old boring fights that happen on NA. 
3. Bigger Maps & Randomized Forts. The larger format feels good for the most part and the randomization of forts is a great way to avoid those wars where people build on ridiculous terrain. The randomization between two regions is a good solution to prevent scripting but in the long run I think it can be difficult as we just don't have a healthy enough player population to support so many presently. 
4. New Annex Placement Mode. The new mode for placing war structures and traps is great. 
5. New Stat Caps. The new caps feel great and give a clear line of progression for guilds to work towards. 

THE BAD
1. No Strategy & Randomize War End. The changes have forced the game into a single zerg down a fort strategy. Every war is basically the same. A guild takes the low timer fort, and a guild takes the ? fort - everyone zergs the ? fort because they want the most time PvPing. If it's held by a top guild everyone zergs the timer fort until they have to zerg the ? fort. Everyone just zergs and just intentionally feeds on the fort until it flips and hopes that they maintain control when the war randomly decides to end. Most people spend around an hour prepping for war - getting food buff rotations up, elixirs, buffs, etc. Last night we had a war that lasted only 26 minutes. Which felt awful. The randomized end should occur after the 1 hour mark onward at the very least if a randomized end is desired. 
2. Player Count Caps. Guilds and players have different schedules and availability. It would be better if the player count caps had some variance across the week in each tier respectively. 
3. Removal of Structures & Last Hit Meta. The removal of other structures like Recovery Centers and Barricades leave bases feeling empty, open, and pointless. It removes the strategic element of building and defending a base. This point references back to point 1 - No strategy. The fact that control is based on the guild who last hit the structure is ridiculous as well and just is not a viable design direction as it has zero strategy involved.
4. Structure Control at Fort & Fort HP.  Enemy guilds retaining control of offensive structures after a guild has taken control of a fort is terrible. This gives the previous occupiers a massive advantage especially considering how dramatically low the Fort HP is - which is exceedingly too low. 
5. Scoring. Scoring in general is still terrible and why Node Wars, and Seige for that matter, have not been updated to the same scoring system as AOS and Guild Leagues is beyond me. 

A MIDDLE GROUND SOLUTION 
It's clear what issues the developers are trying to address with this new system: 
1. Removal of politics and pre-scripted fights. 
2. Inability for top end guilds to ally together to prevent other guilds from having fun. 
3. Make NW more accessible and rewarding to more players. 

With this in mind, I think a potential solution would be to keep the new randomized placement and sign up system but return the old fort and annex design, no flipping, if your fort dies you are out. Place guilds randomly on the map, and make the node war an hour long at minimum. Obviously adjustments would be needed to respawn times, structure HP etc, to balance for the reduced time but as it stands the fort HP is exceedingly too low.  This will allow for strategic game play and base building (likely a short period to build the base at the start would need to be added - perhaps the time between the port in at xx:45 and the start on the hour.) Keep the rewards as is - everyone seems to agree they are great. Update and improve war scores with the AOS/GL systems. Finally, vary the player count caps throughout the week - this can even be randomized to prevent scripting - but having some T1s/T2s with 50 or 75 player caps could be fun, while conversely having some Uncapped or T2s with 30 or 50 player caps could also offer incentive to smaller guilds that are more progressed in the game or just allow for guilds that have gaps in player attendance on certain days of a given week. 

I think the new system offers some great solutions to outstanding problems with Node Wars in the game, however its implementation seems rushed, untested, and poorly thought out. It is a perfect example of too much change too fast. I sincerely hope that the developers consider making some much needed adjustments to this game mode as it stands, in my humble opinion, is not fun or enjoyable in any way. 

Having a mix of the old and the new nw system is the best idea. 
Having random locations and non scripted fights is great, but we need to get back to the old fort system and with old structures (stop randomly nerfing them). If you die you're out. 
I do believe it would also be better to cap a region first (or having a threshold), and then start to fill the other.

Lv Privat
Agarus
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 29. Mai 2024, 22:29 (UTC)
# 5

I'm just gonna say the obvious, but you put random forts and killing guilds and u'll just get politics done in the 15 minutes before start when u find what region you are in. The smaller guilds will be scrambling and begging eachother to zerg out the strong and the strong will be forced to band together so they dont get 5v1ed or something, will eventually devolve into the same as we had before but with rng on top.

More than anything, if you're randomly placed near one of the strong guilds your nodewar might just end in 5 minutes, even less sometimes, strong guilds can kill forts really fast if they want to even through low respawn timers

The new system is fun and works for balenos/serendia because there's a lot of guilds and forts and players arent as coordinated, but every other cap thrived through politics to make good fights and try to include as many guilds as possible into a somewhat balanced deal, in an effort to make sure the strong guilds arent just freely running down the weaker ones as soon as the war starts

Personally, do whatever improvements are needed to make this system even better for balenos/serendia and the new guilds/players, but revert everything else to the old system, veteran guilds for the most part all preffered the old system and setup fights. I don't think I've had a single fun nodewar on Calpheon/Kama yet, they all were just a lot of sitting around doing nothing

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 30. Mai 2024, 01:28 (UTC)
# 6
On: May 29, 2024, 22:29 (UTC), Written by ChickenSan

I'm just gonna say the obvious, but you put random forts and killing guilds and u'll just get politics done in the 15 minutes before start when u find what region you are in. The smaller guilds will be scrambling and begging eachother to zerg out the strong and the strong will be forced to band together so they dont get 5v1ed or something, will eventually devolve into the same as we had before but with rng on top.

More than anything, if you're randomly placed near one of the strong guilds your nodewar might just end in 5 minutes, even less sometimes, strong guilds can kill forts really fast if they want to even through low respawn timers

The new system is fun and works for balenos/serendia because there's a lot of guilds and forts and players arent as coordinated, but every other cap thrived through politics to make good fights and try to include as many guilds as possible into a somewhat balanced deal, in an effort to make sure the strong guilds arent just freely running down the weaker ones as soon as the war starts

Personally, do whatever improvements are needed to make this system even better for balenos/serendia and the new guilds/players, but revert everything else to the old system, veteran guilds for the most part all preffered the old system and setup fights. I don't think I've had a single fun nodewar on Calpheon/Kama yet, they all were just a lot of sitting around doing nothing

Woah Woah hey now, us balenos/serendia dwellers don't like this shit either!

Lv Privat
Ryaekar
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 30. Mai 2024, 02:31 (UTC)
# 7
On: May 30, 2024, 01:28 (UTC), Written by BBrutus

Woah Woah hey now, us balenos/serendia dwellers don't like this shit either!

Really? I'm on a t1 guild on NA cause don't have gear for more, did all 4 wars since sunday and it feels fun/better than before, but its also cause my guild pretty much just got zerged every war in the past cause too strong

On EU I did 3 uncapped wars and legit had like 1 fourth of the pvp of Balenos/Serendia and basically no fun.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 30. Mai 2024, 22:34 (UTC)
# 8
On: May 30, 2024, 02:31 (UTC), Written by ChickenSan

Really? I'm on a t1 guild on NA cause don't have gear for more, did all 4 wars since sunday and it feels fun/better than before, but its also cause my guild pretty much just got zerged every war in the past cause too strong

On EU I did 3 uncapped wars and legit had like 1 fourth of the pvp of Balenos/Serendia and basically no fun.

Everyone has different experiences. The biggest problem with the previous Bal/Ser scene was politics disalowing new guilds from playing which is an issue I address in my post. 

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