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UTC 11 : 43 07. Feb 2025
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#Meinung #Darstellungselemente
[Suggestion] Evolution of PvP Statistics
09. Okt 2024, 01:51 (UTC)
1738 7
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 09. Okt 2024, 01:53 (UTC)
# 1

Family Name: AmmoCache

Region (NA/EU): NA

Suggestions/Comments:

A lot of people pay attention to kills in PvP. That is just a no brainer statement that can be made without a second thought. The problem is, the current system makes it so "kill steals" are more rewarded than actual participation. For example, an Archer sitting at the back of a group left clicking repeatedly can pull 200-300 kills in a war/siege because someone else is doing 99% of the damage and the Archer's basic attack is faster than that other classes animation and snags the kill. That makes it look like the Archer is a vital resource in your war team, when in reality it was the Berserker diving into the frontlines doing that first 99% of the damage. But instead that Berserker has a measely 4 kills for all his hard work.

First Suggestion: I think tracking Killing Blows is fine, but I think there should also be a method of tracking Kill Contribution.

If you do 90% of the damage to a target and someone else dives in and snags the kill, I think that kill should be awarded to the person who did the 90% of the work in that fight. Whether it be through the standard kill tracking we have now, or have an additional field added for Kill Contribution that keeps track of kills that occurred where you did the majority of the damage. Not only would it help get a better feel of who is putting in effort in guild PvP, but it'd also help individual players see if they're doing a good job on that front. Nothing is more disheartening than spending a couple hours sweating like a madman through a war just to see that all the work you did left you with a 2 kill / 3 death war score because JohnnyBowFingers on the backline was eating a pizza with his pinky toe on the left mousebutton. I do also think this change could help PA determine balancing changes needed for classes in PvP, as they could see who had the majority of the contribution (who is overtuned).

Second Suggestion: I think the Arena of Solare statistics of Damage Dealt/Damage Taken/Healing Done should be implemented for ALL PvP content.

While learning my class in PvP, I like using Solare as a benchmark to determine if I'm playing effectively in small fights. If I see that I only had 1 kill, but had 140,000 damage done, while the person under me had 6 kills with 40,000 damage done, it lets me know that my lack of kills was NOT because I wasn't doing well. It was because that other person just happened to get the killing blows from me. That sort of information was really helpful in me developing my PvP abilities in the game, and I think it would be exponentially more helpful to have it in PvP situations that actually matter (no offense intended for AoS Enjoyers).

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 09. Okt 2024, 06:49 (UTC)
# 2

Ah no you are wrong, no one and I mean no one uses auto attacks in pvp that's bunch delusion somehow you made yourself believe in... Berserker is not doing 99% of the job and Archer has probably quadruples the berserker when it comes to damage. Last hit just as important as doing the 90% of the damage at the end it's all about killing the target with your allies and if that's successfully done then you made job done. One thing I can agree is the stats yeah, game should track the stats in pvp 

31 231
Lv 66
CCaJJ
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 09. Okt 2024, 07:17 (UTC)
# 3
On: Oct 9, 2024, 06:49 (UTC), Written by CCaJJ

Ah no you are wrong, no one and I mean no one uses auto attacks in pvp that's bunch delusion somehow you made yourself believe in... Berserker is not doing 99% of the job and Archer has probably quadruples the berserker when it comes to damage. Last hit just as important as doing the 90% of the damage at the end it's all about killing the target with your allies and if that's successfully done then you made job done. One thing I can agree is the stats yeah, game should track the stats in pvp 


"Just as" being the key words when you said 'just as important'.  You're saying it's equally important, and yet 100% of the reward for a kill goes to the person who last hit, and it's as if the person who did 51-99% of the damage, got the initial CC and had a killing blow on the way before the person would stand and escape did nothing and gets no credit.

OP isn't asking for killing blows to stop being tracked if you read the post.  He's simply asking for additional info to be shown on the scoreboards so that people can better track how much they are actually contributing.  Something plenty of others have asked for in the past.

If you haven't noticed this happening to you, it means you're not getting very many catches, don't know how to combo very well or are plain unobservant.  Yoinking last hits (oftentimes when someone else was going to finish the kill anyways) is a massive part of what 'fraggers' in node wars are doing.

10 42
Lv Privat
Dree
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 10. Okt 2024, 00:46 (UTC)
# 4
On: Oct 9, 2024, 06:49 (UTC), Written by CCaJJ

Ah no you are wrong, no one and I mean no one uses auto attacks in pvp that's bunch delusion somehow you made yourself believe in... Berserker is not doing 99% of the job and Archer has probably quadruples the berserker when it comes to damage. Last hit just as important as doing the 90% of the damage at the end it's all about killing the target with your allies and if that's successfully done then you made job done. One thing I can agree is the stats yeah, game should track the stats in pvp 

Aside from having the leading place in the "missing the point" competition, I do agree that Archers do a lot in PvP. That comment/joke in the original post was merely making a reference that the person doing 1% of the work on a kill, whatever class they may be playing, shouldn't be given 100% of the kill in the statistics. In my opinion, the last hit is what matters the LEAST when it comes to contribution in a fight.

Like Mlem mentioned, landing the initial CC, following up, and stopping someone from escaping all matter significantly more than being the Sage that just jumps into a fight at the last moment to drop a plasma screen TV to yoink the kills from your guildies.

Before you miss the point on this one as well, this is the point I'm making with that jab: Some classes are burdened by slower animations, but hit significantly harder. So the classes with slower animations shouldn't be punished in the statistics when they could be putting in twice the effort (or even more) of the ones top fragging.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 10. Okt 2024, 07:56 (UTC)
# 5

I think statistics for CC's, damage dealt and Kills/Deaths would be fine. The problem is that everyone will jump that meta train for whatever class performs best at its zenith. And Idk how they'd be able to still get variety after that happens lol

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 11. Okt 2024, 17:22 (UTC)
# 6
On: Oct 10, 2024, 07:56 (UTC), Written by howwas

I think statistics for CC's, damage dealt and Kills/Deaths would be fine. The problem is that everyone will jump that meta train for whatever class performs best at its zenith. And Idk how they'd be able to still get variety after that happens lol

Unfortunately you are correct on that. In any game the moment something is seen as "powerful" in any setting, you'll have about 30-40% of the community that jumps to it immediately to pull the best numbers possible. This game is a job to them and they want to ride each meta to its grave. There's a reason communities came up with a Derogatory Term for those such players (it rhymes with Feta Dumpers), and why a lot of people look down on them and their playstyle.

PA has a horrible habit of releasing classes in an EXTREMELY overtuned state, despite rigorous global labs testing and heaps of feedback. Dosa is yet another example of that where they released it with its succession and it immediately was classified as an S++ grinder pulling significantly more trash than any other class in the game. They NEED to start paying attention before pushing content. The goal with the additional statistics would be to have actual numbers where we can show, "Hey, This Guardian pulled 140k Damage, which is good, but this Dosa just pulled 1.2 Million damage. There's something SERIOUSLY wrong here."

There was a period in the game where there was no such thing as a "Good Awakening Musa" in my eyes (and in the eyes of several people I know from back then, including an Awakening Musa main) because they could just run in, hit you with one Projection, and you'd fall over. There was ZERO actual skill involved with pulling kills on that class in wars at the time.

Same goes for Succ Ninja when it was the current meta, I tried out Succ Ninja when I was trying to find my class identity and made a joke that it seemed like all they had to do was mash their keyboard and they'd get kills. So I went into BA with a buddy of mine, and quite literally started smacking my keyboard and killed him.

In those cases, we'd just have to hope that PA actually pays attention and puts forth the effort to properly balance those classes. There is a lot of potential with every class and spec in the game, if they'd just give them the love they deserve.

One of my favorite specs to play for the longest time was Succ Striker, mostly because of the simplicity of it and because beating things down with my bare hands was just a fun concept in an MMO, but it just kept falling more and more behind through various nerfs and changes to where it wasn't really good unless you were 1v1ing someone or doing a lower-tier grind spot. Not only that, it started getting to where it didn't FEEL good to play anymore either. Eventually, every time I played all I'd hear is, "Just swap to Awakening. Awakening is so much better." but that's exactly what I didn't want to do. I didn't like the style or feel of Awakening. One spec shouldn't be so far above the other spec that the only viable choice is to swap. They should be almost equal to one another and actually allow the player to be able to CHOOSE based on what they're more comfortable with. Obviously every class is going to have areas where it excels over another, whether it's mobility, raw damage, attack speed, etc.. But those differences shouldn't make a class only viable in a small niche part of the game. It should be viable to some extent in ALL aspects of the game.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that everyone should be able to pick the class that fits their preferred playstyle the best and enjoy themselves on this game. If Succ Ninja is the best mobility in the game, then people who like being hyper mobile should be able to flock to that class and do all of the content in the game with it (provided they have the gear, learn the combos, etc.). If people like playing Support/Healer style characters, then they should be able to Shai their little hearts out without just being buff monkeys for people. Like, someday I hope Shai isn't ONLY useful for buffs and CC in wars and actually is able to run around and get kills provided they play well enough. I just think it'd be a great thing for the community if the top "war score" of each war wasn't the same class week after week after week.

Overall, I think the game would feel so much better if everyone was able to play what they enjoyed, rather than "what's best right now". Ever since Scholar released, no other class has felt "fun" to me. I like jumping around with that massive hammer and smacking enemies. The sound effects of the "BONG" noise when you hit things is fantastic, and it's encouraged me to actually use the gear that I've earned and try out various grind spots in the game that I never would have tried with a class I wasn't comfortable with. It may not be the absolute best in PvP, but I don't care because I am just having that much fun with the class. I still pull a few kills in war and do what I can to fill my role in the group.

I love this game, and I would love to see this game's community come back and get invested again. But they NEED to start paying attention and putting forth some legitimate effort if they want that to happen. Anyways, that's the end of my TED Talk. Sorry for the long post lol

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 11. Okt 2024, 23:57 (UTC)
# 7

Besides temp titles and bragging rights, topping the kills doesn't increase your reward at all. Adding all the other stats too is probably fine, as if nothing else, it might help some classes point out where they excel or fall behind, or let guilds better compare members.

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