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#Allgemeines_Gameplay
Fundamental problems with Karma Servers.
13. Jun 2021, 02:31 (UTC)
15448 730
1 2 3 4 5 ... 79
Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 07:46 (UTC)
# 11
On: Jun 13, 2021, 07:30 (UTC), Written by Werbs

Maybe you should go back and actually read the post, Karma Bombing was only a small portion and a symptom of a bigger problem.  But hey I guess you can only focus on 1 aspect of a conversation while ignoring all others.

 

As for the PvP death timer, I would suggest a progressively stacking timer, first death maybe there isn't a Timer, 2nd death is like 15 seconds, 3rd is like 2 minutes, and ever increasing until it gets to 30 minutes, after a little bit people would realize that body throwing, while an effective way to destroy an opponent's Karma, is really a boring experience, and that the player they are "bombing" is recovering Karma faster than they can bomb it.  I also suggested that a Release to Storage be used instead releaste to "Safe Zone" because most if not all of the "safe zones" are still combat areas.

 

Random killing of weak, afk, or Life skilling characters would still continue, how does one avoid this problem by simply going to Arsha, that is the reason the Go to Arsha argument was specifically taken off the Table.  Players feeding other players to Mobs also will not stop by simply swapping to Arsha, yet another reason Arsha was taken completely off the Table.  Even if you kill someone invading your grind spot on Arsha, the offending player just returns from the node that is 2 steps away, a problem that doesn't go away by swapping to Arsha.

 

Does this explain why "Go To Arsha" is an invalid response?

why don't you ask to get arsha changed to what you want, versus ruining the game for the rest of us.  Fix arsha for your pet peeves then go to arsha

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 07:48 (UTC)
# 12
On: Jun 13, 2021, 07:30 (UTC), Written by Werbs

Maybe you should go back and actually read the post, Karma Bombing was only a small portion and a symptom of a bigger problem.  But hey I guess you can only focus on 1 aspect of a conversation while ignoring all others.

 

As for the PvP death timer, I would suggest a progressively stacking timer, first death maybe there isn't a Timer, 2nd death is like 15 seconds, 3rd is like 2 minutes, and ever increasing until it gets to 30 minutes, after a little bit people would realize that body throwing, while an effective way to destroy an opponent's Karma, is really a boring experience, and that the player they are "bombing" is recovering Karma faster than they can bomb it.  I also suggested that a Release to Storage be used instead releaste to "Safe Zone" because most if not all of the "safe zones" are still combat areas.

 

Random killing of weak, afk, or Life skilling characters would still continue, how does one avoid this problem by simply going to Arsha, that is the reason the Go to Arsha argument was specifically taken off the Table.  Players feeding other players to Mobs also will not stop by simply swapping to Arsha, yet another reason Arsha was taken completely off the Table.  Even if you kill someone invading your grind spot on Arsha, the offending player just returns from the node that is 2 steps away, a problem that doesn't go away by swapping to Arsha.

 

Does this explain why "Go To Arsha" is an invalid response?

the time stacking nonsense will be so badly abused, it's not even funny.  Imagine griefing players who are minding their own business by locking them into safe zones.  Terrible, idea.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 21. Jun 2021, 22:17 (UTC)
# 13
On: Jun 13, 2021, 07:06 (UTC), Written by Unknownn

curious to read the answer

his kind doesn't want to face geared players and want to be able to infect all other servers with the ability to kill low geared players and push them from the map entirely.  really selfish.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 07:50 (UTC)
# 14
On: Jun 13, 2021, 02:31 (UTC), Written by Werbs

No, Arsha is not a solution, any mention of Arsha is derailment of the topic at hand, which is the glaring holes in the Karma System on Karma servers.

 

Right now on Karma Servers there are a few problems.

 

1, The karma system doesn't protect weak players and life skillers from being randomly killed outside of grind zones while afk or auto pathing by random bullies.

2, The karma system doesn't protect anyone grinding from Karma Bombers that want to muscle in on a grind spot by a weaker player, most often done by guildless players.

3, The Karma System does not protect against mob feeding, which usually happens as a result of the aforementioned Karma Bombers.

 

These 3 glaring holes are a huge problem with BDO today.

 

1.

Starting with the first problem, protecting weaker or life skilling players.  Often times the ability to fight back is gone because by the time you get back after auto pathing between towns, AFK horse training, or AFK fishing the offender is long gone.  Yeah that player lost Karma but since no one was around to see it, no one can help, this is akin to killing a stray kitten for no good reason.  While this rarely happens, nothing in the Karma system protects a player from this random abuse.

 

There has to be a better way to protect these players from random acts of violence.

 

2.

Karma Bombers, these players for the purpose this thread are defined as a player that doesn't make any effort to resolve a conflict over a grind spot, be it the other player was there first or not.  Often times they remove gear to dump the Karma of the other player faster after they have been grinding in the face of someone who had been there for a while, usually they are Guildless so there is no action that can be taken such as a guild war.  This means the other player has a few choices, each one of them he loses.

 

A, he can swap and risk becoming the person he just had an issue with.

B, he can change characters if the Channel Swap is down, but that cuts into his time as well.

C, he can kill the other player, losing his own karma, but that other player can just return with zero penalty to himself moments later due to Pearl items and the proximity to the spawn nodes.

D, he can group with the other player, cutting his own income in half or worse.

E, He can try and talk to the other player, but usually this person flat out ignores everything.

F, he can try and out grind the player, but this also cuts his own income in half or worse.

G, He can feed the other player to mobs, an act which many consider an Exploit as well.

Not a single one of these options is a good option.

The only real valid solution to this would be stacking death timers for PvP death and/or allowing unguilded players to have a war declaired directly on them, or better yet make unguilded players result in no Karma loss all together, but that would pose a bigger problem for the victims of problem 1.

 

3.

Mob feeding, I feel this deserves it's own topic all on it's own, because it is not always linked to trying to get rid of Karma Bombers, but it is also related to scenario 1, by which a player goes to mid-end range grind spots and just CCs random players with the intent of having the Mobs finish them off and breaking crystals of others and causeing XP loss.

 

There is a simple solution to this one, if a player has been attacked by another player within 10 seconds and dies the player that died should have that death treated as a PvP death, If the player that got attacked dies within 5 seconds of being attacked the attacking player should occur any Karma penalties or get GvG kill score credit attributed to him, This should go for every player attacking the player that died, and not be limited to 1 attacker, however the GvG score should only count as 1 per guild.

 

One of the biggest changes that needs to happen is that any of the current Karma affected fights IE not Duels or GvGs, the ability to release to node should be disabled, and release to Town should be the nearest Storage Node, not other random nodes, or the Release to node should apply like it does to a Red player, by which they randomly spawn at nearby nodes instead of always spawning at the nearest one, PvP death should mean something that does not cause permanent penalties to the player that died, but is more than the very minor inconvienence that it is now.

 

 

#1 is a made up problem, put there only to make it look like you care about low geared players, lol

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 11:33 (UTC)
# 15
On: Jun 13, 2021, 07:30 (UTC), Written by Werbs

 

Does this explain why "Go To Arsha" is an invalid response?

Why dont your advocate to have Arsha be changed then if its this ( according to your says ) horrible ?

Why do i see no players here trying to change arsha if its this horrible and bad ?

 

It is very curious.

On: Jun 13, 2021, 07:30 (UTC), Written by Werbs

 1 aspect of a conversation while ignoring all others.

That's your topic, with different points, i can focus on the point of my choosing.

till sidestep the question. where is the mindcontrol in BDO to have -karmabombing- really exist ?

 

The real problem is that you just dont like see pk use not allow you to rule over grind spot. if its like that for years, its certainly because PA doesnt want that to be a thing.

 

BDO is just not the -owpvp- game you want to play.

 

And no timer will work, nor anything else, already answered this part. Go read again.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 08:14 (UTC)
# 16

the solution are the many asked pve servers. just servers without pk, guildwars can still exist.

not to mention forcing different playstyles upon players is utter bad gamedesign to begin with.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 08:14 (UTC)
# 17
On: Jun 13, 2021, 02:31 (UTC), Written by Werbs

No, Arsha is not a solution, any mention of Arsha is derailment of the topic at hand, which is the glaring holes in the Karma System on Karma servers.

 

Right now on Karma Servers there are a few problems.

 

1, The karma system doesn't protect weak players and life skillers from being randomly killed outside of grind zones while afk or auto pathing by random bullies.

2, The karma system doesn't protect anyone grinding from Karma Bombers that want to muscle in on a grind spot by a weaker player, most often done by guildless players.

3, The Karma System does not protect against mob feeding, which usually happens as a result of the aforementioned Karma Bombers.

 

These 3 glaring holes are a huge problem with BDO today.

 

1.

Starting with the first problem, protecting weaker or life skilling players.  Often times the ability to fight back is gone because by the time you get back after auto pathing between towns, AFK horse training, or AFK fishing the offender is long gone.  Yeah that player lost Karma but since no one was around to see it, no one can help, this is akin to killing a stray kitten for no good reason.  While this rarely happens, nothing in the Karma system protects a player from this random abuse.

 

There has to be a better way to protect these players from random acts of violence.

 

2.

Karma Bombers, these players for the purpose this thread are defined as a player that doesn't make any effort to resolve a conflict over a grind spot, be it the other player was there first or not.  Often times they remove gear to dump the Karma of the other player faster after they have been grinding in the face of someone who had been there for a while, usually they are Guildless so there is no action that can be taken such as a guild war.  This means the other player has a few choices, each one of them he loses.

 

A, he can swap and risk becoming the person he just had an issue with.

B, he can change characters if the Channel Swap is down, but that cuts into his time as well.

C, he can kill the other player, losing his own karma, but that other player can just return with zero penalty to himself moments later due to Pearl items and the proximity to the spawn nodes.

D, he can group with the other player, cutting his own income in half or worse.

E, He can try and talk to the other player, but usually this person flat out ignores everything.

F, he can try and out grind the player, but this also cuts his own income in half or worse.

G, He can feed the other player to mobs, an act which many consider an Exploit as well.

Not a single one of these options is a good option.

The only real valid solution to this would be stacking death timers for PvP death and/or allowing unguilded players to have a war declaired directly on them, or better yet make unguilded players result in no Karma loss all together, but that would pose a bigger problem for the victims of problem 1.

 

3.

Mob feeding, I feel this deserves it's own topic all on it's own, because it is not always linked to trying to get rid of Karma Bombers, but it is also related to scenario 1, by which a player goes to mid-end range grind spots and just CCs random players with the intent of having the Mobs finish them off and breaking crystals of others and causeing XP loss.

 

There is a simple solution to this one, if a player has been attacked by another player within 10 seconds and dies the player that died should have that death treated as a PvP death, If the player that got attacked dies within 5 seconds of being attacked the attacking player should occur any Karma penalties or get GvG kill score credit attributed to him, This should go for every player attacking the player that died, and not be limited to 1 attacker, however the GvG score should only count as 1 per guild.

 

One of the biggest changes that needs to happen is that any of the current Karma affected fights IE not Duels or GvGs, the ability to release to node should be disabled, and release to Town should be the nearest Storage Node, not other random nodes, or the Release to node should apply like it does to a Red player, by which they randomly spawn at nearby nodes instead of always spawning at the nearest one, PvP death should mean something that does not cause permanent penalties to the player that died, but is more than the very minor inconvienence that it is now.

 

 

Why not be honest here? All you want is a way to be able to grind without interruption. Sounds selfish to me just as you say it is selfish for others to want open world pvp removed from some servers. 

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 08:31 (UTC)
# 18
On: Jun 13, 2021, 08:14 (UTC), Written by Altos

Why not be honest here? All you want is a way to be able to grind without interruption. Sounds selfish to me just as you say it is selfish for others to want open world pvp removed from some servers. 

That is only part of it, annother huge part is that PvP death means absoultely nothing.  PvP death in every game I have ever seen has some sort of penalty, so you have a drive to actually stay alive, where as BDO has the exact opposite problem, if faced with PvP at a grind spot it's actually beneficial to die as fast as you can and use your own death as a weapon against the person attacking you.  When you are grinding it's actually against your own best interest to fight back until you can turn the other player red or they run out of Karma and decide they have to ignore you.  However if you are just pathing between towns, AFK fishing, AFK horse Training, or just out gathering, that same system that protected a weak player at a Grind spot is no longer a hinderance to the person killing them and provides zero protection to said player.  If a person is on a horse or wagon and that wagon or horse is destroyed it actually costs some silver to replace it, and if there were Trade items on the Wagon/horse they break, Also the wagon can end up in a random stable all over the Map, I have had my Wagon pop up from Stary Port all the way to Arehaza and many stables in between, despite my Forest Path or the character that had it, never going to either one of those Stables.

 

The Karma system is not only flawed it is broken, because it protects the weak when they should not need protection which is at Grind spots, and it does nothing to help the weak when they actually need protection in all other situations.

 

The players fighting so hard against fixing the Karma systems are likely the ones using the Karma system as a weapon in the one instance it was not intended to be used for, while ignoring all the times that the Karma system should be used to protect players but fails to do so.  Usually these players use fallacious agruments in a veiled attempted to deflect away from the problems the Karma System and Karma Servers have, each one of the arguments used in bad faith.

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Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 08:40 (UTC)
# 19
On: Jun 13, 2021, 08:29 (UTC), Written by Werbs

That is only part of it, annother huge part is that PvP death means absoultely nothing.  PvP death in every game I have ever seen has some sort of penalty, so you have a drive to actually stay alive, where as BDO has the exact opposite problem, if faced with PvP at a grind spot it's actually beneficial to die as fast as you can and use your own death as a weapon against the person attacking you.  When you are grinding it's actually against your own best interest to fight back until you can turn the other player red or they run out of Karma and decide they have to ignore you.  However if you are just pathing between towns, AFK fishing, AFK horse Training, or just out gathering, that same system that protected a weak player at a Grind spot is no longer a hinderance to the person killing them and provides zero protection to said player.  If a person is on a horse or wagon and that wagon or horse is destroyed it actually costs some silver to replace it, and if there were Trade items on the Wagon/horse they break, Also the wagon can end up in a random stable all over the Map, I have had my Wagon pop up from Stary Port all the way to Arehaza and many stables in between, despite my Forest Path or the character that had it, never going to either one of those Stables.

 

The Karma system is not only flawed it is broken, because it protects the weak when they should not need protection which is at Grind spots, and it does nothing to help the weak when they actually need protection in all other situations.

 

The players fighting so hard against fixing the Karma systems are likely the ones using the Karma system as a weapon in the one instance it was not intended to be used for, while ignoring all the times that the Karma system should be used to protect players but fails to do so.  Usually these players use fallacious agruments in a veiled attempted to deflect away from the problems the Karma System and Karma Servers have, each one of the arguments used in bad faith.

then go play those other games.  pvp deaths causing punishment is toxic and leads to griefing.  The karma system is fine, no matter how much you whine about it.  If you don't like it go to arsha.  Karma doesn't degrade there.  No one forcing you to flag, so it isn't possible to use karma as a weapon.  YOu commit karmacide.  stop crying.

Zeitpunkt der letzten Änderungen : 13. Jun 2021, 10:18 (UTC)
# 20
On: Jun 13, 2021, 08:29 (UTC), Written by Werbs

That is only part of it, annother huge part is that PvP death means absoultely nothing. 

This part is very logic, the game isnt meant to cater pker. Therefore you are not going to have penalty for -pvp death- when a lot of players do not play BDO for the pk.

It would be a real counterproductive move from PA, and they perfectly understood that, as, you can see : pk don't permit players to rule over a grind spot.

 

You seem to refuse the evidence. No wonder you seem offended if you are stuck with the idea of a BDO being a -owpvp centric game-

I will tell you the same thing once more : BDO don't seem to be the game with -owpvp- you want to play

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