Hello everyone,

With the Arena of Arsha PVP tournament coming, I've been thinking about what could the winner give as feedback to PearlAbyss to make the class better.

While I didn't have the time or will to participate in the tournament and I think my gear is a bit lacking for the first round, it doesn't make me less interested in giving my opinion about the class. 

Disclaimer : I am far from being a god at PvP or anything and nowadays I mostly grind, duel and RBF, so all I can do is cover the issues I think I've identified about the class.

The state of DK : 

I've been playing the class since release and DK back then was really something else. A monstrosity to a lot of other classes that could only be beaten by desync or bad decisions from the DK player. Since then, with the CC/Protection changes, which hit the DK quite hard, it pretty much went downhill with the addition of the striker and mystic and the few other changes that came after. 

But time passes, gear increases, meta changes and new classes coming. The DK has never recovered from that period and is now in a weird state where you need a lot of AP to do what other classes can do efficiently. And core skills made some awakening matchups even worse.

And then, the addition of succession... And to be completely honest, while it was strong on release and nerfed shortly after, it was quite the heartbreak for a lot of people. Why? Well, because in order to play succession you'd have to gut your skillset by almost half and for what people considered as some long-time requested QoL changes to the pre-awakening kit. But at the time (me included), DK players were so starved for changes to be made to the class that they just accepted the succession and embraced it. While it was a clear cut in the viability of DK in many aspects of the game, it offered some really nice damage compared to the awakening and the ability to "cancel" a lot of the GAPS and unprotected skills that you'd have to use if you were to play with your pre-awakening. You no longer had the possibility to poke or CC from afar but you had the burst potential to be an assassin dive in, you now had a few cancel animations and the class felt faster to play overall which made it harder for some classes to fight us back and more enjoyable for us to play. 

Split identity : 

And that's where the first problem comes for me. You now have 2 specs that share a part of the same skillset but are not designed to achieve the same thing.

- The pre-awakening skill set is your melee kit basically providing you movements and CC. This is the getting in and evading style, landing some quick CCs in between gameplay.

- And, on the other side, the awakening skillset gives you some nice range damage, some great protection but really few CCs. This is your range kit basically completing your pre-awakening and giving you the possibility to still affect the game without putting your face in the melee. 

Some would argue that since awakening has the pre-awakening too, the class can still play in melee range. While a bit true, it's also at the cost of all the QoL changes that succession made to the class, and the damage of absolute skills is really lackluster compared to succession. Plus the risk of you getting CCed increases by 500%.

And DK is the only class (with Ranger) that pretty much has 2 really distinct playstyles and that the succession forces to choose an almost different class to play. 

Now what, we have a class that fulfills 2 roles but has the same class-to-class PVP modifiers... So they can't buff succession DK by giving some beefy stats or some damages without touching the awakening if they choose to do it that way. But awakening is already so safe so they can't give it some defensive stats and then it has range so they can't really give it too much damage. If I would be PearlAbyss, that's clearly a bad call because it's harder to balance.

So I'm left out with the possibility to change one or the other spec and buff them independently which further exacerbates the different playstyles of the 2 skillsets... And to me, that's clearly what those PvE buffs today really show.

Talking about PvE, let's deep dive really quick into the different aspects of the game for both specs.

PvE state :

Regarding PvE, I really feel like succession and awakening almost have the same problem. To me, when I play succession it feels like I have a few hard-hitting skills, and then I'm just doing filler skills until I have those hard-hitting skills again. It makes the class really cooldowns gated in that regard and while PearlAbyss is buffing some of those skills today, to me you will still be waiting on those cooldowns (even more now). Not even mentioning that your hard-hitting skills are static super armors which leaves the room for a lot of hits/damage to be taken (have fun trying out Ash forest on succession DK) or even GAPS which let mobs CC you quite often.

For awakening (while I didn't play it much recently), it's almost the same, you have some really hard-hitting skills in awakening but when you used them all, you're left with some subpar skills such as Spirit Blaze or some pre-awakening skills which hits like wet noodles in PvE. And you're once again waiting for those cooldowns to come back. While you're clearly safer in PvE regarding damage taken, it's dealing a bit less damage than the succession counterpart (as of writing this).

PvP state :

Now about what I think about DK in PvP.

First, I think that DK in group PvP doesn't fit any role specifically. By that I mean, the class isn't the best at anything, she's not the best at doing range damage, she's not the best at doing melee damage, she's not the best at flanking, she's not the best at staying alive, she's not the best at getting in-and-out... Really the class isn't the best at anything which asks a question : Why would you ever pick a DK over another class in group PvP? To me, that's already a big problem but if she was at least a tiny bit worse that would be fine... But she's not even close to other classes on certain aspects... Not wanting to elaborate too much on that but you see what I mean.

Second, while it may have made sense at the time to design the class with GAPS in her protection due to the nature of PvP back when almost all the skills had either a CC, protection or both, in today's standards why does DK can fall in-between her 2 iframes, why does DK have 2 GAPS on Wheel of Fortune and why does the class barely have any lingering on her skills? In a game where a LOT of classes have a grab, why can't DK have a functional defensive kit which will not even save her from those grabs but at the very least will make her less frustrating to play...

Third, like many other classes, a lot of our skills are legitimately unusable in PvP (and PvE most of the time as well)

Pre-awakening : Sudden Attack, Darkness Burst, Repeated annihilation (i see you Q flexing with it but it's just for the giggles), Corrupt ground, Spirit Satiation, Scarring slash, Vedir's dogma, Imperious command and Luscious snare (this last one could be good if it was working consistently... maybe tho I'm not sure, it's kinda random).

Awakening : Touch of exploitation (yeah I know back+lmb for most classes is trash too), Soul snatch and Grip of grudge. I didn't include Spirit blaze and Cluster of Despair because they have some niche uses that work well.

BSR skills are completely useless since they added core skills.

All 3 Rabams are default choices

Succession PvP

Starting off with succession. Considered by many as the "pre-awakening kit fix" we all wanted, it's not even fixing every problem that the class had. Basically, the succession is a QoL patch of the pre-awakening that allows you to cancel some parts of your animations with Dusk to prevents yourself from getting CCed in your skills. Cause yes, that's what we're talking about... Instead of making our protections go for the entire duration of the skills like everyone was suggesting, they made it so that you CAN cancel the unprotected parts of your skills. And that's at the condition of using your best evading tool to do so... And to be honest, it's not that bad, it feels really good to play and to be able to Dusk at any time... BUT why does it have to be our succession? 

Regarding group PvP, like I said DK isn't the best at anything even in succession and while she can dish out some good damage, there is really no reason to pick succession over awakening in that type of content. The class isn't able to stay in fights for long, she doesn't have the best burst, she doesn't have the best CCs, she doesn't have the best engage and you'll just end up getting blasted by some wizards that didn't even notice you were there or get CCed instantly. You can still play her as a skirmisher and pick up opponents on the sides of the fights.

Regarding 1v1, succession DK is alright, it's not great but you can do some work. You have some great mobility, good CCs and enough damage to kill most classes... Unless they have a super armor block (warriors, guardians...), you can win most matches, though classes with grabs are a lot harder to fight because they can just do it in your Wheel of Fortune or on some other static moves while you wait for the cooldowns of your Dusks. It feels like you're missing some tools to pressure opponents' blocks or life when they're in super armor or just trading with you. They should be afraid to trade with a DK but generally, they're just running into you and you're just trying to land a CC. The class only shines at killing high evasion targets with her 12% accuracy passives at 63 and the 25% accuracy on Enforcement and maybe at killing wizards (somehow) because she can close the gap quickly enough. I wouldn't say the class is good in 1v1 but she's not the worst either.

Awakening PvP

I won't elaborate too much on that part since I haven't played it for months and I'm basing this only on my observations and past experiences. 

To me that's where the class all comes together, the use of your pre-awakening in addition to your awakening feels like an ALL and complements quite well each other. You really have that feel of going in and getting out after you've done your business but you also have that ranged damage that helps you to either get some distance with your opponent or put them on the defensive so you can strike. Problems come when you try to use your pre-awakening... Damage is lackluster at best, you're never safe because you can't Dusk out of animations, you have to complete every animation like Air strike and pray to god you won't get CCed, you can't reposition Kamasylvia slash, you have less range on Slanted balance and the question that comes is "Why am I using the pre-awakening?". I know why you're supposed to use it but why does it have to feel so bad to use it? 

Regarding group PvP, it surely is the best spec of both. you're pretty safe while playing awakening if you stay at range and you can deal some damage from afar without risking too much. But it probably won't feel really rewarding since you can barely act on the outcome of the fights unless you land a great Seed of catastrophe or have 305ap+. And you also have less damage than a ranger or wizard so why are you playing DK if you're a ranged class?

For 1v1 it's pretty much the same problems as stated initially, you have some great safety and range damage with your awakening kit but the pre-awakening is often a trap. So, when you're dueling and run out of cooldowns with your awakening you have the choice to either risk it and go pre-awakening or flee until you get your cooldown back. I know it's quite exaggerated but it's really how it feels. Of course, you can play with the pre-awakening but it's just straight up a dice roll at that point if you get CCed or not. 

Gear :

Lately, I've been watching some awakening montages and the thing that struck me the most is how the class just becomes somewhat viable when you have gear. Like, at 305ap you're really starting to threaten the life of your opponents and that's when it becomes good but until then it's quite a grind and a lot less successful.

I know it's been said multiple times over the years but a class shouldn't be viable when you reach a certain threshold of gear. If that's the case then there is something wrong and it feels like since I play DK one thing that stays true is that there always is that little voice in the back of my head saying "It will be better when I have more gear". While this doesn't apply too much to succession it definitely applies to awakening.

Solutions : 

So, now that I expressed myself on the current state of DK, I'd like to provide some of my thoughts regarding solutions that could actually impact the class greatly. And at the same time, I'd like to hear your take on the subject. I've talked to a few different DK players and they're so desperate for buffs at that point that they're legit willing to accept anything and be good with it. And to be honest I don't think that's a good approach but we'll see what the future holds. Until then I'll just propose ideas disregarding if I think PearlAbyss will ever do such a thing or not.

I don't think that changing the damage on some skills will fix either succession or awakening, the problems are so deeply rooted in the separation between the 2 that I don't feel like it would make a good change. For example, if you'd be to buff the succession damage, how fair would it be for the opponent to get traded to death like Nova can do at the moment? It doesn't feel good on the receiving end and it's completely unskilled on the other end. Or if you'd be to buff awakening damage once more, how would it feel to get your block shredded and a third of your life at the same time by a 7sec line of sword raining off the sky that you can't even dodge? That one would probably be fun to play but would it be fair? I don't think so, and we would just go from hating on wizard succession to hating on DK awakening and how unskilled it would be.

While I'm not gonna do into too many details about each of them, I have 3 big changes that could help the class reach its potential : 

- Merge the succession and the awakening into one single spec just like the Archer class. I mean it's pretty unlikely they would ever do that but think about it for a second. For succession, that would give you some tool to pressure opponents with range damage, and for awakening that would just straight up give you a functional pre-awakening kit. Imagine being able to do legitimate damage in both stances and once again be the in and out class we used to be. Of course, that would probably require some tuning to the damage and such. But it's not that unreasonable, everything is already there they'd just have to re-arrange the skill build and maybe the passives. It's quite low effort, it's probably what "most" of the DK player wants since succession came out and it would give back the unique playstyle that DK used to have.

- Give the succession Perk (to be able to use Dusk at any time) to the pre-awakening kit of awakening DK and rework the succession trait. That one would require a bit more time and effort because we're talking about finding a new identity to the succession DK. It's in the same vein as the previously mentioned solution but it would keep the awakening and succession separation and would allow for both styles to be played. 

- Separate class-to-class PvP modifiers between succession and awakening to allow a more flexible approach to the different specs and tune them differently compared to their strengths and weaknesses. That one wouldn't fix awakening but at least give some more control for PearlAbyss on what they could do in the future for DK.

- Rework a bunch of the useless skills the class has both in awakening and pre-awakening so she can be less gated by her cooldowns and have some more useful stuff to do during the downtime. And when I mean rework, I don't think about adding a CC or protection to a skill, I mean a literal rework where you either iterate on the initial concept or scrap it completely to make a new skill out of it.

- Add a block shredding mechanic that would allow the DK to pressure her opponents more efficiently in PvP and add some uniqueness to the class as she would be the only one to have it. I said it wouldn't be fair for awakening but done correctly maybe there is something to explore here.

- ...

Of course, none of the solutions mentioned above are perfect but I'm just throwing ideas from the top of my head and I hope we can have a constructive discussion about the subject and that maybe some of our ideas reach PearlAbyss ears. Who knows, maybe we can make things change?

Thanks for reading if you made it this far before commenting about your hate-love relationship with the class.

Have a nice day.

PS : Sorry if that came out a bit weirdly, it was stuck in my head and I had to get it out.

As pointed at, i forgot to mention that Awakening DK is great in group PvP in addition to being superior to succession in that domain and that the ap requirement is mostly for awakening because succession doesn't require as much

This is false.

Abilities have a PvP damage modifier (each seperately)

And there is a global class vs class modifiers.

If they would want to give more damage to sucession, they can just buff the sucession abilities by whathewer percentage they want, and it wouldn't affect awa.

Your other claim is false aswell. awa ain't safe. She only got FG, which is only realible at range and is easy to be destroyed.

The argument is bad aswell. Wizzard have high range, higher damage incomparably higher AOE, cc, and better protections aswell, so literately everything combined that you label as "they can't give it cause"...

You keep mention range, but awa DK isn't a ranged class. She has some medium range ability with long cd, but her hardest hitting abilities are melee range with small hit area (much smaller than what guardian has) on a long animation.

- I think you misunderstood what I meant in your first point. I meant that they can't really touch class to class pvp modifiers because if they would be to change the damage taken of the class that would help both specs. And yes awakening is a lot safer than succession which would make the class eventually a lot harder to kill for no apparent reason. On the other side, they can't really buff damage that way either because succession would just end up one shotting people. So yeah for the damage part they HAVE TO tickle every skills numbers. I was really only mentionning class to class pvp modifiers here.

- Have you ever tried to catch an awakening dk that knows how to play? If played correctly it's really slippery and a lot harder to catch than a succession dk which has to be in your face to do anything in the first place.

- I see what you mean, dk isn't really a range class but in group pvp you're mostly using it from range anyway.

- And to wizard, witch and ranger, yes the class have less range skills. But to all the others classes we just out range them by far in awakening.

If they would want to make succ harder to kill, they could just give her passives with DR or HP or more protections, or additional DR after some skill use and that wouldn't affect awa.

But I doubt they want to do it, especially that sucession is in a better spot atm than awa...

I don't know what game do you play, but each of dk's dash have very short range, and only protected while used without cd (and even then only for a fraction of second). Surely agains noobs you can tryhard, but that barely a real argument...

Who do you outrange in awa? In wow she would be pretty op, but in bdo, the mayority of the classes can dash nearly instantly as much distance, than your range is, then where is your advantage?

Yes, you can just cover behind your allies and steal some kills, but I wouldn't boast with that as a viable gameplay option...

*Like, at 305ap you're really starting to threaten the life of your opponents and that's when it becomes good but until then it's quite a grind and a lot less successful.*

Yes vs 320 dp. 305 ap + is designed to compete with the 380 dp.  that's why players who are like me (stupid xD) with 0 dp like me hehe, cry for the sucession wiz: D the only nerf needed are their cc's.  but who cares

*- Have you ever tried to catch an awakening dk that knows how to play? If played correctly it's really slippery and a lot harder to catch than a succession dk which has to be in your face to do anything in the first place.*

 exactly, the dark knight runs, runs, runs, runs, runs and runs to die afterwards.

Awak Dk need SA/FG ;twilight run

                          SA: flow disaster

 it may have been too powerful at the time, but wtf we are in 2021, wiz (succession) guardian, hash, nova and sage now ... exists

 of course i'm just a not very competent player, but i think many think this

Make dk great again, that is all.

Dk is perfectly balanced 

Next time you make post like this, don't forget to  max private your profile so people won't see who you are.