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#Suggestions #Community Support
Let's ACTUALLY talk about Awakened Sage Changes. (From the perspective of a day one sage lover)
Aug 14, 2021, 22:24 (UTC)
5470 77
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Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 03:30 (UTC)
# 21
On: Aug 15, 2021, 02:39 (UTC), Written by RumbleStilt

I'm sorry to say, no. it does not suggest that awakening sage is "just that strong" Because when succ sage was deleted, awakening sage was still in it's "iffy" territory where most people didn't know what to think about it. It was not considered a strong class whatsoever. That came much later.

Then it's funny how even though awakening sage received no real buffs or changes ever since the may 18th patch (patch where succ sage got nerfed), that is when people started finding out the class is strong? almost like everyone that played succession rolled over and realized that it's not worth playing succession because even if succession is strong, awakening is just vastly superior that it's not worth even considering?

 

Also, it was known from day 1 that the awakening sage kit was overloaded, just that no one knew how to play it. spammable iframe with a ranged grab? disgusting. the succession nerf gave people the perfect opportunity to try, and the fact that no one went back is very telling- awakening is just so strong that no matter what succession's status is, there isn't a reason to go back.

 

Again- one spec not being played does not mean that spec is necessarily dead, just that the other spec is much superior. there was no awakening wizards when succ wizards were broken, but awakening wizards were completely fine.

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 03:31 (UTC)
# 22
On: Aug 14, 2021, 23:02 (UTC), Written by Fabulicious

I disagree with the fact that you write Sage's iframe needs to be visible. It should stay just like it is... If Sorc/Hash/Ninja still exist with their disgusting iframes, why should another iframe class suffer? Either remove the iframe mechanic completely from all classes, and just make it an invincible frame not invisible frame or just keep it as it is - I don't understand the logic of completely DESTROYING a class the way they are doing right now.
Sage needs to be nerfed Damage/Acc wise, not in his core playstyle.

I die in my iframes all the time, yet you retreat to safety and only get punished by grab if you have placement desync in another skill or you don't iframe lul. Nerf the crappy iframe spam. It's a good decision.

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 04:10 (UTC)
# 23
On: Aug 15, 2021, 02:58 (UTC), Written by asdsadfas

Then it's funny how even though awakening sage received no real buffs or changes ever since the may 18th patch (patch where succ sage got nerfed), that is when people started finding out the class is strong? almost like everyone that played succession rolled over and realized that it's not worth playing succession because even if succession is strong, awakening is just vastly superior that it's not worth even considering?

 

Also, it was known from day 1 that the awakening sage kit was overloaded, just that no one knew how to play it. spammable iframe with a ranged grab? disgusting. the succession nerf gave people the perfect opportunity to try, and the fact that no one went back is very telling- awakening is just so strong that no matter what succession's status is, there isn't a reason to go back.

 

Again- one spec not being played does not mean that spec is necessarily dead, just that the other spec is much superior. there was no awakening wizards when succ wizards were broken, but awakening wizards were completely fine.

This only further proves how little you know about the class. Sage never had a "spammable I frame" day one, that came a long while later in the 2nd iteration release of the class. Before the overcharge mechanic was fleshed out, sages iframe was on a 2 second cooldown and everyone unanimously agreed that the class suffered from an extreme lack of in-battle movement. His only option for mobility was either 
1.) A 17 second CD 0.5 second iframe with a large gap in the start, meant purely for escaping.
2.) a 7 second CD iframe that is completely locked behind engaging with an enemy player. 
Not to mention his 1st iteration Bolt was a buggy mess of an iframe as well, but no point bringing that part up. 
3.) Bolt, which at the time was a 2 second CD, Clunky, and full of gaps.

3.) Another thing. Here are the sage change logs for May 18th, the exact same day Succession was gutted, and also the exact same day that we initially gained the ability to use our Bolt Iframe multiple times through our overcharge mechanic. (one of the multiple major mechanic changes that's taken place with sage.)

Awakening
● Radiant Annihilation - Added an All Accuracy +9% for 10 sec effect when the skill is used.
● Radiant Annihilation - Fixed the issue where the Arkanon effect would sometimes not activate.
● Improved skills to combo more naturally when used immediately after switching from Awakening weapon to Main weapon and vice versa. ● Bolt - Improved so that he turns towards the camera angle.
● Flow: Interrogate - Improved to be able to hit enemies in higher locations.
● Bolt - Improved to be useable during cooldown while Overcharged status is active.
● Bolt - Improved to be useable in main weapon stance.
● Seize - Improved to attack the enemy faster after grabbing them successfully.
● Changed Upsurge to attack forward after using the following skills: - Evading backwards after Impaling Flash - Radiant Annihilation - Residual Lightning - Chain Lightning


So by your logic, people knew the class was OP and were already abusing it's OP iframes and damage before succ sage was nerfed, even though these OP buffs came the exact same day as the gutting succ nerf? 

Succession sage and awakening sage did not share strength at the same time as each other, one was gutted to the point where it was unplayable, and the other was buffed to where it was playable on the exact same day. There is no "it's not worth playing succession because even if succession is strong." The reason "no one went back" to succession is because by the time sage awakening was finally good, succession was already dead in the water on the exact same day.

 

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 04:52 (UTC)
# 24
On: Aug 15, 2021, 04:10 (UTC), Written by RumbleStilt

This only further proves how little you know about the class. Sage never had a "spammable I frame" day one, that came a long while later in the 2nd iteration release of the class. Before the overcharge mechanic was fleshed out, sages iframe was on a 2 second cooldown and everyone unanimously agreed that the class suffered from an extreme lack of in-battle movement. His only option for mobility was either 
1.) A 17 second CD 0.5 second iframe with a large gap in the start, meant purely for escaping.
2.) a 7 second CD iframe that is completely locked behind engaging with an enemy player. 
Not to mention his 1st iteration Bolt was a buggy mess of an iframe as well, but no point bringing that part up. 
3.) Bolt, which at the time was a 2 second CD, Clunky, and full of gaps.

3.) Another thing. Here are the sage change logs for May 18th, the exact same day Succession was gutted, and also the exact same day that we initially gained the ability to use our Bolt Iframe multiple times through our overcharge mechanic. (one of the multiple major mechanic changes that's taken place with sage.)

Awakening
● Radiant Annihilation - Added an All Accuracy +9% for 10 sec effect when the skill is used.
● Radiant Annihilation - Fixed the issue where the Arkanon effect would sometimes not activate.
● Improved skills to combo more naturally when used immediately after switching from Awakening weapon to Main weapon and vice versa. ● Bolt - Improved so that he turns towards the camera angle.
● Flow: Interrogate - Improved to be able to hit enemies in higher locations.
● Bolt - Improved to be useable during cooldown while Overcharged status is active.
● Bolt - Improved to be useable in main weapon stance.
● Seize - Improved to attack the enemy faster after grabbing them successfully.
● Changed Upsurge to attack forward after using the following skills: - Evading backwards after Impaling Flash - Radiant Annihilation - Residual Lightning - Chain Lightning


So by your logic, people knew the class was OP and were already abusing it's OP iframes and damage before succ sage was nerfed, even though these OP buffs came the exact same day as the gutting succ nerf? 

Succession sage and awakening sage did not share strength at the same time as each other, one was gutted to the point where it was unplayable, and the other was buffed to where it was playable on the exact same day. There is no "it's not worth playing succession because even if succession is strong." The reason "no one went back" to succession is because by the time sage awakening was finally good, succession was already dead in the water on the exact same day.

 

Didn't realize that awakening Sages can't use preawakening skills like the spammable iframe that they had before that patch. Nice to know!

 

Also, you are so spoiled by succession sage that you don't realize that a 2cd iframe is more than what most classes had. 

This is yet again another case of one spec being so strong that there was no reason to play the other. Succesion sage completely broken prenerf, no reason to go awakening. post nerf, succession sages try out awakening and find out with the buffs it's completely broken and braindead, no reason to go back to succession sage.

 

The timeline is very easy to understand. Succession sages were so strong there was no reason to learn awakening sage, no matter how weak or strong. post nerf and awakening buff, awakening sages were so strong there was no reason to play succession. You yourself had said that "when succ sage was deleted, awakening sage was still in it's "iffy" territory where most people didn't know what to think about it." Everyone rolled over and didn't look back not because the succ sage wasn't strong, but because they tried it out and found that awakening sage was just better. 

 

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 05:06 (UTC)
# 25
On: Aug 15, 2021, 04:41 (UTC), Written by asdsadfas

Didn't realize that awakening Sages can't use preawakening skills like the spammable iframe that they had before that patch. Nice to know!

 

Also, you are so spoiled by succession sage that you don't realize that a 2cd iframe is more than what most classes had. 

This is yet again another case of one spec being so strong that there was no reason to play the other. Succesion sage completely broken prenerf, no reason to go awakening. post nerf, succession sages try out awakening and find out with the buffs it's completely broken and braindead, no reason to go back to succession sage.

 

The timeline is very easy to understand. Succession sages were so strong there was no reason to learn awakening sage, no matter how weak or strong. post nerf and awakening buff, awakening sages were so strong there was no reason to play succession. You yourself had said that "when succ sage was deleted, awakening sage was still in it's "iffy" territory where most people didn't know what to think about it." Everyone rolled over and didn't look back not because the succ sage wasn't strong, but because they tried it out and found that awakening sage was just better

On: Aug 15, 2021, 04:41 (UTC), Written by asdsadfas

Didn't realize that awakening Sages can't use preawakening skills like the spammable iframe that they had before that patch. Nice to know!

 

Also, you are so spoiled by succession sage that you don't realize that a 2cd iframe is more than what most classes had. 

This is yet again another case of one spec being so strong that there was no reason to play the other. Succesion sage completely broken prenerf, no reason to go awakening. post nerf, succession sages try out awakening and find out with the buffs it's completely broken and braindead, no reason to go back to succession sage.

 

The timeline is very easy to understand. Succession sages were so strong there was no reason to learn awakening sage, no matter how weak or strong. post nerf and awakening buff, awakening sages were so strong there was no reason to play succession. You yourself had said that "when succ sage was deleted, awakening sage was still in it's "iffy" territory where most people didn't know what to think about it." Everyone rolled over and didn't look back not because the succ sage wasn't strong, but because they tried it out and found that awakening sage was just better. 

 


 You're for some reason refusing to say the reason why people were forced to reroll from succession sage and gradually learn more about and play awakening sage. And that fact you're dancing around that is kinda funny. Also.... No, before 3rd rabams there was no real way to have access to the preawakened sages Iframe without hard C swapping. So using Rift as an awakening sage was actively not only a waste of time, but will without a doubt get you immediately killed in doing so. ALSO... The preawakening iframe is only spammable in succession, not in awakening. In awakening it's a 7 second cooldown. So yet again, no. 

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 05:12 (UTC)
# 26
On: Aug 15, 2021, 04:41 (UTC), Written by asdsadfas

Didn't realize that awakening Sages can't use preawakening skills like the spammable iframe that they had before that patch. Nice to know!

 

Also, you are so spoiled by succession sage that you don't realize that a 2cd iframe is more than what most classes had. 

This is yet again another case of one spec being so strong that there was no reason to play the other. Succesion sage completely broken prenerf, no reason to go awakening. post nerf, succession sages try out awakening and find out with the buffs it's completely broken and braindead, no reason to go back to succession sage.

 

The timeline is very easy to understand. Succession sages were so strong there was no reason to learn awakening sage, no matter how weak or strong. post nerf and awakening buff, awakening sages were so strong there was no reason to play succession. You yourself had said that "when succ sage was deleted, awakening sage was still in it's "iffy" territory where most people didn't know what to think about it." Everyone rolled over and didn't look back not because the succ sage wasn't strong, but because they tried it out and found that awakening sage was just better. 

 

Also, "Also, you are so spoiled by succession sage that you don't realize that a 2cd iframe is more than what most classes had. " Is so insane to me. 

Awakening sage has no real form of damage mitigation within his kit. He is insanely squishy, his ability to iframe is quite literally his only saving grace when it comes to avoiding damage. If you get hit with damage as a sage, there is no mitigating it. Your only choice is to dodge it completely with iframes.

On the other hand, other classes have built in damage mitigation in not only the form of extremely strong blocks, innate tankiness, and iframes, but also in the form of strong DR/EVA passives and self-buffs. 

Awakening sage has none of these things besides his ability to Iframe.  Mixed with sages already innately frail defensive stats. 

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 05:26 (UTC)
# 27
On: Aug 15, 2021, 05:06 (UTC), Written by RumbleStilt
 

No one was "forced" to roll awakening sage from succession and the fact that you think so is kinda funny, and very indicative of your thought process. They rolled because it was near free for them since they just slap on an awakening weapon and do a questline. If awakening was any weaker sages would've stayed sages. 

 

It's the thought of it. As you said, people were iffy about the class but the class on paper with access to spammable iframe and ranged grab puts a bad taste on everyones mouths. Not to mention he spammable iframe, 2 second iframe and a ranged grab is already enough.

 

I'll admit that I don't have any play time on sage, but just went into rbf as a sage with oasis weapons. survivability definitely better than what everyone is saying it is, damage not great but that's because i had oasis weapons and I'm not going to roll my weapons for a simple test. Even the post nerf succession sage is definitely still better than some classes. Not being able to spam iframes and 1 skill other classes doesn't make your class weak. 

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 05:29 (UTC)
# 28
On: Aug 15, 2021, 05:26 (UTC), Written by asdsadfas

No one was "forced" to roll awakening sage from succession and the fact that you think so is kinda funny, and very indicative of your thought process. They rolled because it was near free for them since they just slap on an awakening weapon and do a questline. If awakening was any weaker sages would've stayed sages. 

 

It's the thought of it. As you said, people were iffy about the class but the class on paper with access to spammable iframe and ranged grab puts a bad taste on everyones mouths. Not to mention he spammable iframe, 2 second iframe and a ranged grab is already enough.

 

I'll admit that I don't have any play time on sage, but just went into rbf as a sage with oasis weapons. survivability definitely better than what everyone is saying it is, damage not great but that's because i had oasis weapons and I'm not going to roll my weapons for a simple test. Even the post nerf succession sage is definitely still better than some classes. Not being able to spam iframes and 1 skill other classes doesn't make your class weak. 

Okay dude. We'll just agree to disagree.

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 05:33 (UTC)
# 29
On: Aug 15, 2021, 05:29 (UTC), Written by RumbleStilt

Okay dude. We'll just agree to disagree.

That's fair. Feels like we'll just go in a circle and the reality is that it's unfortunate that the buffs landed the same day that the nerfs did. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBX6Hk7ZJ60

 

Here's a video of someone that knows succession more than you or I though. 

Last Edit : Aug 15, 2021, 07:56 (UTC)
# 30

Keep bolt as an iframe... taking that away quite literally kills awk sage. It would be like giving Sorc SA instead of iframe. Every class has its gimmicks, taking them away from the class what we it is war/guard/dk etc and it's specs destroys it. This change is more along the lines of gameplay mechanical murder. 

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