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#Warrior
Warrior Reboot - Global Lab
Oct 6, 2021, 09:36 (UTC)
6026 32
Last Edit : Oct 6, 2021, 18:30 (UTC)
# 11

This post will mirror a lot of the same sentiments as Rengo's. Anecdotally, of course, a lot of that post seems to be part and parcel of the blanket concerns & outlook a lot of Warriors seem to have with the reboots thus far (in the communities I visit & read), and where they're lacking.

 

-The Frenzied Charge rework is cool. Looks cool. Feels cool. The issue is the cooldown, and lack of protection. A significantly lower cooldown to match the new functionality with Earth Tremor, OR the same long cooldown, with FG or SA would be a significant improvement. As of now, casting Frenzied Charge seems to be a very stylish, visually spectacular way of suiciding yourself into CC.

 

-The War Cry change is...a wonderful show of intent to move in the right direction. The change in concept behind the ability is good. The proposed change from the existing DP buff, towards a % DR buff, would be much more impactful, especially in the Warrior's potential place in largescale and group play, without imbalacing/overtuning its damage as it stands. Even if it only provided a DR buff, it would be more useful than the current proposed change.

 

- The Solar Flare change is welcomed, and useful. On the flipside of the buff/debuff coin, the Hilt Strike change is also welcomed...but with the removal of hot-key functionality for this ability, creates forced changes in the firing of our combos; Blance>Hilt is a large slot of time & animation to softly 'force' into our combos in order to take any advantage of this buff. As it stands with the current change, the ability will be unused in anything but 1v1 due to this CC 'Down-Combo' necessitating those two unprotected skills needing to be used without hotkeying Hilt Strike for the buff on its own. With that said, giving Balance Strike SA, even if it meant removing the Stiffness CC from it in lieu of SA/FG, would help remedy this fear for a 2-ability string with zero protection to attain this buff & find real-life-use for this change.

 

- Knee Kick. It could use some work. Not much use...anywhere. The animation lock is clunky. The damage is negligible in light of...any other ability off of cooldown. It fits the reboot/rework definition of underused and underutilized. 

 

- Frenzied Strikes is great in PvE. Good damage, good cooldown, good AoE range that I feel the animation and effects reflects well enough. I feel forced to Core it with FG when in PvE only, however, as anywhere I grind and need to use it (I.E.: Elvia, Turos, any area where mobs don't die in a single use of Grave Digger, Slashing the Dead, etc), I feel 'forced' to Core it to have FG to not get constantly CCed during its very long animation window. I have never once used it in PvP, as when I PvP, prefer not to use abilities with extremely long animation times, and low damage. This actually doesn't bother me, as I've just viewed it as 'The PvE ability', and I've been comfortable with that. Hell, if you added FG to it and made it do ZERO damage in PvP, I wouldn't even be phased by it. Having to Core it to FG for PvE is a pain, and there's really no discernable fear/imblalacing/overtuning issues I can see with giving it FG, as far as PvP goes.

 

- Burning Moxie is something I've categorized under my "Old Habits Get You Killed" file. I've had it locked since a few weeks after SA was stripped from it way-back-when. Between potions being on half the CD they used to be, their reduced weight, and no abilities with massive resource-draining WP costs, it's useless for me to use. I fail to see where giving it SA back, or FG, would be an issue, as it's a utility ability, thats about to be given a small breath of life & usefulness with the movespeed buff coming to it. Without protection, I may use it between mob packs while grinding for the speed buff; but the idea of using it, tempting as that 10% move speed is, when any enemy in PvP is within eyeshot of me, seems like a stupid gamble with little impact if I roll the dice by using it.

 

With the reboot/rework and Awakened Warrior in mind:

      Most all of these changes will see very little change in the 1v1 performance of Warrior; Warrior is good in 1v1. The issue is, especially so with Awakening Warrior, we are borderline undesired in any group or largescale play, unless you run around with the reaction time & APM that would set world records in the Korean Pro-Gamer Circuit, and can maintain 140+FPS on your computer/rig to facilitate that level of play & skill, along with the lofty gearscore to enable it; all while enjoying the 2004 level graphics settings that FPS benchmarking will demand. Only then, will you play on the outskirts of the main thick-of-it, get pickoffs when you can, and wait for your 3-Minute Executioner buff to come off CD so you can Roleplay being a Guardian or Nova for about 30 seconds.

      I can swear to you on my own life with absolute certainty, Awaken Warriors do not have any fantasy in their heads to be the busted "gold-standard" Class in Large Scale & Siege. But, not being neutered in it, as Rengo said, would be nice. The DR per Nearby Enemy mechanic would do leagues to facilitate this, and have absolutely little to no impact in 1v1, especially if it does't kick in until there were at least 2-3 enemies within the given range of activation.

     Our Head Chase I-Frame is...bad, compared to other classes I-Frames. We don't want to be Sorcs, but we'd like it to work 'marginally better' if possible. The cooldown is nice, but the I-Frame itself isn't. Musa and Lahn have excellent 'spammable' mid-combat movements with I-Frames that function as SA when on Cooldown. I'm personally of the mind that Head Chase doesn't need to be that, and it would legitimately be too strong on Warrior. Succession's I-Frame feels much better, despite its current CD (which I am aware is being reduced. Good call. Going to be a very good change for Succ Warriors).

      We know when we snap into the fray, we're going to get bloody, and swing a big, big sword, really hard; like Guts, doing our best Berserk RP in the middle of PvP. Currently, we're charging into a one-way-ticket to a respawn timer/trip back to the nearest safe-zone if we don't properly and carefullty dance on the edges, away from the ball, like an off-brand Musa. I'm ok with dying in the thick of the clashing groups of countless people in largescale because I slap on my Berserker Armor Costume and get some stupid idea in my head that I can take some hits; but I would appreciate the ability to cast more than 1 & 1/2 skills in the process.

     SA on Balance Strike, a better I-Frame for Head Chase, and an X amount of DR per enemy within Y Range (even if it has a 2-3 enemy base requirement to activate), and whatever the new skill may be (fingers crossed for something ranged, but anything that looks like it came from a Berserk combat-panel is A-Ok with me), will do wonders to remedy these issues that Awaken Warriors have suffered for literal years.

     As Rengo noted, the damage tunings seem, and I'm surprised I'm saying this to any MMO Dev Team, solid as is. To compensate, the BSR 10% Pulverize could have its damage tuned down, it casts faster than normal which is nice as is, maybe the 10% BSR could give more healing, or a buff of some kind. The same goes with the 50% BSR Slashing the Dead; slashing chunks people as is, and looks much better on Glabs with the current proposed changes (though some have an issue with no-collission possible hurting the damage on-target hitting properly), the BSR Slashing could have a different effect that keeps the damage the same as normal, and perhaps provides a buff of some kind, or increased range on the ability.

     Reckless Blow: This needs another look over, guys. Watch people use it. Sure, the SA during charge is cool. It's super inconsistent. The swing itself is hilariously oftentimes completely negated because of CC making nothing register, and putting it on CD. Take the CC off of Reckless, if you have to. Fine by me. The ability outside of 1v1 and extremely smallscale, or used with the fearful vigilance of someone with clinical paranoia and god-tier situational awareness, leaves many Reckless Blows abandoned on the street, alone and shivering pathetically. It's damage registration is even inconsistent if you get it off successfully, for the reasons Cereal detailed out. The change to allow it to cast after a headchase is sweet. It's a small technical sprinkle on top of a scoop of icecream thats half melted, and 2-months expired. It's a dope ability, with a dope animation, and the damage speaks for itself.....when it registers properly, which is not often for the slower players, and not often for the skilled players animation cancelling at the wrong microsecond of the animation, either.

      Also, yeah; Cereal's sentiment about the newer classes being able to SA trade people to death, meanwhile other classes (Not in the least bit limited to just Warrior) absolutely must rely on down attacks to attempt to compare to newer classes output while SA trading, without Down Damage involved. Something to keep in mind as you continue to tune not only Warrior rework/reboot, but other classes as well. True 100% balance is literally impossible, but trying to narrow those balance gaps where they are large, ugly, and apparent, will suffice.

 

 

With the reboot/rework and Succession Warrior in mind:

      The classes that bring things to the table, not only for themselves, but for their team, are cool. It's class-fantasy and class-design done well when implementing classes into a diverse and extremely wide array of toolkits and functionalities, dropped into the mayhem of large scale, all-out war in a game with arguably the best combat system by any metric or standard, especially for an MMO.

      Warrior would benefit from some of that. When I play Succession, I want to feel like I'm the shield at the side of my buddies on the front line, taking blows to the chin & the shield, and protecting my allies, even if it's just by some magically-enabled inspiring presence. Succession feels good, and the changes coming to it are going to clearly make some of that better...But what's coming doesn't seem to tackle those ideals of what the Sword & Board Warrior does; give some protection to his allies, and charge in to do what a Warrior does best; forsake all the sparkly-magic, calling down magical fists from the heavens, turning into a literal flaming pheonix/mermaid, or firing magical gold & green arrows from afar; but charge in like a bat-out-of-hell behind a metal shield, and throw-down like a brute in the thick of it with his sword.

      War Cry could go without the AP buff to self. The damage tuning with this rework/reboot honestly covers for that, and puts Succession Warrior (and from what I've seen, Awakening for that matter) back in a spot where we, unlike most of the newer-than-launch classes, don't need to scrounge for crumbs of AP to match their effectiveness and potency. The DP Buff to self and allies is...basically a tertiary skill-addon. Making it a %DR buff to self and allies would actually be useful, and being part of that ever-important set-up before my allies group up right before a big push, and hearing the clangs of metal on my shield, knowing I'm helping in some small part to rally & protect my buddies before we charge in either to our glorious victory or glorious death, is going to be a useful difference.

      The Frenzied Charge changes proposed will maintain all of that glowing, heroic class fantasy....right up until you're within render-distance of enemy players, and que the *record scratch* sound, because you're about to kiss the dirt & watch your frames drop from the incoming CC that is telegraphed by that animation like a neon billboard. A lower Cooldown on it would be tolerable; it is a fast movement, but this would only allow it some more function in small scale, or 1v1 against classes that don't have a plethora of on-demand ranged CC at their disposal. The same Cooldown with FG or SA would keep it balanced, usable, and allow for its clearly intended design and purpose.

This was deleted by the writer.
Last Edit : Oct 6, 2021, 19:12 (UTC)
# 13

Head Chase should gain either a tiny bit of lingering iframe while off CD, or give it a SA the first time its used ON CD. Its kinda ridiculous how many times warriors get CC'd in their head chase iframe. While I was learning warrior I would constantly ask "What am I doing wrong" and every single warriors answer was "Head Chase isn't an iframe, it just says it is." Head Chase iframe has been a meme for years.

 
Also the lack of SA on a class named "Warrior" is very lackluster, Full SA on Reckless, or SA on Balance and a FG on Frenzied Dash would completly fix the protection of this class, imo.
 
The Hilt Strike unable to be placed on hotbar is really going to not be very useful aswell. The changes you've done to it are okay, but removing it from hotbar I feel is unnecessary. 
Last Edit : Oct 6, 2021, 19:17 (UTC)
# 14

Hello and greetings! First off i wanna clarify i play awk as my main spec, i play succ as well so i may reference it but not discuss it. That'll be up to the succession mains.

So first off. In live currently Awakening warriors damage is lack luster compared to most or many of the cast HOWEVER due to global labs that seems to be addressed more so, so im not to worried personally for damage output. It is not as high as some classes but it is looking juicy.

The mobility and cancel fun aspect of the class is staying in tact (that i know of, alot cant get on glabs so alot is 2nd hand info) So thats something that's worried all of us, and it seems your keeping the spirit of that in mind. Love for that.

Anddddd now the feedback part. Alot of the classes problem and it remains to this moment in time, is lack of protected mobility. The only super armors we have for awakening is Grave, Slashing, Reckless. If we count the preawakening kit it's a couple more, chopping kick, and ground smash. so 5 Sa's? some classes have double that and then some, some completely able to cycle their protections to where they arn't ever unprotected. Granted we've a good amount of frontal guards...But Corsair exists, so FG's are pretty much meaningless with their block debuff existing. Hence the priority for super armors more, as you'll read down the feedback.

HOWEVER Reckless can't even be considered SA as it's unprotected on the THE MOST important part. The swing. The skill next to grave is iconic for the awakening warrior, and was considered the trademark skill of the class. However the problem is, using it in a group like setting, the unprotected aspect of it is such a risk to use. One solution. If on quick charge (as in no charge.) Grant it frontal guard on the swing or keep it unprotected. BUT on the full charge(and yes during e buff) grant it super armor all the way through. As then it'll warrent having the property in the first place cause it's never used to begin with for the property. If by design reckless is supposed to be this unstoppable charged swing, thats the way to do it. Atleast in my mind. We have to hold still to charge the swing then that time should make it protected.

The iframe for awakening. Alot of classes have protected movement nowa days, and more so reliable ones. Warrior is not one of those classes. As alot of our movement is either unprotected, or FG. Which means getting out of a fight...well never gonna happen. Many a time i've tried the hoof and scoot only to take a shot in the royal kaboose and get cc'd for it. The iframe is our saving grace but the problem is, the frame data on it is terrible for the ping a majority of people have. And for using thing's like solarflare we don't really get many options for a protected engage. We couldddd core solar flare, but...Solution: Increase the beginning frame data of the iframe, and the end of it as well. The dream of being able to linger it like most classes can now. This would help the class massively as it's a huge part of survival.

Solar flare requires the iframe to make use of. To turn it into Flare dash as they say. Frankly as the skill is our core part of movement, using the iframe to launch it means there's 0 chance of escaping a bad situation. Solution 2 both skills. Give solar flare it's self dash for the gap close back, that way we've an iframe to use as needed. Alot of classes have this option and warrior isn't one of them. But that maybe an idea for y'all to run with, and warrent maybe specing core solar flare for.

The flow from Balance Strike. Hilt Strike. Has mainly been a DP buff for many and locked and sloted as such for...ever? doesn't really make much sense to keep it locked away.  I think i and the rest of the warrior community would really like to see it be hotkeyable again, as other classes have accuracy buffs that they don't have to go out of their way to burn their mobility for.


Flow:knee kick. This poor skill has been basically abandoned for a hot while because it has zero going for it. An animation locked skill, that does very little damage, maybe has a slow/stiffen but those don't matter as the skill doesn't flow into anything, and helps benefit the class. I would love to see this skill reworked. Surprise us!

Burning moxie. An all time fav for alot of the warrior crew. I love the fact it's gonna restore the WP and apply a 10% movement speed buff. Although i think it deserves a defensive property since it isn't an offensive move. The dream for it obviously would be super armor. Since we could use that to help the lack of Super Armors in the kit.


The class is a duelist by current design, and having it thrive as such is one thing. But that keeps out alot of the idea of group fighting for the class. Unless you've spent YEARS mastering the class, you won't be able to really group fight at all, and frankly someone can grab corsair and play it for 1-2 weeks and out preform warrior's that been playing it for 3-4 years. That hurts. We bring nothing to the table for group play.

Which leads me to the next part. Warcry. That skill i think y'all are trying to balance around trying to make it a 'group' tool. Which is a marvelous idea. But...20 dp that isn't even unique seems like, such a waste if im being honest. It's a skill with Forward Guard on it as well. The fact it has a defensive property alone but applies nothing but a rewritable buff with a harsh cooldown. Not really ideal. Solution or atleast an idea. With a 1 minute cooldown, which is substanial apply it to have super armor instead, and apply 5% dr is ideal, 10% is the dream. We're a DR centric class, would fit the theme and give us something for group play as well.

The shield counter trees. Furious blow, etc. Never get touched as they don't do anything basically for the class. Something to look into. Surprise us once more!

Outside of the other rebams like shield assault, dusk slash. They are pretty toasty. You could make shield assault better by making it FG bonk like shield strikes 3rd hit. Doesn't need a cc on it, just a FG trade. Dusk slash give it a down attack mod. And up the damage a tiny bit. Ezpz.

Frenized strikes is mainly a PvE skill. Honestly slap FG on it. And change the core for it. The swing for reckless if the change above isn't appealing. OR Really throw us a surprise and make it SA for ankle break since it now has a lingering crit effect on it. Wanna blow our minds? That's the way.

Frenzied Dash it's one of those skills that has a high cd but no good property too it besides an on the fly float. One of the best things to do to fix this is make it to where either the CD is lowered. OR grant it super armor. How it can click from awakening is have the solar flare key command or slashing to leap outta it's SA property and into either one. I think this would give not only the skill a spot on the skill slot, but also make it viable for awakening as well as succession too. With a high cooldown the property would warrent it.

Last Edit : Oct 6, 2021, 20:39 (UTC)
# 15

Warrior rework is good so far, but the problems that awk faces in order to be viable in group pvp still remains. Warrior awk has no protected cc/movement to rely on, it has no protected engage or disengage neither, the better option would be to add SA to the skill Heavens cleave so it can be used as both a good cc skill for group fights and a reposition tool. Frenzied charge change was also very good, but it needs protection and it doesnt need cc of any kind, the cooldown its fine, but it also would be a good idea to increase the cooldown of the charge if it gets super armor, it would make for a good disengage skill, wich is extremely needed for warrior to be good at group/largescale pvp.

Last Edit : Oct 6, 2021, 23:34 (UTC)
# 16

A whole lot of people are recommending that Heaven's Cleave should be a protected skill, but you have to realize that unless you want to come full circle with things going back to the LSA days, Warrior needs to have some kind of protection gap somewhere in his kit. If we don't need to strip any protections whatsoever on our engage, then we will no longer be a balanced class, and that just adds to the problem.

 

We are as it stands completely protected in a mixture of I-frame, forward guard, and super armor when playing on a backfoot. The only gap being the moment we solar flare to disengage/engage if you do not take solar as your core. This is primarily why we are a 'King' class in 1v1's. We have a grab, good movement, on-demand SA block, and virtually no gaps if you understand your matchups properly and alter your playstyle in accordance, and have good reflexes and muscle memory on the skill inputs.

 

The primary issue, at least in my opinion, and this should be our focus as warriors, is that when we do strip our protections, make ourselves vulnerable, and engage, we have such a high risk for such a low reward.

 

Our damage should reflect the risk we take in large scale scenarios, which is primarily why I don't think Warrior needs that many 'better movement protections.' He needs better damage on trading skills, and bug fixes on skills that deal inconsistent damage (reckless,) and Forward Guard or Super Armor on common skills used in distrupting groups (hence reckless.) You can make him work easily with good situational awareness, and as far as I'm concerned, he's one of the best skirmishers in the game if used in the right hands. We have excellent movement for rotating but our issue is that we have a weird amount of gaps in our actual awaken combos, that pretty much prevent most of our damaging capabilities in 1vX, not considering the reliance on down attack modifiers.

 

SA on dash, I-frame return after Solar, SA on heaven's cleave, etc, these enticing and while not necessarily outlandish ideas on paper, will unfortunately make Warrior broken in practice. It'll allow you to engage people with literally no risk at all, and that is the problem this game is facing. New classes, and one older class (Lahn) that can engage you with minimal risk whilst being able to SA trade without requiring any CCs whatsoever. If warrior seriously, really, should have a better disengage, a cooldown reduction of Solar Flare and Balance Strike by 1 second should fix the issue.

 

 

Consider the following:

 

If you solar flare to engage, your Head Chase will be on cooldown for 2 seconds.

This means you only need to dish out 2 seconds of protected damage before you can I-frame again.

You can chain an I-framed dash, and a chopping kick to create a pretty good amount of protected distance. (I-frame + Super armor)

You can chain even more super armor with the first portion of Shield tide.

We don't really need a better disengage. We have good options for disengaging, you just need to be more flexible and understanding of Warrior's kit. Most of our protections being unreliable, are artificial bugs produced from the bad netcode and the split second gaps before your protections apply when you are in the middle of a hit registration that can CC you. This is an issue that PA needs to solve on an infrastructural level for North America and EU, not necessarily a balancing issue.

If you still think Warrior needs better disengage, imagine if after chaining Chopping Kick and an I-Framed head chase, you could solar flare or balance strike again. You'd be far from any ball in a split second.

Last Edit : Oct 7, 2021, 20:26 (UTC)
# 17

1. Make head chase distance longer, or at least when skill it's not on cd, if it also has SA on cd it would be great

2. Make more skill usable in awakening mode that also keep awakening mode on, like charghing thrust (i bet warrior can run like mad with either wep equiped).

3. Block it's way to weak and melts down to fast in mass pvps, maybe add 0.5 sec invulnerability when skill is used?

4. Make awakening warrior a bit faster, it seems so slow vs everybody else... it's just to damn outdated!

5. I would rly like to play just on awakening warrior with greatsword on and not always be changed to sword shield from all variouse reasons like ridding the horse, or when i use some skills like grab that changes me to sword/shield, i mean some qualitfy of life changes that don't impact that much

6. Warcry should do something better, 5% atk/cast speed for everybody on my side would be nice or mass stiffness on enemies + another skill animation!

7. Reckless Blow - redesign this skill animation, make it more awesome, like smash the sword into ground and a explosion aoe midrange

8. Why would i ever wanna use a knee kick strike when i have a greatsword? remake the skill knee kick in something else, or at least make the kick animation more epic

 

Play Siegfried in Soul calibur and see how warrior should be like. 

 

3 36
Lv 61
Deus
Last Edit : Nov 17, 2021, 17:08 (UTC)
# 18

LAST EDIT: 11/16/2021
Hey, I'll try to be short and I'll exclusively talk about Succession Warrior. So far it's going pretty good regarding succ warrior reboot, but I personally feel there is still something that could be improved to make succ identity differ from the awakening one. Here a couple of Things I would love to see for Succ Warrior:

*EDIT*Frenzied Dash: (High priority) Make a Succession version to add either Frontal Guard or lowering the CD a bit (to 14-15 seconds).

Earth Tremor: (Low priority) Add a Bound CC, this would make it a perfect engage skill. (Or add Core skills so we have more possibilities) after bound on Ground Smash back this is no longer needed, still I'd like to see Core Skills for Succession

*EDIT 2*Shield Strike: (High Priority) revert the change (Give back Stun and Frontal Guard instead of Knockdown, we really need Frontal guard on it) and optimize the key input, make it like Flow: Overwhelm, remove the first 2 hits and make it so it activates only by pressing RMB after its flows (pulverize, spinning slash, jump slash, spin counter and so on) and make it so can be quicksloted as i said like overwhelm.

-Now onto the more hot topic for me personally:

•Upper Shield Strike: (Medium Priority) Make a Succession version where the animation is faster, increase the damage and a little bit the distance it covers.

Deep Thrust: (High Priority) Make a Succ version and increse the range and a little bit the damage and add Frontal Guard to it or ATLEAST to its flows (Jump Thrust and so on), also about the flows, speed up the animation a little bit and the distance covered, this plus the frontal guard would make it a nice semi-protected movement as we can chain with skills such as Solar Flare, Chopping Kick and so on. 

-And something I've always wanted to see as Succ Warr, the 3 real counter skills actually usable:

Furious Blow, Hilt Smash and Shield Counter: (High Priority) maybe rework how they get activated, but anyway, add Frontal guard to them and greatly increase the range of the counter attack (atleast for Furious Blow, the hardest one to activate) and increase the damage, I'm thinking in Nodewar scenarios where we Warriors would stand with our shields taking the hits for then returning them back.

*ALSO please make it so you can transition from block stance to Prime forward slash without cancelling the block first, from block stance into W+LMB directly is way smoother and less clunky than pressing Q first or another skill.

-Not gonna cover much Passives but they should work around DR absolutely.

There are more stuff surely but those were some of the more important ideas i had in mind. Have a nice one o7.

Last Edit : Oct 9, 2021, 22:42 (UTC)
# 19

I completely agree with @mercuel but the main thing that I feel succ missing is some form of disengage. Either similiar to mobile where they have the disengage or allowing to charge backwards.

Last Edit : Oct 15, 2021, 13:12 (UTC)
# 20

Have you even seen the other classes reworks how they look like? How can warrior be compared tot them? it s  totaly behind compared to mobility, speed, aoe (maybe damage too) vs everybody...

3 36
Lv 61
Deus
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