Stop lowering the skill floor for sorc. No, sorc does not need even more movement after rushing crow. She does not need awakening iframe cd removal. It's ok for the class to have weaknesses. Please learn the concept of risk vs reward in game balance

ok hellfire.... who is using this skill for damage? like actually unironically looking at hellfire and going " AYE BIG DAMAGE COMBO SKILL"
no one
if you dont like cd reduction on the basis that other classes also have high cd rabams then maybe other classes should also ask for lower cd rabams. like arnt kunos rabams like all like 40 minutes or something (obvious exageration)
as it stands i could live with or without the cd change but hellfire is so.... underwhelming is the word ill use that the 16 second cooldown just seemed excessive to me. and since this IS  a discussion on class reworks/buffs and changes i think that reducing the cd will  and add to sorcs mobility capabilities which most sorc seems to want based on present posts  (weather or not you agree that sorc needs more mobility or think its balanced is a different story tho)
as to what the new cd should be.  ngl i want an unreasonable 8 second cd.
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not wanting a vaccum on sorc?.... fair im more so saying dont give us a grab  and i would want a vaccum instead. i would prefer nova levels of toxicity rather than being a iframe grab grim bot.

Sorc Succ - gets nothing in the rework, accu kick is lost which is huge nerf! (ppl speak for awakening only)

- All skills that currently does not work (like Sinister Omen, Shard Explosion for example need rework - Insta Cast, Lock on Target, Faster, Dmg).

- SA after Iframe like Sage (not because we need it, because we deserve it!).

- Sorc need anti-grab, single skill that can be used with big cooldown (1min or so) that let you escape grab 1-time. (this is good mechnic used in other games, so classes cannot play grab only strategy and add some skills).

- Something like 10% 20% BS in Succ.

- Hadum skill in Succ

- Reflect skill or something (reflects 1 CC back to caster).

- Steal skill (steals 3 random buffs from caster), nothing gamebreaking adds more skill to the game.

- Iframe movement need to be 2-time faster to counter current hi-speed classes.

- As sorc is the slowest moving class, we need slow debuff to counter that on enemies. (if Sinister Omen is fixed that will do, in need to be done insta cast fast chasing slowing skill).

- More skills in SUCC! (something like GR, Nightmare, Crows, Bayblade hello?)

- MAKE THE SHIELD PASSIVE SKILL! Or at least give some extra on top, some AURA AOE skill something cool to make it worth the effort.

- DoD ult need to range skill like the original skill, not point blank.

- Sorc need to have DARK Damage, not MAGIC damge, and magic defence modifiers should not apply to sorcs, as the class is played in general in close range, there cannot be classes completely immune to sorc dmg. (passive + class + siege + w.e. .. 100% magic defence sure)

- Prime Version for all skills that does not have one.

- Chase movement skill.

I'd say 16s is more or less fine, you can lower it to 12 or whatever but not like it's even that crucial within the kit. You have other easy ways of maintaining FG, and now also more for movement. Imo it's just not the right direction.

People were asking for FG nukes - why not keep the cd or increase it to 20s and make the skill actually do good damage instead? Why don't people talk about the other 3rd rabam being useless (+cough 23s cd)? Or Crow Nightmare being useless (with 28s cd)?

And considering sorc is probably >the< hardest to catch class atm, I do think that giving it excessive long-distance movement will not be a good direction.

I'd way rather see utility/reworks in dead skills (sinister energy, absolute darkness, sinister shadow, bloody contract, sinister omen) and ways to deal with shield classes like succ nova, as long as it's not just raw damage.

It shows that you dont play sorc at the moment when you write something like this.

I mean you rr off it for a reason whatever it was

Sorc has no mobility past 5m², is really stuck and has to hope ppl just give up so she can get away
on the other hand lets take ninja who can just lurk in the stealth, attack you and move out of render distance in 1-2s afterwards or just drop into stealth again
Why does ninja needs such insane movement?
He is really hard to catch and can go into stealth and can still run to Narnia in 1-2s

Or take nova, they only attack you with Accel up anyway, you can hardly cc them (coz they got lsa ???) and once they unload they are instantly gone again, thanks to their insane movement


FG rushing crow isnt enough with all the mobility of other classes
Sorc needs a new movement skill she cant keep up with other classes
its depressing coz everybody can just run away from you when they chose to
nobody has to fight the sorc if they dont want to
they can just run away


tbh rework on skills might give us something but so far the skills we got which actually deal dmg are long sa skills, mostly without cc, you can hardly use to break shields or deal dmg against sa rots
sorc isnt tanky enough as a class to face trade with sa skills and we dont really have any fg skills that deal dmg to go that route or any decent heals on skills to stay in a fight

On the other hand when you look at the rework of striker and warri it might be time to give grabs to every class
we dont know yet but it looks like we come out of this reboot with fully protected classes again
which classes without a grab just cant cc and cant kill unless the devs insanely increase their dmg at which point the other classes will cry too

Dude is just here to troll 🤡

Not sure how stating it's hardest to catch would be wrong. It is in fact one of, if not the hardest one to cc if played well, which was shown quite clearly on AoA matches.

Again i do not understand why every class in your opinion (and even more so something like sorc) should zoom in long distance and how giving her more movement on top what she already got with reworks would be justified. Sorc doesn't really need to be tanky considering ability to iframe at will, and yet they have +19% eva and (now, used to be 19) 26dp with 100% uptime, which isn't nothing (and if you think - whoa, shouldn't Sorc be tankier with these? - shout at PA to delete class modifiers which are ridiculous bullshit and only make balancing harder).

And i wouldn't call GRJ a "long sa skill", it comes off faster than Guardian's nukes. I won't bother talking over Nova as i still think it's overtuned and recent nerfs were laughable, but i'm pretty sure you didn't play Ninja - his movement is filled with unprotected gaps, and tbh you can't put those 2 together, it's a false simile, setting aside that stealth is broken by virtually anything.

Again, reworking/readjusting 3 of Sorc's rabams would probably give more viable solutions. And not sure why in your opinion FG damage would suddenly be a solution. There's a ton of skills nowadays that bypass FG, not mentioning Corsairs running rampant in group pvp. 

This show you have zero knowledge on how to utilize your class's strengths and weaknesses. It's like a fish wish to fly. It's not wrong for you acting this way tho. With recent classes that they are good at everything for a month that makes people feeling old classes are useless. With the same logic Shai players shoulda protested for a grab, a big damage skill and more %pvp damage (<- if you can see how stupid this sentence is, ask yourselves what sorc's role is) 

Let me start off saying. I've played sorc for a better part of 6+ years. I've played sorc in all of her states, from the horrid Renown score days to her broken as heck Rabam1 > Rabam2 kill days. Sorc DEFFINITLY does not need power creep or MASSIVE changes. She needs a rebalance of where her DMG comes from and a way to deal with her hardcounters(Not countering the hardcounters but give her a gameplan to OUTPLAY her counters like with skill and effort you know.)

So as for the current reboot, i'm fine with most changes ecxept for 3 points.
Aside from these issues i see little reason to drasticly change her.
Oh one thing i'l say up front.
REMOVE THE IFRAME SPAM ON AWAKENING! ITS UN-NECCESSARY AND MAKES THE CLASS WAY TOO EASY!

1. The DMG from sorc should not be based upon Grim Reaper Judgement and Cartians Nightmare.
Right now sorc is pretty much reliant upon GRJ and Cartians Nightmare for most of her damage, instead what i'd like to see is more dmg on skills like Violation(which right now feels rather lackluster) and a slight nerf to Cartians and GRJs dmg. I'm not asking for Sorcs entire kit to be busted with dmg but a more steady kit of DMG would be alot better for the class.

2. Sorc's fundamental issues have always been SA/Shield classes (Mystic, Striker, Warrior, Valk, Guardian, Nova ETC) And besides this issue.

So as a sorc main all we can do against these hardcounters are wait around and bait the enemy into making a mistake. Sorc has 0 proper ways to deal with these mechanics and is usually a sitting duck (especially against the faster classes like Nova and Warrior) Yes we do have our *Just iframe kekw* mindset but keep in mind we have to stamina and shard manage alongside not getting hit by DMG and also have to keep in mind spacial awareness and in large scale more than 1 enemy. So saying *just iframe till opening* isn't going to fix this issue.

Sorc has no dmg outside 2-3 skills right now which 1 is super easily grabeable (even after the reboot) which is Cartians Nightmare.
So we cannot trade with SA classes like mystic or striker or guardian who blow up people with a few skills nor can we pretend to properly chip down someone's FG or hitting in someones back who'se in an SA FG block. So essentially sorc has no way to deal with these enemies. In my eyes i got a few potential fixes for this issue.

1. Grab

If anyone thinks giving sorc a grab will fix this issue is technically right but also very wrong.
Sorc could use the grab but that is a bandaid fix to an fundamental issue which will only end up making sorc a grab bot and ruin the entire class her identity. Why ask for a grab if u can play ninja or kuno and have a similair gameplay and playstyle.

In my eyes she could use something where for example her vile plan OR Soul harvest knock someone out of a  SA or Block with a Stiff like CC (which is a 0.5sec cc and keeps the enemy in a standing position) This way there is a technical grab yet it does not put the same amount of ease of access to the entire grab thoughtprocess.

2.Penetrations

Sorc could deal with these classes if she had an SA Penetration buff or skill. Something that would allow her to have a 30% chance on going through SA's would open up the oppertunity to deal with this issue while not making it a *haha you're SA and blocks mean nothing now* type of deal. While this is a pretty easy fix it could be easily broken and overpowered hence why i'd say a lower % chance on it going through for balance reasons.

3. FG nuke skills

Similair to Corsair pretty much.. have a way to break the enemies forward guard faster.  This would not fix the SA rotating class issue but it would open up for a lot more pressure against said classes nevertheless. Every class relies upon their FG for DMG negation. Remove partial FG recovery and u force your enemy to open up more with SA's or even unprotected mobility/dmg. (Didn't think much about this one since this is pretty self explainatory.)

3. Sorc never had a proper way to deal with Adamantines.
Alright alright i'l start with saying this isnt something that should be in REBOOT but its a troublesome issue that needs addressing nevertheless. (I'm obviously gonna explain this from a Sorc's perspective)

When 18CC's of a class her CC kit gets hardcountered and softcountered by a single crystal then there is something fundamentally wrong. 
In my personal opinion the most easy fix would be change how RBF Adamantines work or introduce a proper way where classes who struggle against a damn CRYSTAL (NOT A CLASS) can work around it. Right now the classes who struggle alot against this broken crystal have to spec into Offhand crystals(JIN Glorious Crystal of Courage - Ignore Knockdown Resistance) that only ignore 20% of Knockdowns/Knockbacks(ALONE) while not addressing the other cc resists and forcing classes to lose too much dmg from corrupted crystals. 

In my eyes a fix to this would be giving classes that rely a lot on knockdowns have knockdown penetration buffs on a skill or two. This way Adamantines aren't useless and u still need to actively create a situation where you can penetrate the adamantine resists.  Don't have it be too overpowered where its a flat 50-100% cc resist ignore or something stupid like that but idk 25% for 3-5 seconds or something.

Thank you for reading this whoever is. If it falls on deaf ears at PA then so be it but atleast i've put in my share of wishes to the class.

No CD on awa iframe might make the class easier to play in 1v1 (no need to swap to prewakening every 2 seconds) but it also makes it a lot stronger and viable in medium/large scale.

The first big thing it does is allow GRJ charge>iframe>release>iframe. That makes the grab window smaller than before, at the cost of more stamina usage. It is a very good change by itself.

It also generally makes our grab iframe reactions ~50ms faster without AD, which is huge considering grabs have priority over iframe meaning every millisecond is important.

For medium/large scale, where sorc is relatively bad, it allows to weave night crow between the SA awakened skills, making us a lot harder to burst and grab. It also helps us move around in zergs, and keep it mind large scale = low fps so swapping to prewakening (with AD's small gap) is tricky and risky to do.

We would need pretty big compensations in large scale for adding back CD on flow:night crow, and taking into consideration the rework is still somewhat underwhelming compared to the 2 meta classes's I wouldn't trust pearl abyss to do big changes to it now.

Sorc will always remain a hard class to play anyway because not having a grab means players have to learn other classes openings, force them then react and combo. It's a lot harder than grab>combo(usually always the same) like every other class.

We are also relatively squishy with mediocre damage so it will never be viable to play with a dp build.

I don't know a single player who rerolled to sorc and stuck to it in years, so I honestly don't see how making it more accessible could be a bad thing.

Bad players will spam flow:night crow and run out of stamina extremely fast anyway (try holding/repositioning GRJ and watch your stamina disappear lmao)