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UTC 21 : 11 Apr 28, 2024
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Succession Sage Suggestions 1v1/DFS/Small Scale Rework
Oct 10, 2021, 18:11 (UTC)
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1 2
Last Edit : Oct 12, 2021, 17:27 (UTC)
# 1

NOTE: OP may change as working with Succession Sage Discord on all requested changes.

 

EDIT Note: If you find these requests unbalanced or problematic and not needed for 1v1/DFS, we ask that you explain why through feedback below. We're genuinely concerned for the class and if there's alternatives to win 1v1/DFS that we're unaware of, please advise as the Succession Sage Discord has been brainstorming for months now to find ways to improve our odds after the nerfs with no meaningful compensation/modification. We're open to any and all constructive feedback and only ask if you truely do disagree with our assessments, that you please provide examples as to why. This may alter our requests, as we're simply asking for this class to be balanced, especially since reworks are inbound for classes that are already leauges better in 1v1/DFS. Thank you. 

 

 

Succ Sages #1 issue is outplay with limited viable mobility.  He's still waiting on bug fixes. From catches not firing correctly, to putting away weapons whilst hit in Super Armor Riftchain, he's struggling with a plethora of issues the community has submitted tickets for that have yet to be addressed. Following is a compilation of changes that won't necessarily make him anymore powerful in NW (Where he still struggles without a good team anyways), but will assist substantially in bringing balance to his 1v1/DFS, a glaring issue for the class not yet announced to be reworked/fixed. Following is a compilation of requests reviewed and worked on with the Succession Sage Discord. Pleasae consider the following:

 

Change Request - Prime Rift Chain: iframe 3 second CD and SA on CD. Also, 15% faster OR give it the duration of the Skill Demo. Currently the Skill Demo shows a much longer duration in the Rift and has been tested and confirmed multiple times to not line up with Demo. If this is a bug, please fix.

Change Request - Rabam Time Skip: Having spammable iframes is an issue observed during the launch of this class. However looking at Succession Sage's kit currently, it's obvious it was designed around it. To Remedy the issue of iframe not being spammable, move Energizing Thorn to a charge mechanic of Ator's Thorn. In its place, please add a 7 second CD iFrame Rabam similar to Ninja's 6 second cd Ninja Step Or Hash's dash Rabam. This would have huge ramifications for the kit, allowing for some means of outplay but being on a 7 second cd, preventing spamming. An iframe like this would provide an option for Succession Sages to close the gap when a target is CC'd as current mechanics are too slow. It also gives the Sage options to outplay other faster classes, most of which are recieving mobility buffs on glabs now. This Rabam would also assist the plight several Awakening Sages have of not having a reliable iframe. Being on a 7 sec cd, it would allow a single ifame movement and not require a return to Bolt iframe and be fairly balanced for both kits.

 

Change Request - Prime Spatial Fissure(Remove 2nd hit): Split skill so second hit is standalone. Increase 1st hit from 5->7 hits. 2nd hit becomes flow, activated by Spacebar. Can flow off other skills. 3 sec cd. Can be used off cd w/ reduced damage. 

 

Change Request - Prime: Spear Bolt: Increase execution and travel speed by 25%. Increase skill range and allow cancel for FG. ALSO, increase to 5 hits on single target. Skill should allow pocketing of other skills. i.e. Ator's Energy is cast, C triggers Spear Bolt, Atomagio can be cast upon target passthrough. Skill should function more like Awakening Sage's Aftershock skill but only single use and a 15 second cd. This change would give Succession Sage a way to engage targets without blowing Rift Chain iframe. No class should only have 1 viable option to engage, especially when a majority of their skills are melee based and slow. Also, please fix the bugs where this skill isn't triggering often AND when it does land, our best CC's STILL fire in the wrong direction.

 

Change Request - Illusion Compression: Summon like mine Sage can cast and move out of range. Holding cast keys will trigger skill immediately but not keep Sage in place for entire animation. If cast key is not held, Sage can move out of range and press cast key again to activate skill. If not auto detonated, skill will remain on field until skill off cd. If enemy player/mob approaches within cc AOE Range, skill will automatically activate. Increase 2x vacuum range while mine is live. Ends when activated by Sage player or triggered by enemy player entering range. Succession Sage is exceptionally vulnerable during casting of skills OR moving. Without a solid team to provide some form of defense, Succession Sage has minimal chances of surviving and unlike other Casters, doesn't have an instant teleport, reliable heals or utility and no summons to apply pressure. Giving the class a defensive item like the previously mentioned would make solo engagments and DFS much more manageable with Rift Chain SA.

 

Change Request - Rabams/MH: Skills speed increased 10% across the board. Without constant iframe, which the kit was designed around, Sage's skills should trigger faster.

 

Change Request - Rabams Void Blast/Gravity Rift: Skills are literally identical with Gravity Rift just being weaker. Please replace Gravity Rift stats with Void Blast and update void blast to have a knockback CC. This would differentiate the two skills and not make it just a copy paste animation with better stats.

 

Change Request - Realm of Anguish: Applies 50% movement and attack slow to enemy players ONLY while in area. Also add small 50 Pain Proc every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. This would give the class some form of utility and work with his slower kit. This skill is already laughed at by most players because the lack of damage it provides. Tickets have been submitted by the Discord to review but it's been confirmed to be working as intended. If this skill is intended to deal less damage then a Basic Attack, at least give it some form of utility. The AOE of this skill is already small and the duration already long. Adding this effect to targets that pass through would help defend objectives since Successions Sage is HEAVILY defensive in nature and reliant on other's to protect him in a majority of situations since iframe nerf.

 

Change Request - Reset: Clears debuffs from self and nearby allies while also giving 500hp back and resetting Sage skills. Being on such a long cooldown (10 min), this wouldn't cause really any issue in NW/Large Scale. If on CD, can consume Overcharge charges 1 charge = 100hp for a max of 500hp to self and allies on 2 min cd.

 

Add Request - Spatial Fissure's 2nd hit/Standalone Skill called Void Burst: Second half of Spatial Fissure should be moved to a Spacebar skill. 1467%x7 Downsmash. Useable on CD with reduced damage and no downsmash. Please make flowable off other skills.

 

The kit is very bare. It's not apparent whilst playing with a new mindset, but after logging hundres of hours grinding and in pvp, it becomes very apparent. The MH kit would improve dramatically in 1v1/DFS if it had a fast acting non-cc type melee-midrange spacebar skill like suggested above similar to DK or Hash to assist with combos. He suffers from an inability to combo quickly causing the class to lose a majority of the time even when he's succesful in landing the first CC. If downsmash fails, he's easily grabbed and punished. 307 AP w/Kutum and 30 Human Damage:

 

Last Edit : Oct 10, 2021, 20:44 (UTC)
# 2

I provided a soundtrack for your wonderful post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pct1uEhAqBQ

Last Edit : Oct 10, 2021, 21:02 (UTC)
# 3
On: Oct 10, 2021, 20:44 (UTC), Written by MxttxDxfrx

I provided a soundtrack for your wonderful post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pct1uEhAqBQ

 

So I take it, you actually think the class excels at 1v1/DFS contrast to the vast majority of streamers/tourny players?

Last Edit : Oct 10, 2021, 23:47 (UTC)
# 4
On: Oct 10, 2021, 20:44 (UTC), Written by MxttxDxfrx

I provided a soundtrack for your wonderful post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pct1uEhAqBQ

 

I think it's more suitable for you

Last Edit : Oct 11, 2021, 19:26 (UTC)
# 5

Any class should be able to defend their spot. Fact Succ Sage is so bad, you'll literally get 2-3 dfs on Arsha within an hour if you're on main. People don't even think about it. And with the massive amount of slows, it's just a pain to play it sometimes.

Last Edit : Oct 11, 2021, 19:27 (UTC)
# 6

Well structured and easy to understand post with sensible changes.

 

If it was up to me, I'd rip out half of his kit and make him an actual space time mage, but these changes would all be so good for succ sage without making him abusable for people flex with in large scale.

 

Awful what they've left him as, considering there's such a big focus on balance and making classes and pvp fair for everyone. Even shai is finally getting some attention, good for the little guys. 

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Last Edit : Oct 11, 2021, 23:48 (UTC)
# 7
On: Oct 11, 2021, 19:27 (UTC), Written by Rux

Well structured and easy to understand post with sensible changes.

 

If it was up to me, I'd rip out half of his kit and make him an actual space time mage, but these changes would all be so good for succ sage without making him abusable for people flex with in large scale.

 

Awful what they've left him as, considering there's such a big focus on balance and making classes and pvp fair for everyone. Even shai is finally getting some attention, good for the little guys. 

 

Agreed 100%, class was literally designed around a mechanic they ripped out and left with no modification. Fact people actually bumble around saying it's fine shows the lack of knowledge of a large part of the playerbase. Despite prominent streamers/tourney players literally saying it's in a bad spot, some ppl will literally downvote because they got caught by one of the worst 1v1 classes in the game lol.

 

The class suffers severly in 1v1/DFS, because the kit is obviously unfinished and missing mechanics to compensate for the nerf of it's only defensive AND mobility skill.

Last Edit : Oct 12, 2021, 21:27 (UTC)
# 8

Thing is the class still excels at meme-1-tapping players... It's hard to balance a kit around such high amounts of damage... I mean you say adding a 7s iframe wont influence largescale? By that logic removing teleport from witchards wouldnt influence our largescale either, as it is also a 7s cd iframe (kek)

 

Its the same debate us staffs have had for years to. But anyone that says "oh just add second teleport" or similar... Well, perhpas in another time, but just look at succ wiz on his release. Broken for a year.

Last Edit : Oct 12, 2021, 23:56 (UTC)
# 9
On: Oct 12, 2021, 21:27 (UTC), Written by Helegnes

Thing is the class still excels at meme-1-tapping players... It's hard to balance a kit around such high amounts of damage... I mean you say adding a 7s iframe wont influence largescale? By that logic removing teleport from witchards wouldnt influence our largescale either, as it is also a 7s cd iframe (kek)

 

Its the same debate us staffs have had for years to. But anyone that says "oh just add second teleport" or similar... Well, perhpas in another time, but just look at succ wiz on his release. Broken for a year.

 

I'll never understand why unknowldgeable ppl choose to comment without actually reading or considering that what they think is true, is actually false. No idea where this "1" tap bs comes from because I'm almost hard capped, and I still don't "1" tap. I hit harder on my Awakening Wiz, with heals and a summons too. Looks like I'm 1 tapping here...with 307 kutum and 30 human damage...I 1 tap so hard...where the hell does this bs come from? Community has a serious issue with people speaking to subjects they have no idea of. How's this 1 tapping? Mind you, I have more DP then he does too...I can literally Meteor this same player, and KO with 1 skill. I've NEVER had a single player in matched gear get "1" tapped w/ my gear...not once. I can on my Wizard and Witch though.

 

 

 

Please, show me where it's 1 shotting...I'll wait. Don't like any of these vids, link a 1v1 then. Won't find many after nerf, let alone a single one of it 1 shotting.

 

 

Last Edit : Oct 13, 2021, 01:16 (UTC)
# 10
On: Oct 12, 2021, 21:27 (UTC), Written by Helegnes

Thing is the class still excels at meme-1-tapping players... It's hard to balance a kit around such high amounts of damage... I mean you say adding a 7s iframe wont influence largescale? By that logic removing teleport from witchards wouldnt influence our largescale either, as it is also a 7s cd iframe (kek)

 

Its the same debate us staffs have had for years to. But anyone that says "oh just add second teleport" or similar... Well, perhpas in another time, but just look at succ wiz on his release. Broken for a year.

 

To be fair, any meaningful change to a class is going to have some effect on large-scale, whether the class ends up lasting longer, moving better, or being able to trade with others. If someone was to break down the key areas where succ sage falls down, it'd look something like this:

 

- Unable to escape due to having the games slowest SA dash every 2/3 rifts, or gets body blocked/grabbed/instantly shredded due to collision and squishiness. SA rift chain is hilarious when hit with one of the games many aoe slows. (Which this time-themed caster doesn't have) 

 

- Unable to trade due to being slow, glass regardless of dp AND largely unprotected in a predominantly melee kit. 

 

- Unable to maintain safe distance due to slowness and lack of ranged skills. 

 

Please point me towards a class which has that much going against them and I'll give them my sympathies. If you fix those kinds of problems on any class, their nw/large-scale performance is gonna tilt substantially.

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