Thank you Nano for this post ! 

There is just one thing I would like to develop concerning the Fortune's Blessing suggestion.

As most tamers would agree, the gameplay becomes obviously way funnier when Heilang: absorbtion is used. Personaly I think that the movement speed buff we get from this skill could be implemented as a permanent passive skill and removed from Heilang: absorbtion. Being able to move around faster would help the class in many ways : from PvE to large scale PvP, without overly impact 1v1's. This would allow a tamer to escape without having to move around buildings like a real strategist and will allow her to acomplish her tasks more efficiently in 15v15+ PvP, knowing that it is easy to catch up on a tamer while using damage skills.

A last thing I would like to add would be to consider a rework of the skill Stretch Kick that cannot be used if the tamer plays awakening because the s+f input conflicts with Cloud Ride that has priority on Strectch Kick. Thus, I think it'd be interesting to make it so we can bind it to other keys and rework this skill as a protected damage skill (which is what would tamer need) that can be fluidly implemented in combos, instead of an unprotected and slow float.

Thank you again for this great post !

Shiga, thank you for the support !!

I really like that idea of transferring the movement speed buff effect from Heilang: Absorb to our passive as a permanent boost. I think it would also remove the power this superbuff has over our kit, and make us less reliant on it to be aggressive in our movement.

Your comment about Stretch Kick is interesting - although I don't really think it should be a damage skill, changing it's skill input or making it hotbar-able would be great; and a protection on such a slow float would be quite nice QoL for Preawakening and Succession as different CC options. I think a Frontal Guard would match it's animation, if this were to be implemented in my opinion ~

Really appreciate the spotlight Tamer is getting at the moment. So might as well speak our minds on the matter.
Tamer as a whole seems to have lost the popularity vote by many other classes. Mainly due to the average grind. Now I personally don’t like grinding on Tamer much, so I rather leave that to the PVE Tamers who do that more. However, PVP, I’ve been doing that with tamer since its launch preawake. And over the course of the years, I personally noticed other classes excel in greater feats than what tamer can do. And as more classes increase, the more she’s placed as a "Class of the Past". So, I want to Thank the Devs and Teams for taking a good look on the much-needed Tamer of BDO. Below are my own personal suggestions that could make the class a lot more enjoyable within the pvp aspect. Every other Tamers opinion matters in this, but as Nano posted, it is the majority of the Tamers Feedback. I'm no less inputting my own.


Issue regarding Tamers Survivability,

Iframe on the skill "Cloud Ride" sustained her within all areas of gameplay. Primarily, in my experience, PVP. Largescale mainly contains AOE filled classes with too much Damage being tossed left and right with no actual precision, against a Melee low HP Tamer the Gameplay is far too difficult to gain positive k/d. The Iframe provided an area of Escape. Tamer does not have a solid escape without getting damaged. The change to Super armor within the Skill made it clunky as a whole and made the Tamer glitch back and forth or hitting imaginary walls or getting "Stuck" in the air when a Vacuum is placed. It’s not ideal.

Playing Tamer among other classes, I realized her ability to Siphon from Mobs and other players would be on the poor side. It would further help the Tamer "Stay in Gameplay" a lot longer thus making it more enjoyable to play if the HP Values where higher in the skills Echo pierce and along with Beast Rampage, Fearful Trembling. I personally had issues where I could not keep up with other classes via pve grinding together, because the Siphoning ability for Tamer would not be enough. Comparatively to other short sword classes, Tamer's ability to get HP back is lack luster and would help tremendously via both PVE and PVP.

The Q Block for Tamer could prove to be a help if the skill "Rain Curtain" had a higher Value for the DP it gives. As AP increases in the game as a whole and Gear score goes up, the DP Value for Tamer's Rain curtain proves to be outdated. I believe majority of Tamers would agree on the DP value itself having zero to any effect at all. Additionally, when you hold the Block, it would prove to help the class's survivability by having a HP regen for a few seconds to add Sustainability to Tamer.

Lastly her Passive and ability to recover Stamina. The Passive Fortunes Blessing as a whole is completely outdated, another overwhelming feedback that Tamers agree on. Instead of the passive providing her Weight increase +25LT and HP +50, it would help so much more if she was provided higher HP Values. Perhaps when leveling from lvl 59 to 64. +100, +150, +200. Of course, these are modest numbers but I'm sure you get the Idea. Along with the HP value, another passive that would prove to help the Shortsword Class is movement speed increase. Since the classes dynamic and identity is more Assassin driven, movement speed would help her not only Get around Via PVE and PVP, but the Gameplay would prove to be quicker in pace. I'm sure most play tamer based on the flashy skills and fast gameplay.

For Stamina regen, I don’t necessarily find stamina consumption a very huge issue with Tamer, ultimately it boils down to Stamina management. However, it would further provide an easier gameplay for Tamer players if the Stamina was recovered, not fully, but a quarter by the move Fearful Trembling, or any other move for that matter. It would mainly help her being able to KEEP up with pushes, fights via skirmishes, and extra room for evasion movement to help her live that much longer.

Finally, additional assistance for the Tamer is needed. I only speak comparing her to other classes. The Speed of Tamer being considered a shortsword assassin is lack luster. essentially, the movement speed and attack speed can be much faster than what’s already issued. In my experience playing her sister class Kunoichi, I realized that her abilities for a shortsword user is much faster, and the skills flow a lot smoother into each other. Going back to Tamer, it was noticeable that she cannot keep up especially to a new player. My thoughts on this issue are that, it would be helping her by buffing miscellaneous skills such as her Flow:"Leap" That allows her to double jump. Additional Buff would be movement speed increased by 10% or more. This is equivalent to Kunoichi's Flow, "Sky Stepping".  Tamer's Skill "Stretch Kick", could also have additional buff with increased attack speed 10% or more. These are simply ideas; however, the additional buff would be something that can help the Tamer class to be largely desired as for Gameplay for both PVP and PVE.

Damage, Protection, and Area of Effect.

First, throughout the course of the years Tamers have received a fair share of nerfs and changes in modifiers. Due to the community not liking her ability to put down damage. Which is understood, to an extent. As the nerfs were left there and time went on throughout the years, the stagnation of the class and neglect of the skills made the Class as a whole undesirable. As the priorities shift from the older classes to the newer classes the effect of Damage or protections from 2017 vs 2021, comparatively made Tamer take a backseat as other classes excelled in a more supreme gameplay both small and largescale pvp. This is the issue.  However once again, thank you guys for taking a look into the class entirely to make the changes needed for us.


The AOE skill within All around spinner, is needed to be bigger. The Class is Melee, that is understood. However, the tiny frame that the class already possess and the small ability does not compensate each other. Many Tamers complaints are that they feel that they need to be "Right on said target, to lay down damage. Otherwise DPS is lost."  This is an overwhelming truth. If possible, also, the Damage to All around spinner has been nerf over the years. And through many older Tamers who played for years, also complain about the skill itself being useless in the PVP aspect. Again, I cannot speak much for PVE. The AOE will prove her Gameplay in large scale combat more worthy and acceptable to many guilds, and the players enjoyment of the class.

Another skill related to the Damage output is the Rabam skill Resonance. Thank you Devs for putting such a lovely skill within the kit of the tamer. It was well needed; however, an adjustment is needed ever since the nerf occurred for the skill. The skill unfortunately does not do the expected damage for a "Rabam" skill. High Geared 295 AP Tamers and Higher also make complaints about the skill needing to hit harder Along with the Bolt wave & Jolt wave even. In my opinion the previous nerf for the said skill was needed, but the values that were chosen for the nerf was far too low, which crippled the skill as "Filler" Damage.

Celestial Slam seemed to be a Great addition to the awakening kit, a new skill that did good damage. Thank you for the additional skill! However, I regret to inform that the skill's AOE is not big enough. Another issue with the said skill is that the Downsmash that happens at the end of the skill pushes the said target away from the Tamer's already small AOE. Which makes it difficult for the tamer to lay down damage if the downsmash laids. So, what we had to resort is wasting a skill to get closer in order to lay damage down and continue the combo. Once again going back to the Lack of AOE in her skills which makes her undesirable and clunky at times, needing to do out of the ordinary skills to compensate for a Gameplay issue. Another issue is that Celestial Slam is not capable of cancelation. This alone makes the Gameplay of Tamer as said before clunky and out of ordinary to the identity of the Class. Tamers faster Gameplay allows the user to cancel out of majority of the skills which further drives the notion of Assassin to the class. But not being able to cancel out of a damaging skill in our kit, ALONG with no added protection leaves her to be a sitting child in harm’s way. Please allow the skill to be canceled, if not provide protection to the said skill. If not that, why not both Protection and Cancel? I'm being modest.

Tamer's Lack of protected damage is what secondhand makes her undesirable in Nodewars/Seige/ Large PVP combat. The ability to CC along with the companion, Heilang, allows for her to do her said job. However, the frustration is the inability to execute and finish the job at hand in largescale pvp. The unprotected damage makes her in an unfortunate position which gets her easily killed since the protection is not there. I'm talking about Beast Rampage. The skill being buffed is a big help for the Tamer, once again, the feedback is sort of "Mixed" with it, but majority do speak on the regards of "No proper protection on high damaging skills." If the protection is there, the Tamer can FULLY complete her task in not only providing CC, to incapacitate the target, but finish the job by executing it. Unfortunately, it’s difficult for tamer to lay down damage when other classes are throwing aoes disrupting the Tamer from even providing Damage herself when unprotected. It needs to be adjusted.

Goodluck, And Thanks again.

Very comprehensive and concise list that I fully agree with, great post Nano!!!

Encouraging that your list made it into the hands of our ambassadors/GMs on console, I do hope PA gets a chance to read and consider it in earnest.

It is becoming clear to me, speaking from the Awakened Tamer perspective:

1. Tamers basically agree on what they will consider reasonable and sufficient reworks.

2. What we still want is in a sense pretty trivial - move around some of what we already have or just got, make new skills for "the cancel class" cancellable, and put iconic pieces of the kit that fell off back on the table - broadly:

  a) iconic skills like Reso, Cloud Ride, and Spinner should reclaim some of their former glory;

  b) modest adjustments and switching the skill in question for AoE/damage/cc/protection reworks, to better meet the intention;

  c) more recently introduced skills should be cancelled the way we cancel everything else, let Tamer be Tamer!

3. PA is on a QoL changes roll, and we all want to see that magic touch hit to the final unused, or uduly awkward pieces of our kit.

Some things from this post I agree with 110% and didn't think/hear about before:
1. Rabam skills in particular shouldn't be dead weight in any class kit, but Lightning Burn and Legendary Beast's Claw are close to it as they are. Absolutely should be cancellable at some point in the animation, faster, and/or flow together such that burn into beast claw shortens the gap in SA by some amount. Whatever is done, it does not need to be much - we like the idea of these skills and currently try to use them, but they get us killed or caught so we're forced to stop. They have no PvE use case, while their partner Rabams do - so let them be viable in PvP and it would be easy to do that.

2. "Please make rank III of Evasion have the same Invincibility effect in all directions when the Tamer chooses the Succession." - genius. I can't stand playing succession in the state it's currently in - it lacks the dynamic movement and control feeling of playing awakening, and even for 1.5x the income with half the effort and less RSI pain, I just can't. I've tried. ^^^THIS ^^^ would solve that completely. Given the stamina cost and existing ability to camera turn, it would hardly impact PvP especially with the roaring spam nerf, while being a much more satisfying thing to do and to counter. Other classes are already pretty good at timing our WW landing to catch us unprotected, and that would apply here.

3. The +20dp buff that is already on Rain Curtain should apply immediately to fit with our playstyle. The skill effects of Heilang: Beserk on the other hand don't fit with our playstyle, and should instead increase some element of Tamer's offense as Nano stated. Consider increasing the damage of Heilang during this buff by a significant amount, and consider having Heilang perform a "teleport" follow-up attack when either Beserk, or Absorb Heilang is cast. The long cooldowns of these skills should make such a thing trivial in terms of overall power, but very useful in combination with the new design of Void Lightning.

4. Legendary Beast's Dance really does need to find itself in some way. I don't use the SA core skill modifier, so maybe I'm missing something - but it feels like this is a beautifully animated skill whose only use I have found comes with the fact that attack-mode Heilang will teleport to the enemy and do the follow-up attack if you have them in your crosshair - which is a frickin' nice change, good job. Maybe we get to swap places with Heilang if he's in range, Jujitsu Kaisen style, or Heilang does his follow-up attack so distance in the direction of the A/S/D/W key if there is no target? Open season on this one, more in the direction of nice-to-haves.

The only thing I want to bring up that I didn't see in this post, is my personal desire to see our accelerated moonlight strike into full moon sequence after awakening floats come back. That took a while to get down, and it feels so snappy and satisfying to do even though it only does a little bit more damage, a little faster. The new Flow: Full Moon skill effects are nice, but I'm not particularly impressed with the animation - more neutral to it - whereas even if "accel" is dead, I want the animation of Flow: Full Moon to remain as is because it looks absolutely great the way it is. I would loop into the suggested change of the key input for Flow: Full Moon, maybe the old Flow: Full Moon can remain and the new flow just be a new flow, and dealt with separately.

Great to see all the ideas, and every time I read somebody reaffirming that we need that iframe on cloud ride I hate to admit that I get a little bit thirsty. Just give in, PA. Please. We love you.

- Gunrocks

Pretty good suggestions, 100% agree. Would also add make throat burn cancellable.

Very nice coverage and review of everything overall on this post~ Very happy to see this post as well as the previous thread created by Domo, a lot of great constructive cristicism/suggestions/gratitude presented here which is very lovely to see~ \(^0^)

Additionally, thank you for very much Tamer Discord community for incoporating Soaring Arts into your suggestions, I was happily suprised to see this inclusion and I can't be more grateful. Orz, I'm also very honored by the suggested skill name Phoenix Slice recognizing "Phoenix"  (the common prefex I used for a good majority of the air techniques I presented in my initial video) and "Pinion Slice" is the exact term I came up with to refer to specifically when Throat Burn is used in the air when I presented the concept of Soaring Arts to the community in my first video. This was written with such kindness and consideration, thank you. ♥

Lastly, one thing I did feel the need to point out/it seems it may have been over looked is concerning Prime: Roaring. Although the Prime: Roaring on live servers has a cooldown time of 20 seconds and has the longest cool of any forward guard skill in the succession kit, on global labs I believe that the cooldown was changed to 10 seconds instead, making Global Labs Prime: Surging Tide & Prime: All Around Spinner the longest forward guard skill cooldown at 12 seconds.

But yupadoodle, great compliation and excellent conversation everyone~

Aaaah, that's what I forgot!

Leap and Soaring Arts have been mentioned, so I was wondering : could the current limitations on Leap be removed (can only be used once, even though we can trick this limitation with other skills) and replaced by an increasing stamina cost for each successive Leap made without landing (increase which would not be reseted by other skills, or it would be too easily ignored)?

It would make sense with the Air Lightning change, and allow tamer to bomb oponents from above (with this skills or the others we can manage to trigger during Soaring Arts) and maybe gain some new possibilities in large scale pvp?

Not to mention that Throat Burn has been heavily changed with this rework, so it could be a good alternative.

Can't verticality be a new possibility for tamers under these conditions, or am I forgetting an important possible abuse that would come with it?

Edit : new things I forgot

 - Instead of a weight related passive skill, can't we have a jump height passive? ^^

- I always thought that Cloud Stomp did not "stomp" enough, not in term of damages but in term of animation speed, and that's why tamers are so easily caught during this skill. Without any change to its protection, wouldn't this skill be better if the rising part was simply faster? (*stomp* - - > Tamer in orbit ^^) 

Although I think this a very interesting idea Sadalsuud and I love your open minded perspective of thought, I think the key here lies, as you said yourself, how Soaring Arts currently works which is being able to cycle through other skills properly and then use leap off of them when needed. I think being able to leap in sucession simply by pressing space could definitely cause some abusive issues and take away from the focus of other things Tamer as a whole might need although it sounds fun in theory!~

I agree this could be an interesting alternative if old throat burn was completely removed but also if old throat burn (Phoenix Slice) does replace flurry of kicks, as Nano's post smartly suggests, then even utilizing the wonderful Air Lightning changes/other target heilang effect skills would be made nicer like you said and would also open up a world of even deeper possibilities for large scale pvp for sure (as Soaring Arts already does~ \(^0^)) Verticality + the new changes = a lot more possibilities without a doubt.

Although this is nice for Tamers who choose to practice Soaring Arts I do think it's more important to consider what's best for the majority of the Tamer population whom does not practice these techniques and I believe it would be unfair to them to forego other potential changes to their large scale kit & push them to rely more on verticality which could require the use of more specified gears paths (slotting ascensions for example), slightly more ping reliant mechanics, and a complete change in the base movement of the class for large scale. I believe that being able to keep the original Throat Burn old animation in addition having the improved Glabs throat burn as suggested would already be very sufficient in expanding upon the potential creation of all different kinds of creative Tamer fighting styles and allows for harmony from both perspectives.

I'm glad you noticed, I thought the name would be a nice homage to your creativity and a polite nod towards, we are all playing the same class and should all be united. I am glad you saw my thoughtful intention. Teehee !

I agree with your following post that Soaring-Arts shouldnt be a forefront, but also shouldnt be forgotten - I truly hope they bring the old Throat Burn back into the kit elsewhere while keeping the new one too.
Also, I totally overlooked the cooldown of Allround spinner, thanks for the correction! Derp..

Yodajade, Gunrocks, Rubydrag;

Thank you for your support ! 
Yodajade and Gunrocks;

I see a lot of agreement in what we are all asking for. I hope this shows the Tamer development team that there is a possible strong direction for the class in it's reworked state and that they consider these suggestions so that the kit can be unified by our feedback. 

Sadalsuud;

As ScarletSeraph noted, I think this would be an interesting change but not a necessary one.

I do not want to partake in gatekeeping behaviours but I think the 'trickiness' of Soaring-Arts is what makes it so attractive to Tamers. Having a simplified chainable Leap skill removes the complexity and endangers the additional flourishes and cancels that people have found for the existing techniques. The tradeoff for being up in the sky is your ability to stay there, and weigh the risks of doing as such.

I didn't want this particular thread to become a Soaring-Arts thread as there are greater matters at hand but your inputs are really valuable! However I do think there are 'bigger matters' to be seen to for now. If we can get the old Throat Burn back, I think it's telling that they may listen in the future.