Hi everybody,

With this topic I would like to give my ideas and feedback in order to improve DK. I am going to talk exclusively about succession as I do not play awakening seriously, the playstyle is very different and, since I am not maining it, I don't think I am suitable to give a proper feedback on it.

I played BDO for roughly 2 years, I picked up DK as first class and already post nerf. I do some PVE but I am not interested very much in it, plus I think the extension in AoE are already a good improvements. What I would really like to see improved is our PVP capabilities, a thing in which DK succession falls quite behind compared to most classes, without transforming us in the newest broken class, but in a HIGH RISK-HIGH REWARD class, which is not what she is currently. I am the opposite of a fotm reroller and I will still main DK even if the rework doesn't solve our problems.

Disclaimer: I am aware in BDO community Dark Knight is still addressed as the broken class it was before I started playing the game and there is the belief that she does deal absolute broken damage. Damage wise I wouldn't complain too much when playing succession, but most of that damage is dealt when the enemy is ALREADY grounded or cced, and here where it comes the unbalance.

If you never mained seriously DK succession in PVP, refrain to complain about it like some mediocre streamer, keep reading and test things yourself.

DK succession CANNOT KITE.

My feedback will mainly be based on 1 VS 1, as in large scale there are a lot of more factors to consider, such a positioning and the choose of targets. DK Succession is not a main platoon class and will still need to pick small fights, so talking in terms of 1 vs 1, the basis of pvp, makes more sense if we want to give a proper feedback on the class.

MAIN PROBLEM OF DK SUCCESSION IN TERMS OF PVP:

the complete lack of tools against SA shields/perma SA classes

This is what many DK struggle against, desperately. It's not just a matter of getting good or getting more gear, it's just a completely unfair matchup against any of the following: Warrior (both specs), Valk (both specs), Guardian (both specs), Nova (both specs, as awa nova can still SA Block), Striker (both specs), Mystic (both specs). These classes should never lose against a succession DK unless massively outplayed or outgeared, and EU is mostly these classes in pvp scenario.

Main problem against shield is that they can simply hold the block forever, while DK succ wil burn her cds. Going to their back and perform high damage skill is not viable, as they can easily turn around and, most of the time, fast grab you while we perform our stationary skills, as they're the ones dealing damage. DK succession will never be able to break block as corsair, unless overgearing your opponent by a good margin. Try it yourself...

We also strongly suffer against classes who can rotate SA infinitely while ccing AND dealing damage, especially gauntlets due to our lackluster it, class modifiers, their extremely high tankiness, built in magic dp and our extremely low defense, resulting in those actually dealing a massive lot damage to us than we do to them. What an average gauntlet can do is to charge a dk and the match is as easy as won already, very very easy. A good DK will be able to punish grab every now and then (now, before the rework, but won't anymore after it) but keep in mind that to punish a grab is much more difficult than performing one, also due to grab having priority over iframe in desync. Plus they can just linger SA, keep their grab and as soon as we perform any skill, insta grab us. It feels like an actual joke and the only moment in which we have a chance is get a lucky cc in one of the gaps. A DK succession can still win, only if the striker/mystic is bad. A top striker should never lose against a top DK.

Even worse scenario against a Nova succession or any other block classes really.

I suggest the devs testing these matchups or organise a tournament with the winners of AoA to fight between different classes. All these problems will clearly show.

Since our skills require to be in grab range, other protected grabbers like Berserks have an easy time against us usually.

That being said, even other "assassins like" classes such ninjas, lahn, tamers, kuno, ash awa have a strong tool against us which we do not have, while not having much in exchange. Yes, we have good accuracy passives and good burst mobility, things other classes have too, WHILE having also a grab.

This is the main reason DK successions is not played in pvp  and the reason why we fall much behind to be relevant. No openings against classes perma protected, while new classes (and some of the old) all have good passives, mobility, damage AND a grab. While we do not get any relevant tool to help us against the current meta, in exchange.

PLEASE PA FIX THIS.

While I am not asking for a DASH->GRAB function, I want to really stress we do need one function to solve the problem written above. This could be a reasonably difficult grab to land, or one which can be triggered after a combination of skills/conditions and with a fairly long cd. Spammable grab shoudn't be a thing at all in the game in my opinion. It should not be protected.

Some quick ideas for a possible grab function:

- Normal melee E similar to Awakaned ranger, long cd, not protected, risky, slower than rangers' one as overall I think DK succ has a better kit in terms of proctection/movement, which alas doesn't solve give any solutions for the problems written above. A grab which should be used to counter, not to engange spam;
- A ranged grab quite difficult to land, with high cd, no protections;
- Grab from Imperious command. Imperious is a useless skill as it is now. It is mapped on E and it would make a perfect grab, if tweaked properly. A quick idea could be to land unveiled dagger 3 times, a close ranged, stamina consumer unprotected skill on a target. That target gets 3 levels on Imperious command mark, even while in SA. If 3 marks are placed, then we can perform our grab with Imperious Command. It would be a difficult grab to land, cool to see and unique to the class, far from broken. Kinda like Soi Fon from Bleach anime, to give a concrete example. A risk gameplay for a good reward, not just E to win;
- Bomb/Grab from Luscious Snare: Luscious snare places a stun trap in the ground, 18s cd. The thing is, many people just move permanently protected, especially our worst matchups written above. Why not making it work like this: a AoE grab (applicable on 1 target, or many if 100% BSR skill) triggered through another skill, when certain conditions are met. An example could be: trap placed in the ground with luscious (where we can see), needing to mark the target with imperious Command, when target is near the trap, Corrupt Ground to detonate it and targets get grabbed from the ground.

These are just few ideas, the former two being very minimal but still functional, the latter being very cool, unique while still difficult to land, which would not break other matchups or the game itself and require planning while playing.

This is what DK Succession really needs. PA can even add all sort of things, but if this point mentioned above is missed, all the rest will be quite useless. This is our main problem when it comes to pvp. Give us this and the rest is just contour, which I will now go through quickly, but still please, the above part is what if REALLY IMPORTANT.

Other secondary problems, but nice to have:

- Better passives: while playing other classes during different seasons, I could not see how other classes' passives make much more sense than ours. Please buff them up or at least change them to something more meaningful. Having +13 DP on block is quite pointless on DK, or why +10% movement speed when striker gets around 30%? Or again why unveiled buff last only 5 seconds? It's quite frustrating to keep it on. Please rework all the passives in a more meaningful way, on similar level of other classes.

- Better DP scaling: while DK succession is a full melee class, it is also one of the most squishy ones. No Evasion or DR passives at all, resulting in SA trades generally unsustainable. Do you see now "DK dealing massive damage" is not really that true or simple? A guardian would deal more damage than us when trading to each other, since we are much more squishy than them. Again, I am not asking to make DK succession the new striker, but at least give us some defense stats. 380 dp people still get killed in less than 5 skills if not tapped, while in SA.

- Airstrike Iframe is non existent

- Overall better debuffs to opponent, including a slow

- Some useful BSR skill (written above there is a possible idea)

- Better Rabams: apart from Shadows Strike, the other are all useless. Balanced strike is fine, only if the cd wasn't 35 seconds. It's kinda a fake Iframe and an escape tool more than anything. Second rabams are completely used and only a "please kill me" buttons.

- Spirit Legacy: please give full damage, no protection when in cd

Rethink all our useless skills, just as you did with Repeated Annihilation. Here's a list:

- Sudden attack

- Stinger

- Darkness Burst

- Corrupt Ground: good thing it is faster, but still useless as unprotected and not very meaningful to be used anyway, unless you give a function as written above; in that case it would be high risk, high reward skill

- Spirit Satiation: please give a proper cure, this one is completey useless and too slow

- Scarring Slash

- Air Shadow bullet, it's just a meme

- Split Second: please give fg also while attacking. Right now it makes more sense to keep it locked as it's really short range and unprotected while attacking, usually getting cced when using it

- Imperious Command: useless now. Please give it a funtion as stated above or similar.

- Vedir's Dogma: the most useless skill of the whole DK toolset. Please rework it to something useful or completely remove it. Maybe some passive when it's on or some cooler fuction/debuffs to the opponent

Feedback on reworked skills (for succession):

All DKs appreciate finally having split Iframes. This was a thing due from the beginning really.

New nocturne is finally a proper blockjump. Normal nocturne attack was more an escape tool than anything else, so well done.

It's good to finally having better AoEs for Lunacy, Wheel and Corrupted.

Very good changes to Kama, which now in live servers even a sloth can dodge, especially when used in Nocturne.

Pretty good changes to Obsidian ashes and smokey haze as well

Airstrike flow is cool to see, but completely unprotected after the unprotected part of airstrike, so useless as it is now.

Conclusions

Rework changes when it comes to Succession DK are nice, but apart from split Iframes, they are only nice things to have an not essential to solve the main problems DK succession has in the PVP scenario. PVP wise DK succession will be just as bad as it already is if the main problem is not solved. Please PA, really put attention to what I wrote in the first part and come with a proper solution, possibly without just simply giving us a DASH Grab spammable and protected, as such a thing should never have been implemented in the game.

I know many people who not play DK think she is OP. Please, before putting this post down, go and play DK Succession seriously, main her and not only do 2 RBFs and saying she's op. Try the matchups I stated above on similar gear level, which is what basically everyone plays in EU, and you will agree with me. If you want to add something, do it only with proper arguments and logic. We can insult each other in discord, so better to keep this space tidy in order to help developers make it better.

If some other DK wants to add anything, please do but remember this is a DK SUCCESSION post, the awakened version will possibly need different solutions, which you can argue in another post.

We all know BDO is a nice game but currently it is a huge waste of potential, as it could be a great game. Actually balancing pvp in these terms will help a lot in my opinion.

well done my friend !

Thank you MiDKnight for your Input and agreeable Ideas.
Regarding our useless Skills here are some Suggestions.

Split Second:
Is a really useful skill for Close Combat to block and maybe CC.
(Example https://youtu.be/ZXFv432ZIto?t=178)
Still... most of the time you end up dead...
Suggestion:
- Forward Guard while attacking
- Bit more range
- Faster animation

Air Shadow Bullet:
As Knight of Light, you can not renounce this Skill
(Example https://youtu.be/ZXFv432ZIto?t=204 )
Suggestion:
- Increase Movement Distance
- Iframe until landing
- -20-30% Movement speed
- More Dmg
- Air Shadow Bullet & Shadow Bullet should use the same Skill Add-on

Shadow Bullet:
Close Combat is where you smite the Wicked therefore this is an appreciated Skill
(Example https://youtu.be/ZXFv432ZIto?t=222 )
Suggestion:
- Forward Guard
- -20-30% Movement speed
- More Dmg

Spirit Satiation:
Best Flex you can do mid Combat...
Suggestion:
- Forward Guard
- More HP pre sec
- Flow into Nocturne or be able to heal and use Dusk to evade while healing

Imperious Command:
We all dream of a Snapkill...
Suggestion:
- More Dmg on Snap
- For every Mark gain 1 extra projectile for Shadow & Air Bullet
- For Obsidian Ashes each Mark lets the projectile grow in size and the Skill gains 1 maximum target or AOE increase per Mark

Vedir's Dogma:
Next Flex you can do... Let it shine
Suggestion:
- While active get X% Shield Shred Buff and -X MP pre X sec

My Best Regards
Syvalya - Iron Lord of the Ironlight

I love the feedback!  

You're right, the hardest things to fight are these permenantly protected, SA-FG classes. The Succession DK playstyle seems to be, "find an opening and punish the enemy for it" and so if an opponent has no opening, then we have no opportunity.  Some other classes have grabs to force their own openings, or are sufficiently protected themselves to just "stand up and trade damage" right in the enemy's face, breaking the enemy before they break themselves, but Succession DK cannot really do those things.  

I guess that's fine in theory, but in practice, in today's Black Desert, a class that cannot make their own opening has a very very very difficult battle. I don't like the idea of every class having a grab, but can't help but wonder - maybe getting our version of a grab is the only real solution to these problems in 1v1. 

Thanks for the answer.

Yeah unfortunately, today most classes are either permaprotected or have very little timeframe to be punished, while DK succ has plenty. True, we do damage but most of that damage is burst, not sustained and when the enemy is already grounded, which cannot happen, since the occasions to punish them are so few and so little, if any at all. Just boosting damage wouldn't solve the problem as then the few fair matchups like against sorc or bladers, we would do too much to them. We need a mechanic to break into SA, and unless PA makes up a new one now, the only available one is a grab. It doesn't have to be breainead or spammable or protected, but it has be to there. Even the threat of having it would change the playstyle of our opponent.

REMINDER FOR DEVS/GM: read the post above 😁